The Mackenzie Whisperer. Gary...

[John Kavanaugh]

Koch. I played Mystic Dunes for the first time today just outside Disney World. While the course is far too difficult for its intended resort audience Mystic Dunes has the 18 most interesting greens on one course that I have ever played. Is this a common theme in Koch courses? Can the modern golfer accept such a thrill ride even when like today the greens are running perfectly in relation to slope? Has the study of architecture stifled modern design in that only the dead guys are allowed to build greens like this?


If you don't believe me just give me a toot and I'll take you out to play Mystic. If I'm wrong I'll pay your green fee.

[Tom_Doak]

Gary Koch was the only guy on Tour in Ben Crenshaw's prime that some people thought was better with the putter than Ben.  So, it makes sense that his golf courses would focus on greens contour.


I have never played one of his designs to agree with you about the greens, or not.  He did do one course in northern Michigan, the Tribute at Otsego Resort, in Gaylord.  Had a beautiful piece of land to work with.  But I have never heard anyone here mention the course since the year it opened.

[JC Jones]

I had forgotten he'd done the Tribute.  The two courses at Otsego club are the only 2 courses I think I've not played in Gaylord.  Maybe next summer I'll make the short drive south to check them out.


I've heard several reports that the greens at Mystic Dunes, and the course generally, are an oasis of decent golf in a sea of crap golf that is Orlando.

[John Kavanaugh]

In an odd twist of fate the resort of Mystic Dunes has always struggled financially so they never had the money to "fix" the greens. Everything about the course far exceeds the ability of the average mind to enjoy. He even built suicide volcano bunkers.


Thanks for the note about Crenshaw as it explains why the greens may be as they seem.

[Tom_Doak]

Everything about the course far exceeds the ability of the average mind to enjoy.

Especially the routing and land plan!  I just looked on Google Earth and I had to seek help to piece together which were the starting and finishing holes, and just where you had to dodge between homes to get from one hole to the next on the front nine.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have lived behind the par 3 8th tee for 5 months and today was the first time I played the hole. Imagine my astonishment when I found the yardage from the one up tee to be 234yds. My favorite template in all of golf and this whole time it has been in my front yard.

[John Kavanaugh]

The few pictures on this site give a glimpse into a suicide volcano bunker. While not all that all uncommon well over 100 years ago it is fascinating to see so many on one course today.


https://www.golfzoo.com/-orlando-golf-vacation-packages-mystic-dunes-golf-club-.htm

[Mike Sweeney]

Everything about the course far exceeds the ability of the average mind to enjoy.

Especially the routing and land plan!  I just looked on Google Earth and I had to seek help to piece together which were the starting and finishing holes, and just where you had to dodge between homes to get from one hole to the next on the front nine.

I think I played it twice in my Disney era, but as a walker, my view probably got clouded by some of Tom's observations and the condo squeezing holes on the back. Highlands Reserve, discovered by FatBaldyDrummer, was my "goto" as it had the Biarritz and some other decent greens.


That said, the greens at Mountain Lake are superior to all. There are many Midwesterners at ML too, so you can avoid New Yorkers when you finally take the ride to Lake Wales.

[Kyle Harris]

I guess I am now living in an era where John Kavanaugh blows the doors off all my little secrets.

I'm here for it, honestly.