"I Think the cultural momentum behind walking . . . is too strong."

[Kyle Harris]

Cultural momentum is just another term for "Millenials are killing XYZ."

The editor is simply afraid of being marginalized. Cirba is right, this isn't some economic argument but rather a guy who is increasingly feeling guilty over being a lazy ass all his life and probably staring right in the face the health issues that has caused.


Lou Duran,


I'd admit to being in this for the money, but that would make me certifiably insane and give ammunition to my slew of exes.

[jeffwarne]

"Golf as it was meant to be played" has to be one of the most vacuous phrases in golf.  Meant by whom? 

and a completely unoriginal marketing phrase used by so many resorts and developments of varying quality.
We all have an idea of how we prefer our golf.
Some courses mandate it, others live and let live...




As far as the quote (what does it even mean?)Golf Digest jumped the shark a few years ago-

[Bernie Bell]

I don't read any of the golf magazines and have no opinion on their current content.  The only thing I know about Max Adler is the Valentino Dixon story, which is a beautiful one. 

[jeffwarne]

I don't read any of the golf magazines and have no opinion on their current content.  The only thing I know about Max Adler is the Valentino Dixon story, which is a beautiful one.

That it is-in fact perhaps they have some good writers.
Would just like to see some make the magazine rather than the drivel they think people want...

[John Kirk]

Some "OK Boomer" moments here.  Here's a joke:


A pair of Wall Street economists were having lunch at the Manhattan Club last week.

"I heard that you're teaching a class at Columbia this semester, Alan. That's the same class that I taught a year ago."

"Yep, I know, I just found a copy of the final exam that you gave them. I'm giving them the same exam next week."

"Golly! -- aren't you even going to change some of the questions?"

"Nope -- just the answers."

[Tim Martin]

If your tee sheet is full with walking only then not having to maintain a fleet of carts is a nice bonus on the operational side. Thinking Bandon as an example.

[Lou_Duran]

Few golfers play because they love carts while many play because they love to walk. This in turn leads to little resistance when your local course becomes a park. It is not an unrealistic stretch to see how a cultural momentum behind walking combined with one against competition could lead to more course closures. Why pay for golf and all the environmental issues associated with maintaining conditions for competition when a simple natural park can provide as much enjoyment? If we want to protect the game we can not let the walk outshine the competition or we will end up with nothing but a fashion show in the park.

Wow, something provocative AND profound coming out of this thread.  And this time Barney does not confuse me!


He describes many of the CartBallers and Walkers at my club, myself and my walking mates in the latter group included.  We never bet, and though we try to shoot the best score possible (we sometimes award imaginary gold, silver and bronze medals), the clock seems to be the primary competition (3 hours for a walking 4-ball being par).


At the other end, our MGA and Senior MGA have games nearly every day, most often tossing in $20 for a handicapped Stableford and skins.  They all ride and pace of play is a leisurely 4-4:15.  Competition is key, along with fellowship; riding a cart only enables them to enjoy the game.  The occasional comments I get from them, mostly the seniors, ("You must be a real athlete" or "I need to start walking again") suggest that riding is a means to an end, and perhaps some regret.


The observation about what this might mean for golf is supported by an article I read a few months back regarding residential developers no longer viewing golf as a way to boost lot values and sales.  A relatively small number of people who live in golf communities actually play golf (the average figure I've seen reported is <20%), but nearly all enjoy walking in the neighborhood and/or living in an open, natural environment.


Instead, more developers are skipping the golf course and putting in greenbelts, lakes, walking trails, pools and amenities centers.  Once the development is completed, the HOA takes over the full responsibility for operating and maintaining these amenities, with the costs, liability, and complexities being much less than if a golf course was involved.


 

[Edward Glidewell]

I noticed a couple of people mention the damage carts cause to the course in this thread -- what effect do you think GPS technology will have on this issue? Many newer carts with GPS systems allow the course to restrict cart traffic to specific areas; the carts will actually shut off and only allow the driver to go slowly in reverse until they return to an approved area, and those areas can be changed daily. Operators don't even have to have GPS yardages in the cart to use the system. I assume it will become more widespread in the future, which should alleviate at least one of the issues with carts.

[Kyle Harris]

I noticed a couple of people mention the damage carts cause to the course in this thread -- what effect do you think GPS technology will have on this issue? Many newer carts with GPS systems allow the course to restrict cart traffic to specific areas; the carts will actually shut off and only allow the driver to go slowly in reverse until they return to an approved area, and those areas can be changed daily. Operators don't even have to have GPS yardages in the cart to use the system. I assume it will become more widespread in the future, which should alleviate at least one of the issues with carts.

How about we seek to minimize downtime, not fill it.


Same goes for overhead.


While I'm rushing in my cart to wait on the group in front of me I am creating downtime.

