Quite Short Par 4s

[Ira Fishman]

I have been lucky enough to play several great ones. Swinley Forest 3, Golspie 5, Lahinch 13, Bandon Trails 14, and CPC 9. But I am hard pressed to find a better one than Pinehurst 2 Number 3. And no, I have not played Riviera.


Ira

[Tommy Williamsen]

About thirty years ago I played #2 four times in one week. I bogeyed three three times. On my last play I told my caddie of the week I wanted to break 80 and would need his help. I got to three and asked for the driver. He handed me the four wood. I said, "Ashely, give me the driver." He said, "No sir. Do you want you break 80? Hit the four wood." It is one of the under regarded short par fours in the world.

[Tal Oz]

Tom/Ira, as someone who's never played Pinehurst what makes that green play so special? From the photos it looks like the green runs away even with a wedge in hand.

That would remind me of a few other short 4s where the greens are wild AND run away from the player. 2 at Swinley and both 3 and 12 at Rustic Canyon.

10 at Riviera has been mentioned here a million times, but even from the perfect layup position hitting wedge into that sliver of a green is thrilling. I've had putts on that green where I'm legitimately concerned I'm going to putt it into a bunker or have to skirt the fringe to have a chance at keeping it close.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Glen Echo in St. Louis, number 5. 268 from the tips. Small green with great bunkering updated by Kye Goalby. If you walk off with worse than par you hate yourself, but with a poor tee shot selection it happens often

[Tom_Doak]

I don't think I've ever built a par-4 under 300 yards in America.  Clients are bound to ask me to make them a little longer.  (The 6th at Pacific Dunes is one such example.)


In Australia and New Zealand, though, I've built a bunch of them:
4th and 12th at Barnbougle
2nd and 14th at St Andrews Beach
7th at Tara Iti
2nd and 17th at National (Gunnamatta)


It's crazy how I keep finding them over there. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tom you got pretty close at Memorial Park. #13 for the Pros is 330, and 300 for us mortals. Opens Nov 4th everyone.


At Nine Grand (it will open after the temporary clubhouse gets built and we hope to have some friendly rounds there this fall) -- #5 is 285 as the crow flies and #6 is 310. Back to back little 4s. Mahaffey was instrumental in pushing us here, I had settled on a somewhat more conservative 3 then 4.


At Wolf Point hole #s 1, 4, 10 & 16 are 290, 280, 260 and 350 from the tees I usually play.


And #10 at Woodmere on Long Island is ~ 310. RTJ Sr. with our improvements.


Cheers

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,


I played 2 at Gunnamatta a couple of weeks ago off the back tees into the wind.
Driver, punch 4 iron!


The first at Victoria is 260 yards.

[Thomas Dai]

The 9th at TOC comes to mind. Not what it first appears. 10 and 12 too.
Of course as age creeps up on you many a par-3 becomes a short par-4!
Atb

[Ira Fishman]

I don't think I've ever built a par-4 under 300 yards in America.  Clients are bound to ask me to make them a little longer.  (The 6th at Pacific Dunes is one such example.)


In Australia and New Zealand, though, I've built a bunch of them:
4th and 12th at Barnbougle
2nd and 14th at St Andrews Beach
7th at Tara Iti
2nd and 17th at National (Gunnamatta)


It's crazy how I keep finding them over there.

Perhaps a function of that aspect of our culture that believes that bigger is better.  I am sure that most of your clients have played an Elie, Swinley Forest, or Kilspindie.  Hard to believe that they were not captivated by the short fours, but I guess they need to appeal to their customers.


Ira


PS PD 6 is great, but 16 even though it is not "quite short" is one of my favorite par fours of any length.

[John Foley]

Love #15 at World Woods Pine Barrens - Fazio's best I have played.

[Ira Fishman]

Tom/Ira, as someone who's never played Pinehurst what makes that green play so special? From the photos it looks like the green runs away even with a wedge in hand.

That would remind me of a few other short 4s where the greens are wild AND run away from the player. 2 at Swinley and both 3 and 12 at Rustic Canyon.

10 at Riviera has been mentioned here a million times, but even from the perfect layup position hitting wedge into that sliver of a green is thrilling. I've had putts on that green where I'm legitimately concerned I'm going to putt it into a bunker or have to skirt the fringe to have a chance at keeping it close.

Tal,


The green will hold a wedge.  The need to flirt with the bunker from almost any angle makes the green for me.  And the best angle unless you really bomb it (not I) is definitely going to bring it into to play.  I also just realized that the hole is not as short as I thought although visually it was.


Ira

[Bernie Bell]

Westhampton #1. 


https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/westhamptoncc/holemap.htm?next=overview.htm#

[Jeff Schley]

I recently played Ganton and as well as having a wonderful to play it had 2 short par 4's which were strategic with bunker placement, as of course this is Ganton and how can you not talk bunkers.
The 3rd 288 from member tees over a huge bunker on the left  for a layup or a large bunker on the right by the green in the landing area.(349 from tips).
The 14th 280 for pretty much all tee boxes which is very get able, although you have a big bunker on the left off the tee to carry.
Some would say the 17th is a drivable par 3  .  251 from the back and balls hard! Sometimes plays as a par 4 I'm told.

Nice youtube flyovers......   http://www.gantongolfclub.com/Championship-Course/Course-Fly-overs.aspx

[Michael Felton]

Two spring to mind. Number 6 at Deal is a heck of a hole. If the green is firm/it's downwind, good luck. I know quite a few people really hate this hole with a passion, but I don't. It's a bugger to play though. I see a lot of bogeys on this one. Downwind, with less than a full wedge, you kind of have to play to the right half of the green and hope that the seawall stops it, leaving you a third shot from level ground. Further right you go though the more the slope affects it. It's very exacting unless you're VERY brave.


