"Why Won't Millenials Join Country Clubs?"

[ward peyronnin]

If you are given everything you don’t join anything.

Boy that rings true.

You might as well also ask why do younger folks prefer the cheap throaway IKEA type decor over classically styled reproduction or actual antique designs be it furniture, cut glass, etc. You can't even give it away to them so these assets have shed tremendous value. They value "experiences" over tangible things or even associations; they abandon libraries for google, and cultivate a social life that is self absorbed and insular.

And for those who, mostly from the outside looking in, condemn all that there is to enjoy from a club membership because of their perceived notions of exclusivity etc how many of you are participating in Kwanza events right now? People have the right to associate how they choose by things that bring them together.

[Tim Martin]

Around Southwestern Ontario many private clubs have dropped their Initiation fees to keep the yearly membership full. While not a great situation for the club, this does work well for many younger players. Many join till they buy a house of have kids, but some even manage to stay through both. This may not great for the business of the club ... but it is good for retaining younger players.

Not unlike contacting your cable TV provider to negotiate a better rate that same approach is available with initiation fees although many prospective members are unaware of same. Clubs that are looking for new members are way more flexible than in the past and realize that monthly dues and the cash flow that comes with it beat no member at all. A dozen years after the financial crisis of 2008 there are many new models to choose from. That doesn’t mean everyone can find the right fit but there are way more options available.

[Ronald Montesano]

The previous generation didn't like you guys when you were young, either. Welcome to your birthright: condescendingly, cumudgeon-esque behavior. Sorry you miss being young and not caring.

[Jeff Schley]

If you are given everything you don’t join anything.

Boy that rings true.

You might as well also ask why do younger folks prefer the cheap throaway IKEA type decor over classically styled reproduction or actual antique designs be it furniture, cut glass, etc. You can't even give it away to them so these assets have shed tremendous value. They value "experiences" over tangible things or even associations; they abandon libraries for google, and cultivate a social life that is self absorbed and insular.

And for those who, mostly from the outside looking in, condemn all that there is to enjoy from a club membership because of their perceived notions of exclusivity etc how many of you are participating in Kwanza events right now? People have the right to associate how they choose by things that bring them together.

This thread is exhibit A for what happens in Group Think.
Let's dog pile on millennials because......there are many more people here that will be silent or agree?  "Cultivate a social life that is self absorbed and insular?" Is there a competition to see who can demonize this generation?
BTW the baby boomers were about 74 million, the millennials count just over 71, so it isn't like the baby boomers hugely dominate the population. I'm not even a millennial, but don't think this conjecture is balanced at all.

[John Kavanaugh]

I can not think of a single criticism that my Dad said about me or my generation that didn't ring true. But then again I wanted most of the things my Dad had achieved through hard work and sacrifice. The millennials on this thread have clearly stated that they want nothing to do with our kind.

[SL_Solow]

Barney,  Enough already.  What contact do you have with millenials living in major metropolitan areas where most of the issues regarding private clubs exist?  Almost everything posted on this thread has been anecdotal with little or no reference to data.  At the very least , the anecdotes should have some basis in relevant personal experience.

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney,  Enough already.  What contact do you have with millenials living in major metropolitan areas where most of the issues regarding private clubs exist?  Almost everything posted on this thread has been anecdotal with little or no reference to data.  At the very least , the anecdotes should have some basis in relevant personal experience.

I have three children 34, 30 and 24 whose growth I have studied religiously. I myself was young once. I am intimately familiar with life in LA, Hong Kong, DC, London, Sydney and Melbourne. Taking this along with having joined clubs myself in most regions of the country I am familiar with club culture and the sacrifices required to find happiness in varied settings. While I offer no guarantees on being correct I am confident in the quality of my relevant personal experience.

[Alex Miller]

In failing to answer the title question correctly in nearly any conceivable way, I think Jaka is providing the best evidence of all.


But in addition to angry old men, it really is far more of a stretch today financially than for previous generations, as has been explained. Combined that with less social incentive and it's really not hard to see. 7X(!) less wealth for Millenials vs Boomers when at the same age, and memberships not only hit the balance sheet but also the income statement. Millenials either had just entered or were entering the workforce when the greatest economic downturn of the last 50 years happened. If we're going to make an investment, we're going to make sure it's thought through and worth it. Private club membership needs to advance to compete for the disposable income we have.


As far as I see it, Fiscal (and social, and climate) responsibility are much more part of my peers' ethos than those who have come before. Glad we could bail you out - now we're going to work hard and hope not to repeat the cycle.

[Chip Gaskins]

Ben Sims and Mike Young, great posting on this topic.