[SL_Solow]

I suspect the number of housing developments being built without golf is a reaction to the overbuilding that occurred pre-2008.  Numerous developments failed and the homeowners associations were left with under performing courses which often were abandoned.  In my professional life, I was involved in the disposition of several of these developments and they were difficult problems.  Note that this was not a millenial issue; many of the courses were in Florida and aimed at the retirement market.  Tying this issue to a "walking culture" is, to my way of thinking, misguided.

[Rick Shefchik]

I’ve long thought golf has undersold the wellness aspect of the game.
Walking, socializing, solving puzzles, outdoors in natural setting. 
But then none of those are big business.

I think this is spot-on. Continuing to market golf to a younger demographic as a game played in carts with expensive equipment seems to be a way to hasten its demise.


If, on the other hand, golf were sold as an active outdoor pursuit, it might begin to appeal to the L.L. Bean/Cabelas/REI/45 Degrees crowd -- most of whom, when they hear the word "golf," probably think of their grandpa.

[Michael Moore]

Clanking clubs VS Music in carts?
Really??

John was as usual ahead of his time on this one. I have been clank-shushed in competition, in casual play, by riders, and by walkers. Steve Elkington was famously called out for clanking Bubba Watson for two days straight, and "You gonna stop walkin' man? Damn . . . . . did it all day yestiday . . . " always comes to mind every time I hear my own clubs making a racket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eDTLapiIoc
 
PS - If the goal of a golf course is to make as much money as humanly possible we are all in big trouble.

[Pete Lavallee]

Ditch the double strap bag for one with a single strap and club clanking is a thing of the past.

[Bernie Bell]

A hand across your iron heads will silence the clanging with a double strap too.  Not sure if double strapping a full load will "replenish your soul" though, like a single strap bag, fewer than 14 clubs, and no stand does.  At least that's what the woke folk say.

[V_Halyard]

Ditch the double strap bag for one with a single strap and club clanking is a thing of the past.

I dunno, when I upgraded from my intro (Game Improvement..) clubs to my first forged set, I sort of enjoyed the sound of the my new forged club clank.
Forged was the sound of "I finally suck a little less."

[ward peyronnin]

I was tempted to start a new thread called WALKMAN WOKE on this topic so that my counter view would not be buried but my low threshold of self esteem, so effectively torpedoed by those fortunate enough to be able to walk, prevented me.
I have toggled back and forth all my life according to the situation. Hell Whittaker and I carried our bags over 100 miles in 9 days just 5 years ago during the continental Buda.

However I just had back surgery for multiple spinal defects that severely limited my walking() but didn't impact my turn; i even broke par this summer. I HAD to play in a cart yet I have read many comments which indicate little tolerance or sympathy for folks in my situation and I ask that those who voiced them re-examine their view.
As an example Mile Cirba states that his and Joe's lovely project should be a walking only course( really another form of elitism). I played Cobbs last month and that is preposterous considering the extreme rise and fall of many internal holes. And Mike will you tell donors that they need to pony up enough sinking fund money to cover for the reduced rounds and revenue your desired policy suggests? I just listened to your podcast and look forward to meeting you someday but I hate to think that if we play and I ride you will view me as a second class golf citizen whom you try to tolerate on the golf course.
I agree to all the downsides of cart golf but hoped to temper some of the views expressed here with a dose of reality

[Kyle Harris]

I was tempted to start a new thread called WALKMAN WOKE on this topic so that my counter view would not be buried but my low threshold of self esteem, so effectively torpedoed by those fortunate enough to be able to walk, prevented me.
I have toggled back and forth all my life according to the situation. Hell Whittaker and I carried our bags over 100 miles in 9 days just 5 years ago during the continental Buda.

However I just had back surgery for multiple spinal defects that severely limited my walking() but didn't impact my turn; i even broke par this summer. I HAD to play in a cart yet I have read many comments which indicate little tolerance or sympathy for folks in my situation and I ask that those who voiced them re-examine their view.
As an example Mile Cirba states that his and Joe's lovely project should be a walking only course( really another form of elitism). I played Cobbs last month and that is preposterous considering the extreme rise and fall of many internal holes. And Mike will you tell donors that they need to pony up enough sinking fund money to cover for the reduced rounds and revenue your desired policy suggests? I just listened to your podcast and look forward to meeting you someday but I hate to think that if we play and I ride you will view me as a second class golf citizen whom you try to tolerate on the golf course.
I agree to all the downsides of cart golf but hoped to temper some of the views expressed here with a dose of reality

Ward,


I don't know that any of us are lacking in sympathy to your situation, nor willing to accommodate.

It's when the otherwise able person has the "doctor" in his group write a note for a pre-existing "knee/hip/heart/brain" condition day of that some cynicism enters into the equation.


Remember, policies exist to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.