Number 8 at Pine Valley. The left hand green on this is the smallest I've ever seen I think and it has three tiers in it. Then you have to play your approach shot with your ball below your feet. Miss the green and you could be there all day. Fabulous.

[David_Tepper]

Ira -

#7 at Golspie is a pretty good one too.

DT

[V. Kmetz]

NGLA - #2
CC of Fairfield - #7
Siwanoy - #9
Apawamis - #s 3 & 4
Blind Brook - #5

[Ira Fishman]

Ira -

#7 at Golspie is a pretty good one too.

DT

I was debating which one at Golspie to list.  For Elie, I gave up because 2, 6, and 10 all great.


Ira

[Ben Hollerbach]

The two best holes at Sweetens Cove are their short 5th and 7th. Neither over 330, with the 5th under 300. 

Of course the key to short holes is the green and how it receives approach shots. I find the location of the pin can greatly change what approach shot I'll want to play, which thus will decide what shot I play off of the tee.

[John Mayhugh]

Some others I really like, using sub 300 yards for a guideline:
 
 
Kington 18 – 279 yards
Downhill dogleg right to a narrow green, with a fairway shelf and mounding to the left, mounds and a steep drop to right and rear. Impossible not to be tempted to hit it on the green from the tee. Easier par if you’re not trying too hard to make 3.
 
 
Morfontaine 3 – 280ish yards
Elevated tee shot to a green cut into the side of a hill. A few rock outcroppings litter the fairway that tilts right to left. Green is diagonal to the fairway, with a bunker in the hill front right, then a big drop from the left side of the green. Green tilts from right to left and has some incredible contours.
 
 
Swinkelsche 11 – 300ish yards
I’m cheating a bit as this one is longer than my self-imposed limit, but the hole concept would work for a shorter hole. Really must be seen to be believed. Fairway is 100+ yards wide in places but with bunkers seemingly everywhere. Direct line to the green must carry a shortish mound of sand. If playing a 270 yard hole, that carry is around 230. Avoid the mound and you have to contend with bunkers elsewhere. The green has loads of contour.
 
 
Woking 1 – 277 yards
Often criticized as a starting hole, I agree it would be better elsewhere in the round. But I still really like it. A pair of bunkers on the left and trees on the right pinch the landing area at about 220 yards, but there is ample room past them. Green is bunkerless and slopes front to back, with a steep drop behind.
 
 
Huntercombe 17 – 272 yards
Elevated green pad fronted by three deep bunkers. Hollows and a 3-4 foot drop on the sides and back.
 
 
Cavendish 3 – 285 yards
Downhill tee shot to a fairway that tilts from right to left. Deep bunkers to the front and left, with a green that runs away.
 
 
Ganton 14 – 280 yards
Maybe a controversial choice. Wide bunker to carry about 220 yards from tee. Do that and you still have to avoid deep bunkers on the right and gorse on the left. Deep bunker cuts into left side of green. IMO a better hole with gorse removed past the fairway bunker.
 
 
North Berwick 18 – 275 yards
Gorgeous hole with the town in the background along with the North Sea. Parking for the course is on the right, so OB is a real threat. Loads of room left. Bunkerless green that is elevated above the surrounds and bumps and hollows all along the hole.
 

[Brad Tufts]

#6 at Tedesco, 277y


About 30' uphill, all carry to the green, with rough, bunkers, and woods awaiting the short or wide shot.


Also our wildest green, a real potato chip with some nasty pin positions, most notably on the knob middle right.


I can't carry it much more than 250-255, so it's generally a 4i or 5i off the tee for me.  Never eagled it in 600+ plays, but my birdie rate is probably 20-30% with SW.

[Jason Topp]

Woodlands 4 in Melbourne has always been one of my favorites because it could be built anywhere and presents interesting choices to all level of player.


Its 275 yards to a bunkerless green raised from surrounding short grass and oriented towards the right side of the fairway.  Short and straight may well have an advantage over pin high and off line.   




https://www.woodlandsgolf.com.au/cms/course/4/

[Bernie Bell]

Another from Westhampton, #13


https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/westhamptoncc/holemap.htm?next=overview.htm#


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57003.msg1326770.html#msg1326770

[Buck Wolter]

Glen Echo in St. Louis, number 5. 268 from the tips. Small green with great bunkering updated by Kye Goalby. If you walk off with worse than par you hate yourself, but with a poor tee shot selection it happens often

Would love to here more about Kye's work here at some point

-- semi-hidden gem

. I holed out for eagle on that hole once

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tom/Ira, as someone who's never played Pinehurst what makes that green play so special? From the photos it looks like the green runs away even with a wedge in hand.

That would remind me of a few other short 4s where the greens are wild AND run away from the player. 2 at Swinley and both 3 and 12 at Rustic Canyon.

10 at Riviera has been mentioned here a million times, but even from the perfect layup position hitting wedge into that sliver of a green is thrilling. I've had putts on that green where I'm legitimately concerned I'm going to putt it into a bunker or have to skirt the fringe to have a chance at keeping it close.

The tee shot is quite formidable. The are bunkers down the right and left sides of the fairway and one bunker that juts out. Here is a flyover. The layup is the way to go unless you can get it in a greenside bunker.




https://www.foxsports.com/golf/story/course-guide-for-pinehurst-no-2-us-open-hole-by-hole-preview-060914

[SL_Solow]

17 at Crystal Downs is a little longer than 300 yards but it is a very interesting hole