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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2019, 10:59:23 AM »
But the 18-0 Patriots lost to the very mediocre Giants in the Super Bowl...


What are we rewarding here?

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2019, 11:13:44 AM »
But the 18-0 Patriots lost to the very mediocre Giants in the Super Bowl...


What are we rewarding here?


This format seems to invite opportunism and the tendency for the favorites to take their foot off the accelerator early on in the playoffs. We shall see what happens but it is all a little unsettling and sort of contrary to the usual playoff week-by-week buildup.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2019, 11:30:13 AM »
Agree and Disagree...


I think the worst of all worlds is to have the Tour Championship mean nothing...which it could.


If Charles Howell shoots 22 under and wins it all this week from the #28 (or whatever) spot, should he take home $15M?


The interesting handicap is that playing with the lead is tough for everyone, (and was the exclamation point to why Tiger was so incredible) so starting out 2 ahead of second and 6 ahead of the main chase group mightn't be all that comforting...but in reality, should JT have been 2 ahead of Cantlay as a representation of the season played?


Golf doesn't lend itself to playoffs otside of match play so I like this idea of every player in the field has a legitimate shot to win the $15M.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2019, 11:44:35 AM »
The fundamental problem as I see it...

They desperately want the Tour Championship to have major status...which I doubt it ever will.  So in the meantime all they're left with is dangling a massive wad of cash for players to chase after.  I guess its "working" because no one is sitting out...but i'd still much rather watch the At&T at Pebble or Jacks tourney much less a major.

But if they really want to pay the most deserving players, they should just do it EPL style, no playoffs, regular season winner is the champion.


Peter Pallotta

Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2019, 11:53:46 AM »
When I find more interest and drama reading posts by Jim and Terry *about* the playoff than I do actually *watching* the playoff, something is amiss. I don't know *what* is amiss - and maybe as Jim suggests, I'm in the very small minority here. But there is something unsettling about the basic concept/marketing ploy, i.e. "aren't *you* excited about seeing which one of *them* will win (a possibly wholly unmerited) $15 million to add to the boatload of millions they've already made this year?" Well, no, actually, I'm not. I just want to see good golf played by great golfers on an interesting golf course -- but that's hard to get when the best of those golfers are running on fumes at the stage in the season.
     
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 11:55:34 AM by Peter Pallotta »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2019, 02:04:48 PM »
While I'm not all that interested on the Tour Championship either...the format seems like it has potential to be a cool change of pace. Could certainly get these guys out of their comfort zone...for 18 holes.


Now that the first round felt like the third and everyone has re-calibrated to their score "thus far" in this tournament the next three rounds will feel like any other; i.e. "Ok, I'm 6 back with three rounds to go, pick a target score and try to get there" etc...


Remember, the Players own the Tour and the mandate for Tour staff is to maximize the amount of money on the table. When Justin Rose can win the Fedex Cup solely on the back of a win the prior week, the format is ripe for lost interest...he's a great guy and a great player but the points system for the last several years had really lost the plot.


Drop the Fedex Cup points, let money list dictate status (I think they're correlated anyway, right?) and find a way to make guys want to play this time of year. I wouldn't say it's a simple formula, but the mandate sure is clear.

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2019, 02:48:45 PM »
Match play seems more playoff-y to me. 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2019, 02:53:59 PM »
Match play seems more playoff-y to me.

Peter,

I was thinking something similar, a bit like the US Am.  Make the Tour Championship a hybrid event with two days of stroke play among the top 30 players.  The top 8 advance and do match play for the championship on the weekend....

Peter Pallotta

Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2019, 03:49:16 PM »
I think I’m just vaguely depressed.
My game is getting better, my latest (and I think last) ‘bag’ is set, the temperature is cooling off beautifully, the courses are dry — but ‘school starts’ in less than two weeks and another summer has passed without me either a) playing The Loop or b) heading down to Philly to meet and play golf with JES, who I believe has promised to give me 7 strokes a side.
So maybe I’m just vaguely
depressed, and so everything pro golf related seems to suck.
That said: I bet if they were playing with persimmon and a shorter and spinnier ball at Beverly or Garden City or NGLA I’d be glued to the set.


jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2019, 04:15:08 PM »
I think I’m just vaguely depressed.
My game is getting better, my latest (and I think last) ‘bag’ is set, the temperature is cooling off beautifully, the courses are dry — but ‘school starts’ in less than two weeks and another summer has passed without me either a) playing The Loop or b) heading down to Philly to meet and play golf with JES, who I believe has promised to give me 7 strokes a side.
So maybe I’m just vaguely
depressed, and so everything pro golf related seems to suck.
That said: I bet if they were playing with persimmon and a shorter and spinnier ball at Beverly or Garden City or NGLA I’d be glued to the set.


