[JC Jones]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

[Ian Mackenzie]

It was otherwise unremarkable winter day here in Chicago yesterday until I received a bizarre email that began a truly surreal exchange with a young man whom I have never met or heard of before. He claims he received my contact info from a "friend of a friend:

"Hi Ian, I hope you are doing well. I wanted to reach out to see if you would be willing to host my father and I to XXXX Club next summer. I would be willing to cover all the expenses from the outing (guest fees, your caddy gratuity, lunch, etc), so there would be no cost to you. Over the past several years my dad and I have had an annual ritual of playing several of the top ranked golf courses around North America (see below), and would love the opportunity to experience XXXX as well. "

I admit to being a bit surprised by the brazen approach. I also admit to being somewhat sympathetic.So, I opted to counsel him on a better approach while letting him know that most clubs have a strict policy against this type of thing. I also encourage him to go w to Scotland where golf was more interesting, less expensive and FAR more inclusive.(His provided list of played courses included mostly resorts with one private course.)

His next reply is what floored me:

"I appreciate your responses however, I would say your expectations of others generosity is incorrect. I've contacted a few other members at other highly exclusive US clubs and have been fortunately welcomed. My goal is to play the top 25 golf courses in the US with my dad and thankfully only need one member at each to provide the invite."

My question to you here is...does this really happen today?
.

Ian;


The key to this situation is the "friend of a friend" - was that just a BS comment or was there really an intermediary who knew you?   


I have sent notes to members of interesting clubs when I had a genuine friend/acquaintance and always mention their names, and what is even preferable is if they offer to call their friend directly.  These things take judgment and tact which many people don't have any longer.


If this fellow never mentioned who the mutual friend was then I really would look at this askance.   In that case he is just some guy out of no where that nobody knows.  It is similar to the requests I get on LinkedIn for no apparent reason from people I have never met.


In this day of digital communications, I have met people in various communities that I am involved with including GCA and gotten to know them and played golf with them.  Usually the best way to get to know someone is to invite them to play at your club or somewhere interesting.   So, I do disagree with a few people who complain about not having access to clubs featured on GCA because they were not part of an "In" crowd.    Pardon me - I am digressing here.

Bill -


My initial response to this guy was:


"In what context do we know each other?" as I agree and subscribe to good karma pay it forward mentality.
If he had replied, "Hey, I'm a friend of Bill Crane's..." as an example, I might have leaned in a bit.


Instead, He replied, "I received your contact information from a friend of a friend, who thought you might be able to help. "
In fact, he submitted an inquiry on my firm's web site.

After not identifying the source, he persisted with his case and I chose instead to steer him towards Scotland.

But, it left me puzzled and wondering if this kind of thing is widespread.

In the future, I can recommend he play "Soft and Green GC" in Orlando....

I agree with pay it forward.
But, at the very least, I need to know the price and direction.

Gives me an idea for GCA...

what if we had a formalreciprocal process where we could play each other's courses?

[JC Jones]

So now you’re trying to parlay this into access for yourself?  And you’re questioning this other kid’s dignity?

[Ian Mackenzie]

So now you’re trying to parlay this into access for yourself?  And you’re questioning this other kid’s dignity?

No, negative...missed the point.


The operative words you missed were "each others" as in sharing as in reciprocal as in mutually beneficial as in with guys we are aware of and familiar with as in "you play mine when youre in town (with me) and I play yours when I'm there (with you)"....as in a ton of fun as in everyone wins.

That's the way YOU chose to interpret it. Please keep your projections to yourself.
Thanks.

[John Kavanaugh]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

I think we both know the answer to that question. I am leading up to a serious Stolen Valor question myself. At the end of this year I will no longer be a member of Prairie Dunes and over half the shirts I wear on a daily basis, and one headcover and my Yeti cooler from which I go from coffee to Bloody Mary every morning sports their logo. Yea, and even my original leather Mackenzie bag has a yucca plant on its side. Ouch.


I suppose that being an ex-member in good standing gives me certain rights but it will never be the same.

[Eric Smith]

dignity

[Jim Sherma]

John - I agree that ex-member status gives full rights to sporting a club's swag.


There is a line for Stolen Valor of clubs that you never belonged to. Shirts and Hats definitely fall on the acceptable side. IMO head covers are on the ok side as long as they are not a matching set. Golf bags I think fall on the wrong side and should be a members only thing.

[Bill Crane]

[I agree with pay it forward.
But, at the very least, I need to know the price and direction.

Gives me an idea for GCA...

what if we had a formal reciprocal process where we could play each other's courses?]