One of the more interesting posts in this thread didn't get much discussion.  Maybe for a thread of its own?
"Did Mike Keiser kill the mediocre country club" 

When you do a destination trip to a world class golf destination, with world class golf courses (Bandon, Streamsong, Sand Valley, Barnbougle, Cabot, etc), then it seems that might be a better option twice a year, than trying to play twice a week to justify your dues.
I played my second round of golf in 2019 yesterday, and it reminded me of what I think golf's biggest issue is.....that it simply takes too long to play.  The PGA or USGA or (or whomever is keen on "growing the game") should help develop a bunch more kid friendly Sweetness Cove type facilities.


 

[John Kavanaugh]

This too long to play argument doesn't hold water. If you join a course with 36 holes you rarely feel the need to play all 36. The same can be said for if you are a member of an 18 hole course. It's simply your choice how many holes you decide to play on any given day. That is the beauty of private club membership. You and only you control exactly how long you choose to golf on any given day.


As an example I have taken a turn recently in my life that I didn't see coming. 6 days a week there is a wolf game at 7:30 in the morning. It is open to every member who chooses to play, day in and day out. My golfing day is now over at noon where for the last 20 years it started at 10 am and was done at dark. By changing how I play and when I play I have a virtual 12 day week with a bonus Sunday rest day. I call it my Bakers Dozen retirement plan. I've 13 days a week now to do whatever I choose. I choose to spend 6 of them golfing. This would be impossible anywhere but a private club.


This also works for those who are not retired. I grew up watching a car dealer walk 9 holes every morning at 6:30 am and not miss a beat at work. I thought he was nuts at the time but it was how he chose to play.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

This too long to play argument doesn't hold water. If you join a course with 36 holes you rarely feel the need to play all 36. The same can be said for if you are a member of an 18 hole course. It's simply your choice how many holes you decide to play on any given day. That is the beauty of private club membership. You and only you control exactly how long you choose to golf on any given day.

If it takes an hour to play three holes, that's still a horrible pace of play that will turn players off, even if they only wanted to play three holes. Or six.

Pace of play absolutely matters here. Golf takes too long.

[John Kavanaugh]

This too long to play argument doesn't hold water. If you join a course with 36 holes you rarely feel the need to play all 36. The same can be said for if you are a member of an 18 hole course. It's simply your choice how many holes you decide to play on any given day. That is the beauty of private club membership. You and only you control exactly how long you choose to golf on any given day.

If it takes an hour to play three holes, that's still a horrible pace of play that will turn players off, even if they only wanted to play three holes. Or six.

Pace of play absolutely matters here. Golf takes too long.

Why does it take you an hour to play three holes?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Why does it take you an hour to play three holes?

That's not at all what I said John.

I'll play 18 holes in 2:15, walking, thank you.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why does it take you an hour to play three holes?

That's not at all what I said John.

I'll play 18 holes in 2:15, walking, thank you.

Exactly, then what choices have you made that don't make that possible? I don't believe that there is a private club in the world where the members can not talk to each other and work out a plan where each person plays exactly as quickly as they choose. It seems to be some dirty little secret that we are not all looking out for each other.


You can not expect staff to solve these issues. They will be at the club for the same amount of time no matter how quickly you play. They simply are not invested in this perceived problem. I have not waited on a golfer or had one wait on me a handful of times in the 50+ years I have been playing. It is simply because I personally communicate with anyone in front or behind my group. It's that damn simple.


Another example for Shelly: Today my threesome had a five some in front and a single behind. I waited on the single and asked him to join us. Problem solved and 9 people had a nice day. Oh, and this was at a public resort in Florida over Christmas vacation.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Exactly, then what choices have you made that don't make that possible?

Don't make what possible? If the course is full of slow players, then I cannot play 18 holes in 2:15. Slow play is a huge problem in golf, even at clubs. It can and does stop golfers from enjoying league night, or from getting in a quick 18 on Saturday morning, or whatever.

You can not expect staff to solve these issues.

Who said anything about "the staff"?

[John Kavanaugh]

Erik,


If you are the fastest golfer in the club what is preventing you from teeing off first in the morning?


An example outside of golf that I think everyone can relate to are dinner reservations. My wife and I refuse to wait on a table and never make plans until the exact time we are hungry. We so then choose to only eat at restaurants either too expensive or with such poor food quality that they are never busy. This exact same technique works for golf. If golf is slow at the cheapest best course in town than that is not your problem. Your problem is that you want everything tied up nice and pretty with a big red bow when all you need to do is go to the goat ranch or exclusive club down the street.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

If you are the fastest golfer in the club what is preventing you from teeing off first in the morning?

Goodness, John. There could be dozens of reasons why that's not possible. And it's not about ME, either, but about ALL the golfers who are aggravated by slow play.

Your paragraph about dining at an overpriced restaurant to avoid having to wait is not cute or applicable.

The simple fact is this: slow play is a problem in today's game, even at private clubs.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you are the fastest golfer in the club what is preventing you from teeing off first in the morning?