The ball and driver...ain't the reason they're not playing Garden City(ever) or NGLA in August
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2019, 04:43:44 PM »
I think I’m just vaguely depressed.
My game is getting better, my latest (and I think last) ‘bag’ is set, the temperature is cooling off beautifully, the courses are dry — but ‘school starts’ in less than two weeks and another summer has passed without me either a) playing The Loop or b) heading down to Philly to meet and play golf with JES, who I believe has promised to give me 7 strokes a side.
So maybe I’m just vaguely
depressed, and so everything pro golf related seems to suck.
That said: I bet if they were playing with persimmon and a shorter and spinnier ball at Beverly or Garden City or NGLA I’d be glued to the set.





Get more than 7.

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2019, 07:44:16 PM »
When I find more interest and drama reading posts by Jim and Terry *about* the playoff than I do actually *watching* the playoff, something is amiss. I don't know *what* is amiss - and maybe as Jim suggests, I'm in the very small minority here. But there is something unsettling about the basic concept/marketing ploy, i.e. "aren't *you* excited about seeing which one of *them* will win (a possibly wholly unmerited) $15 million to add to the boatload of millions they've already made this year?" Well, no, actually, I'm not. I just want to see good golf played by great golfers on an interesting golf course -- but that's hard to get when the best of those golfers are running on fumes at the stage in the season.
   


Peter, this is one of your finest-styled, on the mark posts ever... the plain-spoken dialectic perfectly reflects the problem... we and the golfers are going through the motions with this greedy grin force-pasted on our faces by the Tour's corporate partners, it's been a long season since the West Coast in January and everyone could use a break... I like most of the suggestions embodied herein:


1. Take a break
2. Play west coast venues in prime-time, including Hawaii
3. Get some match play, some cross-formats going...


and here's one if they REALLY want the public's interest...


During a lengthy break when culling down to the final Tour championship number, they allow the public to register their support with one of the 30 golfers...if that golfer wins the FedEx season deal, one of his supporters is picked at random for 1 mil of the 15 million prize, another supporter is selected for the actual winner of the event itself...for 100k.


I'd pay attention in that event.


cheers   vk

"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah New
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2019, 10:28:35 PM »
When I find more interest and drama reading posts by Jim and Terry *about* the playoff than I do actually *watching* the playoff, something is amiss. I don't know *what* is amiss - and maybe as Jim suggests, I'm in the very small minority here. But there is something unsettling about the basic concept/marketing ploy, i.e. "aren't *you* excited about seeing which one of *them* will win (a possibly wholly unmerited) $15 million to add to the boatload of millions they've already made this year?" Well, no, actually, I'm not. I just want to see good golf played by great golfers on an interesting golf course -- but that's hard to get when the best of those golfers are running on fumes at the stage in the season.
   


Peter, this is one of your finest-styled, on the mark posts ever... the plain-spoken dialectic perfectly reflects the problem... we and the golfers are going through the motions with this greedy grin force-pasted on our faces by the Tour's corporate partners, it's been a long season since the West Coast in January and everyone could use a break... I like most of the suggestions embodied herein:


1. Take a break
2. Play west coast venues in prime-time, including Hawaii
3. Get some match play, some cross-formats going...


and here's one if they REALLY want the public's interest...


During a lengthy break when culling down to the final Tour championship number, they allow the public to register their support with one of the 30 golfers...if that golfer wins the FedEx season deal, one of his supporters is picked at random for 1 mil of the 15 million prize, another supporter is selected for the actual winner of the event itself...for 100k.