Ian;

I think the idea of creating a GCA reciprocity group is great idea - one of the ways I describe GCA to folks is to point out it is like a club in some respects in that you have to apply to be granted access to the DG.

Let's talk in January, perhaps we can come up with some ideas that might be practical that could enable GCA posters to buy into the idea or not without creating pressure or inviting abuse.

Of course, you know you are always welcome back here near ole Nassau!!

Bill

[Ian Mackenzie]

[I agree with pay it forward.
But, at the very least, I need to know the price and direction.

Gives me an idea for GCA...

what if we had a formal reciprocal process where we could play each other's courses?]


Ian;

I think the idea of creating a GCA reciprocity group is great idea - one of the ways I describe GCA to folks is to point out it is like a club in some respects in that you have to apply to be granted access to the DG.

Let's talk in January, perhaps we can come up with some ideas that might be practical that could enable GCA posters to buy into the idea or not without creating pressure or inviting abuse.

Of course, you know you are always welcome back here near ole Nassau!!

Bill

Bill,
I had lunch with Malcolm there in May and played with Doc Varney last year.
Am in town more and more as my mother gets on in years. Let's get a date in the spring.
Likewise if you find yourself in Chicago.
Cheers.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - I agree that ex-member status gives full rights to sporting a club's swag.


There is a line for Stolen Valor of clubs that you never belonged to. Shirts and Hats definitely fall on the acceptable side. IMO head covers are on the ok side as long as they are not a matching set. Golf bags I think fall on the wrong side and should be a members only thing.

Jim,


Thanks. One more Florida summer and the shirts will all be trash anyway.


I don't believe that head covers from private clubs where you are not a member are acceptable because of a personal experience. At one point in my life I would play in a tournament at Butler National every year and picked up a head cover for my driver. When out at Whisper Rock a couple of guys walked past my bag while on the range and acted quite impressed that I was a member of Butler. I sheepishly had to confess that I was not and disposed of the cover appropriately.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

[Mark Chaplin]

Decent clubs tend to have member only gear and other gear anyone can buy. If Pine Valley didn’t want me to buy a head cover or Cypress Point a top they wouldn’t let me buy them.


A friend of mine introduced himself to a lady wearing an R&A sweater, lady members are thin on the ground so he thought it polite to say hello to a fellow member. He wasn’t impressed when she admitted she wasn’t a member and her husband got her the sweater.

[Lou_Duran]

JK,


Will you email me a copy of your contact list along with a letter of introduction under your letterhead and digital signature, preferably in Word with editing enabled, and generic enough that I can use it anywhere.  I would send you my top 10 bucket list courses, but asking you to handle the details is crossing the line even among such good friends.  Thanks in advance.


I am simpatico with David W on this one.  Ask nicely and perhaps you shall receive, but always ensure how the contact was made.  I've been asked for references on similar requests and it is not a burden.

[John Kavanaugh]

JK,


Will you email me a copy of your contact list along with a letter of introduction under your letterhead and digital signature, preferably in Word with editing enabled, and generic enough that I can use it anywhere.  I would send you my top 10 bucket list courses, but asking you to handle the details is crossing the line even among such good friends.  Thanks in advance.


I am simpatico with David W on this one.  Ask nicely and perhaps you shall receive, but always ensure how the contact was made.  I've been asked for references on similar requests and it is not a burden.

Lou,


If I understood what any of that meant I would gladly comply. I would suggest that a man your age cut his bucket list down a bit. I've heard that many of the finest east coast clubs now require a minimum space of 8 inches between your tits and your belt. Sorry bud.

[Tom_Doak]

I get a lot of requests to play at Crystal Downs, or at some of the more exclusive private clubs I have designed, from magazine panelists and golf business people and GCA and now even Instagram.  I explain to them that they can only play if I host them personally, and though I will sometimes do that, it's hard to commit to a date months in advance, considering my busy schedule.


At the same time, I will never forget that when I was 19, I was invited to play at Seminole, Merion, Pine Valley, Somerset Hills, LACC, SFGC, and a few others, by the green chairman or president, simply by writing a "cold call" letter and asking if I could come and see the golf course.  It was a huge leg up in my career journey to be welcomed at all of those places, so when I get a letter from someone who is perhaps overreaching a little, I am aware that I might once have done that myself.

[Jeff Loh]

Tom
Did you ask to bring your father??

