Torrey Pines South Renovation for 2021 US Open - 14M

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Along with irrigation project came the chance for architect Rees Jones to tweak the Torrey Pines South Course ahead of 2021 U.S. Open
Billed primarily as a project to replace the course’s irrigation system, the city of San Diego’s golf division budgeted $14 million for the work. And while the contractor, Landscapes Unlimited, was out there in the last seven months replacing pipes and installing more than 2,000 computer-operated sprinkler heads, Jones and assistant Greg Muirhead added some tees and shifted around bunkers to help the course defend itself against the power of the modern game.









https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/golf/story/2019-11-16/torrey-pines-south-course-golf-renovation-us-open-pga-farmers-open

[jeffwarne]

Holy time warp!
Was that article a cut and paste from 1999?

[Tyler Kearns]

Holy time warp!
Was that article a cut and paste from 1999?

$14 million for a renovation to primarily replace the irrigation system? That is astonishingly expensive (even if they were doing both the north & south courses)!


Tyler

[Jeff Schley]

While I'm a big fan of the US Open going to public courses, I don't think these bunkers / tees are sorely needed.  Irrigation probably did need to be upgraded but at 14 million was the water included for the next 2 years as well?
The open doctor toying around couldn't have been that significant to the budget.

[Matthew Rose]

Is it 8,000 yards yet?

[Mike Sweeney]

I finally played TP South last summer and I definitely liked the course, and loved the place. The combination of Marine Jets from Miramar, long vistas on the course out to the Pacific, surfers and hang gliders on the beach, and breakfast at The Inn (did not stay there, just breakfast) make for a unique California/San Diego experience that Bethpage can't match.






That said, Bethpage Red and Black blow away TP South as courses, and at no time did TP South feel like a US Open course. I did love the barranca holes on the back. TP South seems to use length as its main defense, and that does get boring. The greens and green surrounds are forgettable. I actually played well, so I naturally liked the course. Two holes were closed for the renovation work.





We are probably skipping our annual surf trip this summer, but I do want to play The North, see below:

[Terry Lavin]

I enjoyed my only round there back in 2002. When we were done the assistant pro asked if we could “believe” that we’d just played a US Open golf course. No, was my response. Sure there are great vistas. The kite surfers were a nice distraction. But the pinching bunkers on both sides of the fairway defense was invoked on too many holes and the pond on 18 had a muni feel to it. Id play it again, but architecturally it had a middling feel to it.

[Tom_Doak]

Hey, that's only a few million $ more than it cost to strip Bel Air down to the studs and restore it.


Prices do tend to go haywire when you are working on projects owned by the city, though.

[Carl Rogers]

See thread about too much $ to spend.

[jeffwarne]

We can bash TP all we want, and 14 milin seems absolutely absurd...
but Bethpage has taken a course with a somewhat interesting architectural pedigree and made it(via architectural change and daily setup) into a strategyless, boring, redundant tight rough infested long slog where a shorter hitter has few good choices(regardless of tees), with a redundancy of either rough or bunkers 40-70 yards in front of many greens.


Torrey Pines is at least a beautiful walk along and over the Pacific


In both cases, a pity


Soooooo many good things could be done with 14 million!!, either to TP in a meaningful architectural way(not just a few more obligatory tees and 300 plus pinching bunkers-along with 2000 new sprinkler heads), or by simply supporting other golf or nongolf programs in their city.

[Derek_Duncan]

What should this Torrey Pines renovation cost? Can anyone put a better or more reasonable (realistic) number on it?

[Tom_Doak]

What should this Torrey Pines renovation cost? Can anyone put a better or more reasonable (realistic) number on it?

I was going to try and attempt an answer, but the article is not clear enough as to the scope of work:  for instance, whether they just added bunkers here and there, which is all it describes, or actually rebuilt them all.  It also didn't state whether the new irrigation system was just for one course or for two.  A brand new system with all the bells and whistles might be $3m per 18 holes at the high end, but I'm sure someone could figure out a way to make it cost more than that.


But I did get a kick out of this quote:


“I think what the USGA likes about Torrey Pines, and what I like about it, is that you have to think about your drive,” Jones said. “It’s not like (recent U.S. Open venues) Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, where you can just bang away."
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[Matthew Petersen]

What should this Torrey Pines renovation cost? Can anyone put a better or more reasonable (realistic) number on it?

I was going to try and attempt an answer, but the article is not clear enough as to the scope of work:  for instance, whether they just added bunkers here and there, which is all it describes, or actually rebuilt them all.  It also didn't state whether the new irrigation system was just for one course or for two.  A brand new system with all the bells and whistles might be $3m per 18 holes at the high end, but I'm sure someone could figure out a way to make it cost more than that.


But I did get a kick out of this quote:


“I think what the USGA likes about Torrey Pines, and what I like about it, is that you have to think about your drive,” Jones said. “It’s not like (recent U.S. Open venues) Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, where you can just bang away."

It's really his follow up that's the kicker.

“I truly believe that if you make a player think, if he’s got to engage his mind, he’s going to hit a better shot. If it’s bombs away, they can hit some terrible shots.”

I mean ...

[John Emerson]

Hey, that's only a few million $ more than it cost to strip Bel Air down to the studs and restore it.


Prices do tend to go haywire when you are working on projects owned by the city, though.

Case in point Boca National.  It’s like some ppl see “public course renovations” as a open season money grab and everyone will look the other way 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ira Fishman]

What should this Torrey Pines renovation cost? Can anyone put a better or more reasonable (realistic) number on it?

I was going to try and attempt an answer, but the article is not clear enough as to the scope of work:  for instance, whether they just added bunkers here and there, which is all it describes, or actually rebuilt them all.  It also didn't state whether the new irrigation system was just for one course or for two.  A brand new system with all the bells and whistles might be $3m per 18 holes at the high end, but I'm sure someone could figure out a way to make it cost more than that.


But I did get a kick out of this quote:


“I think what the USGA likes about Torrey Pines, and what I like about it, is that you have to think about your drive,” Jones said. “It’s not like (recent U.S. Open venues) Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, where you can just bang away."

Sibling rivalry?


Ira

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@ Derek Duncan
@Tom Doak


A more reasonable cost is about $4.4M- what we are paying  for one of our 3 courses- a 27 year old Arthur Hills course:


1.  A new irrigation system with about 1500-2000 heads ( about $2.4M )
2,  Reshaping where necessary and regrassing all greens ( about $1M )
3.  Eliminating some bunkers, reshaping other bunkers and installing Capillary Concrete System ( about $1M)


The irrigation system cost was higher than we expected but this a residential golf community and the pipes must go under roads 11 times.

[jeffwarne]

so in a state with water problems and restrictions galore...


has the USGA abandonded the Pinehurst single row experiment?
(Certainly the USGA could have soome influence over what an Open site would do irrigation and presentationwise)


14 million.....

[Jeff Schley]

so in a state with water problems and restrictions galore...


has the USGA abandonded the Pinehurst single row experiment?
(Certainly the USGA could have soome influence over what an Open site would do irrigation and presentationwise)


14 million.....

That is a great point Jeff, this has slipped my mind.  If they have spec. Greens then perhaps spec irrigation should follow and thus humble the contending courses for their championships as less is more.  But the usga is gluttonous in so many ways.

[Pete Lavallee]

All bunkers were redone, temporary greens were built on the par 5 6th and 13th to allow two holes to be shut down and rebuilt. The new irrigation system allows each head to be individually controlled. TPS main defense is no longer its length it’s the rough, so we do need to irrigate it in the summer. All bunkers were rebuilt to a shallower version where the steep grass bank was eliminated and liners installed. Lots of tree removal, both diseased Torrey Pines and eucalyptus. The City’s Golf Fund is flush with cash from all the out of towers paying $183 during the week and $229 on the weekends. It is strange that it took this long to find out about Rees involvement?

[Kalen Braley]

I'm still having difficulty wrapping my mind around $14 mill for some bunker work and new sprinkler system.  Where is the taxpayer concern or involvement on this.

[Alex Miller]

All bunkers were redone, temporary greens were built on the par 5 6th and 13th to allow two holes to be shut down and rebuilt. The new irrigation system allows each head to be individually controlled. TPS main defense is no longer its length it’s the rough, so we do need to irrigate it in the summer. All bunkers were rebuilt to a shallower version where the steep grass bank was eliminated and liners installed. Lots of tree removal, both diseased Torrey Pines and eucalyptus. The City’s Golf Fund is flush with cash from all the out of towers paying $183 during the week and $229 on the weekends. It is strange that it took this long to find out about Rees involvement?

So now the pros will have even more incentive to miss it in fairway bunkers instead of the rough? What logic!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Geoff Shackelford chimes in:




https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/11/20/for-the-low-low-price-of-14-million-open-doctor-jones-ratchets-up-the-challenge-on-torrey-pines-south

[Jeff Schley]

Good for Shack to point out the obvious. In a municipality, typically they solicit bids for everything over X amount of dollars. Whatever board was overseeing this had to have single sourced this from the Open Doctor.  It is part of the due diligence and checks and balances of municipal purchasing contracts typically, thus I assume it wasn't via normal channels.

[Tom Hooker]

All bunkers were redone, temporary greens were built on the par 5 6th and 13th to allow two holes to be shut down and rebuilt. The new irrigation system allows each head to be individually controlled. TPS main defense is no longer its length it’s the rough, so we do need to irrigate it in the summer. All bunkers were rebuilt to a shallower version where the steep grass bank was eliminated and liners installed. Lots of tree removal, both diseased Torrey Pines and eucalyptus. The City’s Golf Fund is flush with cash from all the out of towers paying $183 during the week and $229 on the weekends. It is strange that it took this long to find out about Rees involvement?

At some point it starts to feel like the USGA/PGA/PGA TOUR are holding Bethpage Black, Torrey Pines, and their respective stewards and constituencies hostage.

[Pete Lavallee]

All money collected from SD golf courses goes into the golf fund and must be used for golf. Balboa Park is in the best shape it’s been in for many years. It also has an irrigation System that can control each head individually; actually a byproduct of money collected from the USGA during the 2008 US Open. The only obvious place to spend the cash is the executive course Mission Bay, which does need a lot of work and a new clubhouse. But the futures of this site is in doubt since the DeAnza trailer park closed and the City looks to redevelop this prime section of Mission Bay. Thankfully plans for an $8M new clubhouse at Balboa Park have been shelved.


As many have noted here before the price of “fair wage labor” for City projects really ratcheted up the cost. The interesting question is: was Rees paid? In the original resign he did the d ensign Pro Bono, but used his construction Co. to carry out the work.