I'd pay attention in that event.


cheers   vk


That's a pretty good idea
$14 million to the winner-as soon as he signs his card, he walks out to 18 green and draws the name of a supportor, who has provided a phone number, calls them and the caller has to announce the scores made by the winner on the final 4 holes to win.
Reality TV, ratings soar-costs sponsors nothing.
Or make it 5 million, make the lucky fan recite the winner's last 9 holes, and hold the event opposite Pro football, in weather more conducive to human beings.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:19:31 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #113 on: August 24, 2019, 08:59:49 AM »
Reading these format musings helps me understand how “Holey Moley” got on the air! 😅
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #114 on: August 24, 2019, 09:26:08 AM »
36-hole leaders


133 (-7) McIlroy, Casey, Schauffele
134 (-6) Koepka
135 (-5) Reavie
138 (-2) Thomas, Kuchar, Scott, Im, Kokrak
139 (-1) Finau, Fleetwood, Conners, DeChambeau


What's wrong with giving the low net winner the trophy and $15 million? So simple.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #115 on: August 24, 2019, 09:31:58 AM »
How does where the $15 million go change any of our lives. Let Ophra show up and give em all $15 million. You get....

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #116 on: August 24, 2019, 07:26:05 PM »

and here's one if they REALLY want the public's interest...

During a lengthy break when culling down to the final Tour championship number, they allow the public to register their support with one of the 30 golfers...if that golfer wins the FedEx season deal, one of his supporters is picked at random for 1 mil of the 15 million prize, another supporter is selected for the actual winner of the event itself...for 100k.

I'd pay attention in that event.

cheers   vk

That's a pretty good idea
$14 million to the winner-as soon as he signs his card, he walks out to 18 green and draws the name of a supporrer, who has provided a phone number, calls them and the caller has to announce the scores made by the winner on the final 4 holes to win.
Reality TV, ratings soar-costs sponsors nothing.
Or make it 5 million, make the lucky fan recite the winner's last 9 holes, and hold the event opposite Pro football, in weather more conducive to human beings.


One additional reason it's cool, is that registering for golfer #29 or #30 probably means you have less and less of a pool to compete with should he win... I mean who's going for Charlie Hoffman to win, unless Hoff mann winnign meant you only had to be picked from among 50,000 users, as opposed to Koepka's 1,000,000. And the sponsors/tour would love getting a few million unique registered users to sell/use to market...beside$ the potential coin, you also get however many users followup feedback on what THEY want out of the FedEx finale season...


I think it would at least amp it up for a couple of gos....honestly I have always wondered why all the sports don't do a fan lottery for all those meaningless fines generated by bad behavior... also when I listen to sports on the radio, they always give the halftime, period break interview guest a watch or a dinner at a steakhouse...in this day and age, that should be given to a fan who submits an entry...why the hell not... what does Henrik Lundqvist need another dinner at Morton's for?
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Peter Pallotta

Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #117 on: August 24, 2019, 08:35:35 PM »
Yes, good ideas - but we’re being  forced to dance on the head of a pin here, you know why? Because the jig is up. The socio-economic bifurcation has reached its limit. You remember that 2nd ever Skins Game - with Fuzzy, Jack, Arnold and Watson: when Fuzzy kissed Jack for missing that putt, and Arnold was being shut out and grinding hard and Jack won 240 k on one hole? I’ve never again ever seen pros that ecstatic, tense or pissed off — because back then those pros were almost, kind of, sort of almost like the rest of us, or at least like the wealthy among us. Nowadays, the pros don’t even pretend (in a way, much to their credit) that such paydays mean all that much to them. The $15 million is enough to get them to play, but not enough to make them sweat, or to leap for sheer and almost shocked joy as Jack did back in 83/84. So all the marketing efforts and complex points systems are meant to somehow get *us* to care, or at least to believe that *they* care — all so that we get a semblance of drama. But as I say, I think the jig is up, and so we merely get meta-drama, ie an intellectual sense of ‘oh, I think this is meant to be dramatic, Brook and Justin coming down the stretch with $15 mil on the line’. But that’s not enough. That’s why I can turn so easily away from the tv and ask my wife if she needs my help with the garden clean up instead, or maybe some company as she goes shopping for a new pair of leggings.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 08:39:00 PM by Peter Pallotta »