[Bruce Katona]

I don't know I'd allow someone I don't know (or know through someone who's supplied some sort of reference) out with me to play.  While it hasn't occurred often, I was called a few times in the past over the actions of my unaccompanied guests.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I get a lot of requests to play at Crystal Downs, or at some of the more exclusive private clubs I have designed, from magazine panelists and golf business people and GCA and now even Instagram.  I explain to them that they can only play if I host them personally, and though I will sometimes do that, it's hard to commit to a date months in advance, considering my busy schedule.


At the same time, I will never forget that when I was 19, I was invited to play at Seminole, Merion, Pine Valley, Somerset Hills, LACC, SFGC, and a few others, by the green chairman or president, simply by writing a "cold call" letter and asking if I could come and see the golf course.  It was a huge leg up in my career journey to be welcomed at all of those places, so when I get a letter from someone who is perhaps overreaching a little, I am aware that I might once have done that myself.

My guess, Tom, is that your letter to the club presidents had just a bit more meat on it than an access request...;-)


Student at Cornell, studying architecture, lived in St. Andrews, etc...may I please come and walk your hallowed grounds...?


It's a far cry from what I ran into which amounted to: Hey, I don't know you, but my dad and I are on a quest to play the top 25 and was wondering if you could hook us up...?


He thought I was a member at CGC. I am not and have never pretended to be. I told him I was not and offered more that, as far as I knew, CGC planned to be closed next summer anyway.


I also could imagine me being that kid years ago and having pure intentions, but misplaced efforts. So, yes, I was empathetic and somewhat surprised when he replied that he was having some success.


My original question still stands: Does this happen a lot to members of "top 25 courses"? (Cold calls I mean. Friendly referrals are one thing, but out of the blue...?)


Has it happened to anyone here?

[Ian Mackenzie]

I don't know I'd allow someone I don't know (or know through someone who's supplied some sort of reference) out with me to play.  While it hasn't occurred often, I was called a few times in the past over the actions of my unaccompanied guests.

This is another subset of the issue actually that I find truly amazing.


Access to the course is one thing, but asking another person to spend 5 hours with you out of the blue is something altogether different.


Sure, we have all had wonderful experiences playing golf with total strangers who end of being BFFs so please dont pull that card...;-) But that is usually serendipity and not a furnished favor of a stranger like youre some sort of Make a Wish Foundation...

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

[JC Jones]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

Im going to go out on a limb and say John isnt very intimidated by your D-list Chicago membership and the $500/year you pay to a public course in Scotland.


But it sure is fun to watch you flex your status as being someone some kid mistook for a member of a real club.

[Mike Hendren]

Do you carry a Chicago Golf Club golf bag? Before this thread carrying a golf bag from a club where you are not a member was the most egregious example of Stolen Valor that I had seen. Somehow, somewhere this kids friend of a friend thought you were a member of a club where you are not. It happens to me from time to time and is always interesting to find out why.

Would someone seriously carry a bag with a logo of a club to which they didn’t belong?

JC, I’ve carried a Ping Moon bag forever and couldn’t resist buying another years ago at Cypress Point Club since both my noggin and girth were too big for their apparel. It has never left my den BUT I would consider it far less pretentious than toting a MacKenzie Walker.


Lay off trying to be the moral compass of GCA - I don’t appreciate the competition.


Also, I hope Barney still considers me to be a good friend as I hereby invoke his name and co-opt his reciprocity for any invites the treehouse would like to make. Just be advised that I’ve given up the game - kinda. By the way I’m a wonderful guest but have a bad habit of foozling off the first tee. I actually whiffed at Lahinch.


Peace out.


Bogey

[Scott Warren]

I'm curious, JC, having read your post above and then your post signature, why are you mad at the world?

[Mike Sweeney]

Ian,


GCA has an excellent and vibrant reciprocal process. It is found in the Personal Messages section of the site.

Awesome. If I ever have the urge to play "Friendship Village", I'll hit you up.

When I got the IM to play Cypress Point Club, I thought it was a scam. I literally had never heard of an "Unescorted Foursome". I just corresponded with Admiral Mauz on a different topic, and we both agreed that we missed "Uncle Bob":





That was a great era, and that is the 17th green at Cypress Point Club. 


I have an Instagram account, and if you want to play with me and my Autistic son on a 45 degree day at Hotchkiss Golf Course, send me a message!! Life is an evolving process...

[JC Jones]

I'm curious, JC, having read your post above and then your post signature, why are you mad at the world?

Those are quotes from BCowan that I found comical; I only wish I had that sort of ironic poetry. 


I do appreciate you following me around the board policing my posts.  Its a about a decade old at this point but you dont seem weary yet.

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