Portush to Replace Lytham and/or Muirfield?

[jeffwarne]

Watching Lytham on TV right now
certainly doesn't need replacing in the rota.


The announcers perhaps do though
20 seconds in Lanny Wadkins say it's in as good a condition as it's ever been
"It's as green as I've ever seen it"


He should have seen St Annes Old Links down the street on Monday-fiery and what I would decribe as perfectly "unconditioned"
additionally 23 mph sustained with gusts considerably higher on Monday.


One minute later Peter Jacobsen "I like Lytham because"...wait for it..."it's all out i front of you"


and his constant references to "true links" because 9 is the furthest point from the clubhouse (I guess Palmetto and Augusta CC where I grew up are "true links"


Now they just mentioned "tough conditions" -it's 89 degrees and there's barely a breath of wind(edit-12mph as the storm is approaching). The course is obviously tough as scores aren't crazy low, but more in an indoor sort've way via tough rough(point and shoot), not linksy weather or fiery fairways (gave up on fiery greens years ago and now they control fway irrigation)


Very difficult to se how the rank and file fan will ever get it with knucklehead comments like that being the norm.


mute button applied-just as the lightning horn goes off-how ironic on a variety of fronts.


As an aside-my son's and mine golf clubs were lost via the airlines late last week and we stopped in at Royal Lytham to buy some hats/stuff and Simon Avery, a professional there hooked us up with clubs so my son could at least enjoy his time there before  he caddied for me on the weekend and Monday. His clubs never showed and he used the borrowed clubs Thursday and Friday-I played 9 holes Thursday with the borrowed clubs but thankfully mine arrived by Friday afternoon,.
Shout out to Simon-great hospitality and a great course.
Would've like to have been playing but they took 12 qualifiers from St. Annes(actually a lot)....not 58

[Duncan Cheslett]

The Open is only played in Great Britain

Nonsense. This year's Open was not played in Great Britain.


190px-British_biometric_passport by duncan cheslett, on Flickr

[David McIntosh]

There’s been a lot of momentum behind Portmarnock if they choose to accept Lady members.

Ally,

I haven’t heard anything about this except for on here, who is driving the momentum behind Portmarnock for the Open?


As Niall, said there are an abundance of high quality options in GB&NI already so it seems odd to me that they would consider breaking with tradition and taking it elsewhere, unless purely motivated by attendance figures (read revenues).

Far from what you are saying there, word on the grapevine is that the R&A are considering that it might be worth taking outside the UK. This could be wishful thinking on the part of the people talking about it though, even though some have strong R&A connections.

I know historically the Open has been held in GB&NI but is there anything in the R&A’s constitution or rules stating that has to be the case?

Jeff, that seems much more reasonable about three Opens at Portrush by 2040. I just couldn’t fathom what made it so special that they were talking about one every five years even before last weekend.

Couldn’t agree more regarding the spacing of a return, Ally. Of course, it was a good Open last week with a very interesting venue but the reaction seems to be completely over the top if there are calls for it to host 3 times in 11 years. I though things were possibly being viewed through rose-tinted glasses due to the home winner but obviously not if this was being discussed BEFORE last week.

[Thomas Dai]

Going to a new venue or returning to a reintroduced venue after a long time 2-3 times in a relatively short period of time is essentially about getting a return on the £££ that was invested in both golf and infrastructure when holding it there. Quick payback.


As to holding it somewhere other than GB&NI, The Open generates massive income. Why would you want that money to go from your country’s annual income to that of another country?


And as to other possible courses, think infrastructure, transportation, accommodation, spectators etc etc, politics even, before golf.

Atb

[David McIntosh]

As for attendances, Portrush was the first all ticket affair and Slumbers was quoted earlier in the year that the R&A intend to make the Open all ticket from now on. Once that gets better known wait to you see the scramble every year to get a ticket. By the time it gets back to Turnberry/Muirfield or where ever, sell outs will be routine.

Seems to be a clever marketing tactic to make it all ticket to create a fear of missing out and people flock to snap up tickets early.

Next year is a perfect example of the perception of limiting supply creating a run on tickets. Emails have been sent out saying that early bird pricing has ended (which used to be around January in the year of the next Open, not before the one in the current year has even started!) and tickets are selling out fast for RSG but the site at Sandwich is so vast and they’ve never sold out at previous Opens as far as I’m aware. The tournament has been held there plenty of times so there isn’t even the argument that there is an element of trial and error on capacity (and the requirement for a cap) as there was at Portrush after being away for so long.

I’m sure you’re right that even Turnberry will be sold out next time if it’s done on a ticketed basis, even if they will lose out on sales at the gate on the day which may be seen as inconsequential due to the clamour to get them well in advance before the event sells out.

