Guileless GULLANE 3

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean, thanks.
This episode of the winter tour is painful to me -- we're going to have 20 cm of snow today.
PS -- next time there's a thread about 'aesthetics vs playability' or one about 'bunker shapes vs bunker location' I'm going to post some photos from Gullane #3. 
Peter

[Niall C]

David


Thanks for explaining that. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

David

Thanks.  It would be a shame to mess with those 6 house side holes. Is the kids area really more important than a real course kids can play (#3)?

Ciao

Sean


I'd argue that the kids course is just as important as no. 3, and probably adds more to the ambiance and character of Gullane. However I think the real question you should be asking is whether lengthening the range is better than buggering about with good architecture.


Niall

[Sean_A]

David

Thanks for explaining that. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

David

Thanks.  It would be a shame to mess with those 6 house side holes. Is the kids area really more important than a real course kids can play (#3)?

Ciao

Sean

I'd argue that the kids course is just as important as no. 3, and probably adds more to the ambiance and character of Gullane. However I think the real question you should be asking is whether lengthening the range is better than buggering about with good architecture.

Niall

Niall

I was thinking the first six holes could be formally used as a children's course.  Maybe you are right though. The children's area is free and a walk up facility.

I don't really question the enhanced practice facility. This sort of thing is a trend I don't see stopping anytime soon.  In the modern world it is easy to see why a club would pursue such a thing.  The club will still be able to charge green fees for #3, make money from the practice area and keep the pros happy. It just seems a shame to me that very good golf is sacrificed for an area which prepares one to play on a good course.  It doesn't make sense to me from a pure golf PoV.   

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Could someone please post photos of the 2nd half / green of the current 18th hole?

Don't see any on this thread and sounds like I will miss it in May.

EDIT: Forget that - I see the photo now. Don't know how I missed it but looks like that green will be quite a loss.

[Niall C]

Sean


I'm pretty sure the kids course works the same as NB in that adults only allowed if accompanied by a kid.


In terms of the range, do they really need the additional yards ? Maybe a handful of the first class players might get to the back of it (210 yards at the shortest point to 280 yards at the longest). If you then move the tee back to the back of the practice chipping gree (R.I.P.) you can add on another 40 yards.


Maybe the pro's can do it regularly but then again when they visit they can hit up the first on no. 2.


Ally


The 18th green is a fairly average two tier green on probably the least interesting bit of land on the course. The green and the bunkering complex give the hole whatever interest it has. It wouldn't necessarily be a huge loss to lose this hole however it's the loss of the other holes that would be the biggest shame.


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Niall,


The 18th green doesn’t look too average from the angle of Sean’s photo. It appears very attractive with what looks like a strategic bunker arrangement.


Perhaps from the line of play (30 degrees to the left?), it isn’t quite as striking?


Hopefully James Edwards will build a fitting replacement.


Ally

[Sean_A]

Sean

I'm pretty sure the kids course works the same as NB in that adults only allowed if accompanied by a kid.

In terms of the range, do they really need the additional yards ? Maybe a handful of the first class players might get to the back of it (210 yards at the shortest point to 280 yards at the longest). If you then move the tee back to the back of the practice chipping gree (R.I.P.) you can add on another 40 yards.

Maybe the pro's can do it regularly but then again when they visit they can hit up the first on no. 2.

Ally

The 18th green is a fairly average two tier green on probably the least interesting bit of land on the course. The green and the bunkering complex give the hole whatever interest it has. It wouldn't necessarily be a huge loss to lose this hole however it's the loss of the other holes that would be the biggest shame.

Niall

Niall

For me it's a no brainer not to muck up the house side six holes for an expanded range. But from a land use/monetary PoV it makes sense. #3 has a very minor reputation which will likely not take a hit that will result in reduced green fee revenue. Its all part of clubs being managed more like businesses more so than in the past. Plus, I think the concept of good practice facilities is an idea spreading from the US. The game is becoming increasingly more technical and that requires technical advice and a ground which enhanced these optics. It's not a trend I like, but I'm an old man.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean


I think you are falling into the trap of looking at it from the overseas visitors POV. Gullane 3 gets an awful lot of local traffic from non members. Its affordable and its fun and it has the very great advantage that it near enough never gets closed due to the weather. As a consequence it gets heavily booked up over the winter. And generally speaking the only warm-up locals want is the bacon roll and cup of coffee in the clubhouse.


I'm of course generalising and they may well be able to pull off the trick of changing a third of the holes without diminishing its popularity but then again they may live to regret it.


Niall

[Niall C]

Ally


Don't get me wrong, the green is better than nothing but without knowing the history of the course it does look a modern addition, possibly from when they built the visitor clubhouse. I can well imagine the green might have been set back 30 or 40 yards back in the day.


For most the approach shot is a mid to short iron in which case the only relevance the bunkers have is to stop the run up. As I say, not bad but not a patch on some of the other holes.


Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall

The range was busy on a cold December day when we were there. I think you underestimate the popularity of high quality practice grounds and teaching facilities. I would be greatly surprised if the club's bottom line was negatively impacted by altering #3. Of course from my personal PoV this development is risking much of what makes #3 attractive. Who knows though, maybe the new holes will be good. Let us hope that at the very least a better job is made of the changes than was the case at Eden.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

I think the important factor will be if it has been done because it is the wish of club members or if it has been done by the club management catering for visitors. The former would show a club sticking to its' main principles. The latter would be a potential slippery slope which has caught out other clubs in the past.


Jon

[Josh Bills]

Niall,


My one trip to Scotland to date started exactly as you described, with a bacon roll and some coffee before I embarked on 36 holes beginning on #2 followed by #3.  What a great way to be introduced to Scotland golf.  The locals were kind, nice and I walked all 36 playing through probably 6 or 7 groups of 4 males and females as a single and everyone was very kind.  I think removing holes from the visitor side would be a great loss, as I enjoyed them all, especially 17.  But if that is what the club wants, it is their club.  I hope they are not doing it for overseas visitors, as I could care less. 








[imgwidth=790]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49418789018_eb3c256b12_o.jpg

[Duncan Cheslett]

I hope they are not doing it for overseas visitors, as I could care less.

COULDN’T care less...


...it doesn’t make sense otherwise.


😉

[Michael Whitaker]

I hope they are not doing it for overseas visitors, as I could care less.

COULDN’T care less...


...it doesn’t make sense otherwise.


😉

Well done, professor! Now... if you could just explain the proper use of the pronoun "me" versus "I" it would be greatly appreciated. 

[Sean_A]

I hope they are not doing it for overseas visitors, as I could care less.

COULDN’T care less...

...it doesn’t make sense otherwise.

Or, maybe he does care a bit, but not much. 😎

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

In which case he would say “I am ambivalent”.


“I could care less” is a lazy piece of nonsensical bollocks!


It means nothing.


I understand that you Americans are speaking English as a foreign language, but please make an effort!

🤣

[Duncan Cheslett]

I hope they are not doing it for overseas visitors, as I could care less.

COULDN’T care less...


...it doesn’t make sense otherwise.


😉

Well done, professor! Now... if you could just explain the proper use of the pronoun "me" versus "I" it would be greatly appreciated. 

It’s actually very simple.


“I went to the pub” 👍


“Mike and I went to the pub” 👍


“Me and Mike went to the pub” 👎

[Sean_A]

In which case he would say “I am ambivalent”.

“I could care less” is a lazy piece of nonsensical bollocks!

It means nothing.

I understand that you Americans are speaking English as a foreign language, but please make an effort!

Hmmm, no. Ambivalent doesn't mean the same thing as I could care less 😎.

Question. Is anyone unclear as to what a person who states...I could care less... is trying to convey?

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

In which case he would say “I am ambivalent”.

“I could care less” is a lazy piece of nonsensical bollocks!

It means nothing.

I understand that you Americans are speaking English as a foreign language, but please make an effort!

Hmmm, no. Ambivalent doesn't mean the same thing as I could care less 😎.

Question. Is anyone unclear as to what a person who states...I could care less... is trying to convey?

Ciao

It depends on tone and context  I wonder if this is a similar case to 'reaching out' when talking about contacting someone?

[Duncan Cheslett]

The only context in which it is acceptable to use the words “reach out” is if you’re a member of The Four Tops.


🤣

[Jon Wiggett]

The only context in which it is acceptable to use the words “reach out” is if you’re a member of The Four Tops.


🤣

🤣🤣🤣

[Niall C]

.....anyway


Josh


Glad you enjoyed it. No 3 is a wee belter and thanks for the picture of the second. A terrific par 3. As I said in an earlier post, its just  a lovely place to play golf.


Niall

[Josh Bills]

Sorry for the poor grammar, I should have taken a little more time before I posted, purely an editing mistake on my part.  I am a person who cares about words during the day, but failed to convey my message appropriately on this forum, please forgive me.  I should have said, I don't care what they do, but I hope whatever they are doing is not for overseas visitors. 


Niall,  Thank you for the reply and I agree it is a lovely place to play golf. Others, I will try to do more better with my grammar. 

[Sean_A]

In which case he would say “I am ambivalent”.

“I could care less” is a lazy piece of nonsensical bollocks!

It means nothing.

I understand that you Americans are speaking English as a foreign language, but please make an effort!

Hmmm, no. Ambivalent doesn't mean the same thing as I could care less .

Question. Is anyone unclear as to what a person who states...I could care less... is trying to convey?

Ciao

It depends on tone and context  I wonder if this is a similar case to 'reaching out' when talking about contacting someone?

Yes, an American colloquialism...which I would argue the original "mistake" was.  One that has always bothered me is "thanks for sharing".  It either sounds forced or downright insincere to my ear. 

Ciao 

[Sean_A]

All

Please see the updated tour. Each time I stop by Gullane 3 the more it impresses me.  I even think the new 18th was done fairly well!

Ciao