Goodness, John. There could be dozens of reasons why that's not possible. And it's not about ME, either, but about ALL the golfers who are aggravated by slow play.

Your paragraph about dining at an overpriced restaurant to avoid having to wait is not cute or applicable.

The simple fact is this: slow play is a problem in today's game, even at private clubs.

Erik,


Are you familiar with the app Open Table? You may not dine exactly where you want but you alway get a table when you want.


I agree that slow play is a problem at most courses. I'm just saying that I have found the solution. I even just last month played two rounds at Pebble without ever waiting for.a single shot or being waited on by a group behind. I saw earlier where you said that you don't believe me and edited your post. I get that but you can ask Mike Cirba. We met at Swope Memorial on a busy day at what is a $35 public Tillinghast course. A little this and a little that and we played at a perfect pace with no one behind or in front. You have to see it to believe it.

[corey miller]

John Emerson


The typical “private club life” offers me nothing that I would pay for even if I was not a superintendent, or if I could afford it.  I prefer sitting around bullshitting with craft beers and taco trucks to greens committee politics and Sunday brunches. 






Doesn't a typical private club, regardless of greens committee politics (Which I assume could be handled with some education), provide better playing conditions for the golfer? Isn't that something worth paying for? 

[Kalen Braley]

If you are given everything you don’t join anything.

Boy that rings true.

You might as well also ask why do younger folks prefer the cheap throaway IKEA type decor over classically styled reproduction or actual antique designs be it furniture, cut glass, etc. You can't even give it away to them so these assets have shed tremendous value. They value "experiences" over tangible things or even associations; they abandon libraries for google, and cultivate a social life that is self absorbed and insular.

And for those who, mostly from the outside looking in, condemn all that there is to enjoy from a club membership because of their perceived notions of exclusivity etc how many of you are participating in Kwanza events right now? People have the right to associate how they choose by things that bring them together.

This thread is exhibit A for what happens in Group Think.
Let's dog pile on millennials because......there are many more people here that will be silent or agree?  "Cultivate a social life that is self absorbed and insular?" Is there a competition to see who can demonize this generation?
BTW the baby boomers were about 74 million, the millennials count just over 71, so it isn't like the baby boomers hugely dominate the population. I'm not even a millennial, but don't think this conjecture is balanced at all.

Jeff,


No doubt.  So much of the "guy born on third base, who thinks he hit a triple" going on in this thread.  Sad...very sad...

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,


90% of the members of private clubs where I have played are self made. What is your point?

[Ryan Carey]

Pay attention to posts on Twitter and Instagram in the next coupe days as we enter the new year. You’ll get your answer.


You’ll find thousands of posts about Top 10 courses played in 2019, best new courses discovered this year, and so forth.


You won’t find one person posting about how he played the same course every Sunday morning with the exact same group of guys.


Young golfers want variety. They want to see what’s new, undiscovered (to them), and are willing to travel a great distance to experience new courses.


Paying an exorbitant amount of money to join a local course that’s likely not as good as the ones they can travel to? No thanks.

[John Emerson]

John Emerson


The typical “private club life” offers me nothing that I would pay for even if I was not a superintendent, or if I could afford it.  I prefer sitting around bullshitting with craft beers and taco trucks to greens committee politics and Sunday brunches. 






Doesn't a typical private club, regardless of greens committee politics (Which I assume could be handled with some education), provide better playing conditions for the golfer? Isn't that something worth paying for?

Of course it can.  Matter of fact it definitely can. But... Playing conditions doesn’t necessarily rank high on the list of “must haves” for me as a golfer.  I don’t need tour quality conditions to have an amazing time.  Actually most of my golf is played at courses many may turn their nose up to.  It’s the company I keep that trumps everything else. A private club can’t give me that.  You can’t buy it.  It’s not for sale and never will be.

[Tim Martin]

John Emerson


The typical “private club life” offers me nothing that I would pay for even if I was not a superintendent, or if I could afford it.  I prefer sitting around bullshitting with craft beers and taco trucks to greens committee politics and Sunday brunches. 






Doesn't a typical private club, regardless of greens committee politics (Which I assume could be handled with some education), provide better playing conditions for the golfer? Isn't that something worth paying for?

Of course it can.  Matter of fact it definitely can. But... Playing conditions doesn’t necessarily rank high on the list of “must haves” for me as a golfer.  I don’t need tour quality conditions to have an amazing time.  Actually most of my golf is played at courses many may turn their nose up to.  It’s the company I keep that trumps everything else. A private club can’t give me that.  You can’t buy it.  It’s not for sale and never will be.

I think it’s easier to find a golf course you like than the social piece.

[Bill Gayne]

For many country clubs the model has been based on being exclusive while millennials life experiences in school, work, and social are inclusive. It's not easy transitioning from an exclusive organization to one that's inclusive.