[David McIntosh]

It seems like there is precedent for giving multiples to venues that haven't been used in awhile. Would that explain why RSG got two so close to each other? (1981, 1985)

I always wondered why it was held at RSG twice in such quick succession in 81 and 85. There were a few other instances of this, albeit not quite as regular as 2 in 5 years, such as Muirfield in 87 and 92 and Lytham in 74 and 79.

I suppose the pool they had to chose from during these periods wasn’t as wide given that Portrush, Hoylake and Carnoustie hadn’t returned to the “rota” and they were just choosing a host from the other 7 current venues.

[David McIntosh]

And as to other possible courses, think infrastructure, transportation, accommodation, spectators etc etc, politics even, before golf.

...exactly what we see with the Ryder Cup.

[Ryan Coles]

And both events a huge success.........

[Garland Bayley]

Turnberry is the least successful venue for revenues.


The Open is only played in Great Britain, if Scotland becomes independent then several venues will fall off the rota.

If they want to call it The Open Championship, then they best move it outside Great Britain from time to time. Otherwise, it is the British Open.

Since the bloody thing started in Scotland, we'll just have to get used to not having it at English locations.

[Duncan Cheslett]

If they want to call it The Open Championship, then they best move it outside Great Britain from time to time. Otherwise, it is the British Open.

Since the bloody thing started in Scotland, we'll just have to get used to not having it at English locations.

As I pointed out earlier, this year's Open was not held in Great Britain. It was however, held in the United Kingdom.


I take your wider point though.


The Open is the championship of the R&A, not any national golf organisation. The R&A has spread its tentacles of control of golf from its roots in Scotland to cover most of the world.


Logic would suggest then, that the Open Championship could (and maybe should) be played in any part of the world which falls within the R&A's auspices. I am sure that this is the argument which will be used if or when Scotland becomes a country independent of the UK. 


The convention that it is played only on links courses narrows the options down a little. How many links courses of high enough quality outside the UK have the necessary space and infrastructure to hold The Open?

[Sean_A]

Exactly why would the R&A hold their premier event outside of GB&I?

Does anybody think the term "open" refers to the location of the event?

The tournament is called The Open Championship for a reason. Research that reason.

If the R&A is about anything it is money. The Open is a brand which is not only correct, it sounds far better than The British Open. Has anyone ever seen that used for marketing? If so, it was short lived because its an awful name to market compared to The Open.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

Exactly why would the R&A hold their premier event outside of GB&I?

If the R&A is about anything it is money.

And if there was an obvious candidate for hosting The Open on the coast of France, Holland, or Germany I have no doubt that the R&A would be interested.


As it happens, all the suitable courses are in GB&I.  There is no logical reason why it should not be held in the Republic of Ireland.

[Sean_A]

In golfing terms, GB&I does include the Republic. If a suitable venue could be targeted, I wouldn't be surprised if The Open went to Ireland. Although, I am not convinced there is a suitable candidate, same for Wales.

Germany? Is there a more likely venue in Europe than Portmarnock or Porthcawl? That is beside the feel bad factor of allowing a major event which generates serious cash to be gifted to a non-GB&I country.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Amateur Championship was held outside GB&NI this year so that - to some extent - shows that the R&A are open to the idea.


There has been talk that they may move The Open around a little to show their global reach. But I’m not sure how serious these ideas being thrown around are?


And outside Ireland - where there is an obvious choice - I’m not sure what links courses could fit the bill without serious alterations. Perhaps Noordwijkse...

[jeffwarne]

The Amateur Championship was held outside GB&NI this year so that - to some extent - shows that the R&A are open to the idea.


There has been talk that they may move The Open around a little to show their global reach. But I’m not sure how serious these ideas being thrown around are?


And outside Ireland - where there is an obvious choice - I’m not sure what links courses could fit the bill without serious alterations. Perhaps Noordwijkse...

Nothing would disappoint me more than if the Open Champinship were to leave the links courses of GB and Ireland.

[Bernie Bell]

Wales? 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Wales?

They are still trying to find a way for Porthcawl. There is another solution better a bit further on but it needs someone like a Mike Keisser to put some meat on the bones.


Portmarnock makes perfect sense. I think Ireland is still considered part of the same 'country', for golf we are Great Britain and Ireland. I can't think it would go to another country though.

[Garland Bayley]

Exactly why would the R&A hold their premier event outside of GB&I?

If they want to refer to it at "The Open" as if it is a unique and singular event in the world, then perhaps they should take it outside their little pair of islands.

Does anybody think the term "open" refers to the location of the event?

I doubt it. However, Wikipedia doesn't even think it is an open event. "It is called the Open, because it is in theory "open" to all, i.e professional and amateur golfers. In practice, the current event is a professional tournament in which a small number of the world’s leading amateurs also play"

The tournament is called The Open Championship for a reason. Research that reason.

