Two Holes on Every Green?

[Philip Hensley]

I caught a lot of The Ringer action on social media this past weekend (shout-out ZB, shout-out golf, shout-out Dormie Club), and during one of the rounds they used 2 holes on every green.


It made me think about how two holes could be use to make a player think more, and as a result beat themselves by overthinking their options.


For instance, having a front left hole tucked behind a greenside bunker. The player has gone left side of the fairway and has no angle to this hole. But there is a back right hole that seems safe. Except that part of the green is designed where a less-than-good shot is deflected off the green and an almost impossible up-and-down (bonus if there is no bunker back there that makes it seem even more like the safer option). The player that goes for the back right hole is now demoralized, because they think they have been bailed out of the bad tee shot by an alternate hole. They could've played to the middle of the green and putted back to the front-left hole for an easy 2-putt par, but now they got greedy with another option and hurt themselves.


It could also help some players receive more "good luck". On the 12th hole at Dormie Club, a short one-shotter, some players were going for the right side hole and coming up short and left, which was then kicked down towards the other hole. This would be especially demoralizing in match play, where a shot like this would normally leave your opponent with a lengthy 35-footer for a tough two-putt par, and now he's sitting 4 feet from the hole for birdie!

[Carl Rogers]

Is the two hole idea feasible or desirable at The Loop?

[Ken Moum]

IIRC, the Renegade Course at Desert Mountain used to cut two holes on each green and they had different color flags.


One set was much more difficult than the other.


It seems that I was told they had different rating, too. But it was a long time ago.

[Kyle Harris]

A thought experiment I had awhile back that never quite made it to a thread was along these lines with the added idea that a putting green be designed - in a similar manner as one would a set of tees - with the idea that two hole locations per day presented two different "courses."

Playing the back tees? Why not play the equivalent hole location for the day? With sufficient width/depth on the putting surface you might solve awkward green-to-tee transitions by having the commensurate tee for the hole location/putting green area be on the side of the putting surface for the next hole.

With a sufficiently large or segregated green perhaps the group behind can approach while the group ahead putts out.

[Matt Wharton]

I just returned from Dormie Club where they played host to the 10th annual Virlina Cup.  This is a Ryder Cup style match between two teams of golf course superintendents representing the Carolinas GCSA and Virginia GCSA.  Dormie Club superintendent Billy Lewis spoke to me about The Ringer as it wrapped up just prior to the arrival of both Virlina Cup teams Sunday afternoon. 


He mentioned the two holes and stated it was because there would not have been enough time to change holes between rounds on the same day, thus they cut two holes per green and the flag was moved between rounds.  He did state one format on the final day allowed participants to select which hole they wanted to putt to, but the primary reason for the two holes per green was time constraints when playing 36 holes.

[Jeff_Brauer]

The Monarch Dunes 12 hole "Challenge Course" cuts a large and small cup on every green, trying to appeal to new players while also functioning for traditional golfers.  When I played it, we sort of played horse where the winner on the previous hole called the shot, and sometimes we would play to the big hole, others not.  Was one way to make golf a heck of a lot of fun.

[Jeff Schley]

IIRC, the Renegade Course at Desert Mountain used to cut two holes on each green and they had different color flags.


One set was much more difficult than the other.


It seems that I was told they had different rating, too. But it was a long time ago.

That was the first course I thought of. Gold tees to Gold flags was off the charts hard. 

[MCirba]

Sweetens Cove has one set of flags to play to as the front nine and another set for the back.


Works well given the size and variety of the greens and surrounds.

[Philip Hensley]

My thought is to have two holes on every green, where either one can be played.

[Kalen Braley]

Aren't greens the most expensive spaces to maintain on the course per square foot?  By a fairly wide margin?

At a time when courses should be cost cutting, i'm not following.  Unless this is just pie in the sky chat! 

[Chris_Blakely]

Sweetens Cove has one set of flags to play to as the front nine and another set for the back.


Works well given the size and variety of the greens and surrounds.

Just played Sweetens Cove last month.


Yes, they have two sets of flags in every green.


In the pro shack they mentioned that one set of flags (white I believe) was meant to be the easier approach and the other set (blue I believe) was meant to be the harder approach.  I have just checked my photos and that aligns with the flag colors . . .

[Philip Hensley]

Aren't greens the most expensive spaces to maintain on the course per square foot?  By a fairly wide margin?

At a time when courses should be cost cutting, i'm not following.  Unless this is just pie in the sky chat! 

Why would those be more expensive?

[JBovay]

Sweetens Cove has one set of flags to play to as the front nine and another set for the back.


Works well given the size and variety of the greens and surrounds.

There's also a nine-hole course a little west of Sacramento called Wild Wings, designed by Todd Eckenrode, which has a wild set of greens and two flags on each green (one color for the front and another for the back). Given the severity of the greens, it can make the second go-around feel like a different experience even though the greens are not especially large and just one set of tees is used.

[Pete_Pittock]

Cedar Bend, a bit north of Gold Beach, OR also has two flagsticks on every green. One hole, the par 3 4th has different tee blocks, one playing north, the other east.  Actually, it is just outside Ophir. Not a links. It is one of my hidden 9 hole gems of Oregon.


Cedar Bend Golf Links (John Zoller) is near Gold Beach on the southern Oregon coast. Small streams in the valley, with a cedar covered hillside. Both the hillside and the streams play a big factor on its best holes, 1,6,7 with perched greens atop shaved slopes. Balls are recoverable.The 4th is a par 3 with tees shots vectored south and west. The greens are big enough that each has two flags, for the out and in 9s.