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #118 on: August 24, 2019, 09:18:13 PM »
Yes, good ideas - but we’re being  forced to dance on the head of a pin here, you know why? Because the jig is up. The socio-economic bifurcation has reached its limit. You remember that 2nd ever Skins Game - with Fuzzy, Jack, Arnold and Watson: when Fuzzy kissed Jack for missing that putt, and Arnold was being shut out and grinding hard and Jack won 240 k on one hole? I’ve never again ever seen pros that ecstatic, tense or pissed off — because back then those pros were almost, kind of, sort of almost like the rest of us, or at least like the wealthy among us. Nowadays, the pros don’t even pretend (in a way, much to their credit) that such paydays mean all that much to them. The $15 million is enough to get them to play, but not enough to make them sweat, or to leap for sheer and almost shocked joy as Jack did back in 83/84. So all the marketing efforts and complex points systems are meant to somehow get *us* to care, or at least to believe that *they* care — all so that we get a semblance of drama. But as I say, I think the jig is up, and so we merely get meta-drama, ie an intellectual sense of ‘oh, I think this is meant to be dramatic, Brook and Justin coming down the stretch with $15 mil on the line’. But that’s not enough. That’s why I can turn so easily away from the tv and ask my wife if she needs my help with the garden clean up instead, or maybe some company as she goes shopping for a new pair of leggings.


Yeah...someone just pointed out to me that if you made $2000.00 an hour and worked the old traditional 2000 hours a year, you would still be short of a gross billion if you started this job at the time of the American Revolution... and we've got billion dollar sports stars and teams worth 4 billion and a billioniares lists and billionaires who bilk the pubic and billionaires who hang themselves in federal cells...


The disconnect is as great as you say...the jig is indeed up
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #119 on: August 24, 2019, 11:36:23 PM »
Yes, good ideas - but we’re being  forced to dance on the head of a pin here, you know why? Because the jig is up. The socio-economic bifurcation has reached its limit. You remember that 2nd ever Skins Game - with Fuzzy, Jack, Arnold and Watson: when Fuzzy kissed Jack for missing that putt, and Arnold was being shut out and grinding hard and Jack won 240 k on one hole? I’ve never again ever seen pros that ecstatic, tense or pissed off — because back then those pros were almost, kind of, sort of almost like the rest of us, or at least like the wealthy among us. Nowadays, the pros don’t even pretend (in a way, much to their credit) that such paydays mean all that much to them. The $15 million is enough to get them to play, but not enough to make them sweat, or to leap for sheer and almost shocked joy as Jack did back in 83/84. So all the marketing efforts and complex points systems are meant to somehow get *us* to care, or at least to believe that *they* care — all so that we get a semblance of drama. But as I say, I think the jig is up, and so we merely get meta-drama, ie an intellectual sense of ‘oh, I think this is meant to be dramatic, Brook and Justin coming down the stretch with $15 mil on the line’. But that’s not enough. That’s why I can turn so easily away from the tv and ask my wife if she needs my help with the garden clean up instead, or maybe some company as she goes shopping for a new pair of leggings.


+1 boring for everyone including Bobby Jones if he were around to see the way his name has been abused, geez







It's all about the golf!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #120 on: August 25, 2019, 02:24:39 AM »
Something is badly amiss. I used to follow pro golf many moons ago and have played the game with all sorts of people in all sorts of places most of my adult life. I still follow The Masters and The Open. The is the first time I don't have a clue what folks are talking about when it comes to a pro golf event. I have no idea what the handicap talk is about or how, seemingly, a guy can win the pot without actually winning. It's extremely confusing and in a way that seems unnecessary. I haven't bothered to research what folks are talking about because it doesn't sound less boring than what goes on every week, it's just that I no longer comprehend how a winner wins. That's not all that different from many of the topics discussed. When did life become so complicated?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #122 on: August 25, 2019, 02:16:10 PM »
Alligators in the fw and poison ivy and thorny rose bushes in the rough (with no drop allowed)......that's the ticket, yeah!  You want to make a course tougher?  That would do it.  Want to distract golfers, alligators would do it, as would blaring music, randomly timed air horns, or something.  The list of making a course mentally more challenging is endless, if you don't let a little thing like golf tradition get in the way.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Defenseless Medinah
« Reply #123 on: August 25, 2019, 02:46:59 PM »
East Lake is certainly playing tougher than Medinah, which I never would have ever believed possible. Not that I know all that much...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken