US Open Venue Debate

[Michael Pelliccione]

Recently had a debate with a good friend on which is the hardest US Open Venue (course not year).


Two part answer as well:


1.) Hardest US Open Venue under US Open conditions
2.) Hardest US Open Venue under normal member play / what we play and experience


Sorry if this has been posted before.

[Jeff Schley]

I think the hardest US Open is Oakmont.
I also think Oakmont is the hardest venue for a daily play.  Winged Foot would be a second IMO.

[Michael Baity]

For objective reference, here courses that have hosted in the past 30 years or will host in the future and using US Open data since 1959:

Par         Venue                                                        Course Rating   Slope     Bogey Rating
71           Torrey Pines                                                       78.2        144         104.9
72           Erin Hills                                                               77.9        145         104.9
70           LACC (North)                                                     77.5        146         104.5
70           Bethpage (Black)                                              77.5        155         106.5
70           Chambers Bay                                                   77.4        145         104.2
71           Pebble Beach                                                    76.9        148         103.5
70           Oakmont                                                             76.9        142         103.3
70           Shinnecock Hills                                                76.9        146         103.4
70           Oakland Hills (South)                                      76.6        145         103.5
70           Pinehurst (No. 2)                                             76.5        138         102.1
70           Winged Foot (West)                                       76.4        140         102.3
70           Oak Hill (East)                                                    76.4        148         103.8
70           The Country Club (Championship)            76.3        150         104.1
70           Olympic (Lake)                                                  75.7        143         102.3
70           Merion                                                                 75.1        151         103.6


Par         Venue                                                                  US Open Winning Score
70           The Country Club (Championship)            285.5
71           Torrey Pines                                                       283.0
70           Winged Foot (West)                                       282.5
71           Pebble Beach                                                    280.8
70           Oakmont                                                             280.3
70           Oakland Hills (South)                                      279.3
70           Shinnecock Hills                                                279.0
70           Olympic (Lake)                                                  279.0
70           Merion                                                                 278.0
70           Pinehurst (No. 2)                                             276.7
70           Bethpage (Black)                                              276.5
70           Oak Hill (East)                                                    276.5
70           Chambers Bay                                                   275.0
72           Erin Hills                                                               272.0
70           LACC (North)                                                     N/A

[jeffwarne]

I'd prefer tp see field average score as the determining factor for course difficulty, not w asingle winning score
unless we want to assume Pebble in 2000 was "easy"

[Steve Lapper]

Myopia Hunt Club from it's tips with Hickories!

[Pete_Pittock]

1. Oakmont  2. Erin Hills (walking).   I think Dick Daley would agree on (2) as he saw me the next two days.

[Matt_Cohn]

Of the seven I've played, Winged Foot, comfortably.

[V. Kmetz]

On the "for everyday play" it's not Winged Foot West... while it can be ramped up, from a sensible yardage, it's doesn't have to be a brutality and can be fun.


I haven't played it in over a decade, but Shinnecock was far and away the hardest of the four others I have played... and the first round Thursday of the Open last year was the hardest golf course anybody could imagine...I would not have broken 130, if I could even have finished.


cheers  vk

[James Brown]

Shinnecock would be the hardest under USGA direction because it’s impossible for them to not go overboard there apparently. 


Olympic Club is the least enjoyable and hardest US Open venue I have played. 

[Ben Stephens]

What about the latest incarnation of Inverness - looks astounding and tough!


Course rating is 78.4 and Slope Rating 151 of the championship tees 

[Tim Leahy]

Of the seven I've played, Winged Foot, comfortably.

How would you compare it to Spyglass(since you played the state champ there) and Olympic(if you have played it)?

[John Foley]

Played both WFW & Oakmont late in the year with the rough down and greens fast but not lightning and was surprised by how benign they were. Not to say they aren't tough but the difficulty swing on green speeds & rough there is large.

[Matt_Cohn]

Of the seven I've played, Winged Foot, comfortably.

How would you compare it to Spyglass(since you played the state champ there) and Olympic(if you have played it)?

Lake Course might be tougher tee to green because WFW is fairly flat, but WFW seems harder around the greens. Getting up-and-down at WFW just felt impossible—every time was a 7-foot-deep bunker to a green that slopes away, and then goes over a hump, and so on.


Spy played very tough during the US Am with firm greens and 4-inch rough. But if the weather is good, the fact that it's under 7,000 yards keeps it from being really crazy. At WFW, a pro who drives it 300 would have 6 approaches under 150 yards. At the Lake course they'd have maybe 8 depending on choices off the tee. At Spy they'd have 11 or 12. If Spy added some new back tees and made it 7,200 or 7,300 yards, it would be just as hard as those other two.