Maybe they should refer to it as "The First Open Championship"

If the R&A is about anything it is money. The Open is a brand which is not only correct, it sounds far better than The British Open. Has anyone ever seen that used for marketing?

It is used all the time by American TV networks promoting their broadcast of "The Open Championship"

If so, it was short lived because its an awful name to market compared to The Open.

When talking about golf stateside, when you refer to the open, everyone believe you to be referring to the US Open. If you want to disambiguate to refer to The Open Championship, you say the British Open. So the name is not so short lived. So there is a good chance that world wide more people know it as the British Open.
Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Nothing would disappoint me more than if the Open Champinship were to leave the links courses of GB and Ireland.

I think they should move their senior open to Humewood in South Africa, and get you to expose yourself to a larger travel itinerary.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't think the R&A is obligated to do anything....but...

If their goal is to "grow the game", then I don't see how that is accomplished by remaining in the UK, as far more growth potential resides outside of that area...

[jeffwarne]

Nothing would disappoint me more than if the Open Champinship were to leave the links courses of GB and Ireland.

I think they should move their senior open to Humewood in South Africa, and get you to expose yourself to a larger travel itinerary.

what and not get to sneak away in July?

[Sean_A]

Exactly why would the R&A hold their premier event outside of GB&I?

If they want to refer to it at "The Open" as if it is a unique and singular event in the world, then perhaps they should take it outside their little pair of islands.

Does anybody think the term "open" refers to the location of the event?

I doubt it. However, Wikipedia doesn't even think it is an open event. "It is called the Open, because it is in theory "open" to all, i.e professional and amateur golfers. In practice, the current event is a professional tournament in which a small number of the world’s leading amateurs also play"

The tournament is called The Open Championship for a reason. Research that reason.

Maybe they should refer to it as "The First Open Championship"

If the R&A is about anything it is money. The Open is a brand which is not only correct, it sounds far better than The British Open. Has anyone ever seen that used for marketing?

It is used all the time by American TV networks promoting their broadcast of "The Open Championship"

If so, it was short lived because its an awful name to market compared to The Open.

When talking about golf stateside, when you refer to the open, everyone believe you to be referring to the US Open. If you want to disambiguate to refer to The Open Championship, you say the British Open. So the name is not so short lived. So there is a good chance that world wide more people know it as the British Open.
Ciao

Maybe the R&A will one day choose a non-GB&I venue, but that had nothing to do with the name of the tournament.

Anybody good enough on the right days can qualify to play in The Open.

How folks refer to the US Open is irrelevant. Things may be confusing, but that is often the case with ill-informed people.

The TV folks are on notice not to use the term British Open. It spoils the brand and is incorrect in more ways than one.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Maybe the R&A will one day choose a non-GB&I venue, but that had nothing to do with the name of the tournament.

It has to do with the English language and the usage of the article "the." Use of that article implies a singular event. If it is going to be singular, it had better have the widest scope so it can justify using that article. To have the widest scope, it needs to be world-wide. I look forward to The Open Championship being held at Humewood in South Africa, Bandon in the USA, etc., so it can lay claim to their world wide stature. Or, maybe it is "the aggressive foisting of my culture on other nations, as the British have done for centuries." (Golf Digest)

Anybody good enough on the right days can qualify to play in The Open.

That conveniently ignores the fact that most of the players get many chances to qualify, while a few get a chance by playing on 'the right days." If all the players had to qualify on "the right days" the field would be significantly different.

How folks refer to the US Open is irrelevant. Things may be confusing, but that is often the case with ill-informed people.

You are beginning to match Golf Digest's description of the situation. "Someone -- usually one of her majesty's citizens or an overzealous American -- informs you in a pedantic tone that it's actually called "The Open Championship," and that using the word "British" is inaccurate, boorish, and a decorum violation somewhere on the spectrum between 'vulgar' and 'barbaric.'"

The TV folks are on notice not to use the term British Open. It spoils the brand and is incorrect in more ways than one.

Branding? As far as i am concerned, marketers and their branding can get stuffed where the sun don't shine.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

It's called The Open, not The Only Open. That said, The Open is a singular event. Name an event that has similar importance, played on links, using such an exhaustive qualification system.

It isn't the R&A's job to  make sure every golfer has an equal chance to qualify. It's their job to provide opportunities to qualify and on that score there are tons of opportunities to qualify, but, yes, one does need be an excellent golfer and turn up at the right places at the right times.

It's sounds as if you are the one who is having difficulty accepting the rightful name of a tournament based on reasons, which when questioned, don't hold water.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Sean,

Just saying it will always be known as the British Open here stateside, no matter how much the R&A tries to stuff their pretentious name down the world's throat. That's not me not accepting. That's me stating the truth of the matter.