Distances within Scotland

[Peter Pratt]

I'm beginning to plan a trip to Scotland. Could anyone give me any idea of miles/hours between Troon and St. Andrews, St. Andrews and Cruden Bay, Cruden Bay and Dornoch?

Thanks!

[Bob_Farrell]

Peter:

From Troon to St Andrews is about 3 hours. St Andrews to Cruden Bay about 1 3/4, Cruden Bay to Dornoch about 2 1/2, but all of those times are if you have:

a) driven on the left before

and

b) drive pretty fast

Other wise it may take up to an hour more for each one.


BF

[Peter Pratt]

Thanks very much, Bob!

[Mike Hendren]

Peter,

Having recently survived the roundabouts and opposite side driving/steering, I implore you to rent a vehicle with automatic transmission.  

I recently followed this advice from Lou Duran and am confident HE SAVED MY LIFE.  

Thanks Lou!

Mike

[lesueur]

Peter
Look at this link.

http://www.theaa.com/travelwatch/planner_main.jsp

Give the starting point and end destination and it will show the best route, map and travel time (at the legal speed limit). Nudge over the limit to reduce the time - oh and watch out for sheep any further north than Aberdeen.

Richard.

[Sr Fortson]

I am leaving tomorrow for 16 days in Scotland and got my auto travel plans thru TheAA.com website.  Cruden Bay to Dornoch is 150 miles, Dornoch to St Andrews is 177 miles, and St Andrews back to Cruden Bay is 102 miles.  I agree if you haven't driven over there before that you should get an automatic.  Roads and signage are for the most part very good.  Roundabouts are great, once you get the hang of them.  Good luck and good golf.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would add a little to those times, especially if it is your first time to drive in the UK. I think the time to get around Aberdeen is time of the day driven too.

[David_Tepper]

Unless a healthy portion of any of the legs of your trip are on a 4-lane highway (dual carriageway), I would figure on averaging about 40 miles an hour, maybe 50 mph if you catch a break with traffic. The roads from Cruden Bay to Dornoch run thru a number of small towns and villages that can really slow you down (local traffic, stoplights, etc.). Figure on missing one or two turnoffs and stopping once or twice for directions as well.
I have always driven a stick shift car living for 30+ years in San Francisco and have always rented the same on my trips to the British Isles without any problems. Just be sure you know whether or not they have given you a diesel engine car when you pick it up at the rental desk in Scotland!
Have a great trip.

[Bob_Huntley]

From time to time the rental agencies will offer you a Renault or Peugeot, if they do, remember to get instructions on getting the gear shift into reverse. I saw a poor guy spend a good ten minutes getting apoplexy in the parking lot at Inverness. Lift the gear shift knob and then move it into the slot.

This particular device was engineered into most French cars to piss off Americans on their first visit to Paris.

[Peter Pratt]

Thanks, gentlemen, for all the advice--please keep it coming.

A new question: Is it reasonable to play 9-10 courses in 12-14 days. Say the Old Course, Kingsbarns, and Carnoustie, then Troon, Turnberry, and Prestwick; then Cruden Bay, Aberdeen or Nairn, and Dornoch--not necessarily in that order, but in those 3 clusters? I left out Muirfield because I don't suspect I'll be able to get on it. Would you suggest alternatives--Gleneagles (King's) or North Berwick? I don't think I'll have time to get to Macrihanish.

[SteveC]

Definitely North Berwick and Guillane, if you can't make Muirfield.

Brora is a real treat if you end up having a spare half-day while in Dornoch - it's a half-hour drive, as I recall, and really fun to play, what with the livestock and electric fencing around greens. Remember the local rule there - you may play like shit, but you don't have to play out of it.

[Nick_Ficorelli]

Hire Willie Wallace at http://www.celticlegend.co.uk. and he'll get you everywhere and increase your enjoyment tenfold.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

You should be able to play 9-10 courses in 12-14 days.  You might want to consider a round at Moray Golf Club in Lossiemouth.  #18 is one of the great finishing holes.  TRy to play on a day when the RAF is not flying.  Sunday woould be good.  

I second the vote for Brora!

Your navigator should have the job of CONSTANTLY reminding you to look right(not left).

I did almost the same drive from Dornoch to North Berwick with stops in St Andrew and Cruden Bay about three weeks ago. Have a fabulous trip.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

That is no problem. Play drive, play, play drive. it works like a charm.

[David_Tepper]

Peter-

As I have gotten older, I have become a big believer in the "less is more" school of golf travel: travel less, play less courses, but play at least some of those courses more than once and have more fun! Instead of playing 9-10 courses, moving in and out of a B&B every other days, think about staying in the same place for 3 or 4 nites, playing 5 or 6 courses, but playing each course twice.

It sounds like you are playing golf in about 5 or more regions of Scotland. If you are going to Cruden Bay, you should think about playing Royal Aberdeen and Murcar or just playing Cruden Bay a 2nd or 3rd time.

I realize Dornoch is very tempting, but to drive up there for a day and play Nairn on your way up or back could be more effort than it is worth. It is a 4-hour drive from Dornoch to Edinburgh. With the 8 hours you spend driving up and back to Dornoch, you could get 2 more rounds in at the other courses already on your agenda.

Save the Highlands courses for another trip. Between Boat of Garten, Nairn, Lossiemouth, Tain, Brora, Dornoch, Golspie, Fortrose & Rosemarkie, Skibo Castle, etc., spending a week in the Dornoch area is well worth while all by itself.  

Just a suggestion to consider.

DT  

[peter_p]

My rule of thumb was every time I got in the car wait until another car goes by before going onto a public road. If you're in a roundabout and miss a turn just make another revolution.
Signage is excellent, look for major towns in you direction of travel and highway route numbers. "L" are learner plates, they should have "T" for tourist. Buy stock in gas companies so you'll feel better when filling up. Might invest in insurance companies also. Rent a car two sizes bigger than your think necessary. In addition to golf courses, there are distilleries in Scotland. Glenmorangie in Tain enroute to Dornoch, or antyhing in the Spey valley.

[Bob_Huntley]

Dave Tepper,

Wise counsel, I would rather stay and play Dornoch three or four times than drive hours to another venue.

Pick out the ne plus ultra and stick to 'em. Unless one's spouse is in need of some TLC forget Gleneagles, you can duplicate that in Colorado.

Bob

[Doug Siebert]

I wouldn't do the "rent two sizes bigger than you think necessary" thing unless you are going with several people and worried about all your luggage fitting.  The smaller the better over there, as the roads are quite narrow out in the sticks, especially up north.  Us Americans used to lanes almost wide enough for two cars to fit in side by side feel a bit claustrophobic at first at the narrowness of the lanes on winding country roads with walls/hedges on either side.  I am pretty sure that the term "hedging" as in "hedging your bets" came from drivers brushing the left side of their car into the hedges due to fear that the local coming around the curve at you at 70mph might not stay on their side of the road

I concur with the advice to rent an automatic unless you are positive you'll be able to handle driving on the wrong side, shifting with the wrong hand, negotating roundabouts and other stuff we don't often see in the US along with attempting to read road signs and argue with whoever is in the car with you whether you've already missed the turn and should turn back or give it a couple more miles to be sure.

Oh, and if you are in North Berwick and have a couple spare hours and it isn't too foggy, you owe it to yourself to walk up to the top of North Berwick Law, enjoy the spectacular view of the town, surrounding countryside and the sea, while wondering just how in the heck they got the whale's jawbone all the way up there.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm planning an epochal trip in May 2004, and have found and purchased a really great book on Scottish golf for the traveler:  "Golf in Scotland:A Travel-Planning Guide with Profiles of 60 Great Courses" by Allan McAllister Ferguson. This book can be purchased most reasonably from Mr. Ferguson at www.fergusongolf.com

Here is a listing of driving times from his book:

Edinburgh-North Berwick  45 min
Edinburgh-St Andrews  1 hr
St Andrews-Carnoustie  1 hr
St Andrews-North Berwick  2 hrs
St Andrews-Gleneagles 1 hr 15 min
St Andrews-Troon  2 hrs 45 min
Glasgow-Edinburgh 1 hr
Glasgow-Troon  45 min
Glasgow-St Andrews 2 hrs
Glasgow-Inverness 3 hrs 30 min
Glasgow-Aberdeen 3 hrs
Inverness-Dornoch 55 min
Inverness-Aberdeen 3+hrs
Inverness-Machrihanish 6+hrs
Carnoustie-Aberdeen 1hr30 min
Aberdeen-Cruden Bay 35 min
Cruden Bay-Inverness 3 hrs
Aberdeen-St Andrews 2 hrs 15 min
Dornoch-Tain  10 min
Dornoch-Golspie 15 min
Dornoch-Brora 25 min

(anyone disputing these times or otherwise dissenting should do so via email to Mr. Ferguson; Mr. McBride cannot argue one way or 'tother.)

Ferguson's book is crammed full of good advice on courses to play, itineraries, accomodations.  He really debunks tour operators as costing probably double the raw cost of golf, travel and accomodations.  

In honor of Bob Huntley, he says, and I quote, "Hats off!  Remember to take your hat off upon entering the clubhouse.  Failure to do so is a pet peeve of the Scots."

He suggests taking a 2' to 3' bungee cord to secure your bag to rented trolleys, because most don't have a method to do so.

He ranks the St Andrews courses Old, New, Jubilee, Eden.

He is very appreciative of the Glen Course , or East Links at North Berwick, as worthy of part of a 36 hole day in North Berwick.  "Briefly stated, I have never played a more enjoyable eighteen holes in Scotland."  Panoramic ocean views encompassing the coastal south, monumental Bass Rock, and the Kingdom of Fife to the north.

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Peter,

I don't know if you've ever driven in England, but my sister (who spent a year there a while back) gave me this advice before my trip:

"Keep the steering wheel in the middle of the road".

I thought she was kidding... "Ha ha!"

But she was serious, and it's probably the best driving tip I got.

Forget about left side, right side.  IT GETS VERY CONFUSING VERY FAST.  Think about it.  You're in the right lane to turn right at a roundabout so go in the left hand lane not the right and stay on the left side then turn left but look at your right and got around turning left all the way with your destination to your right then left with cars to your right and others merging on your left and did you remember to signal?!!!?!?

Forget all that.  Just keep the steering wheel in the middle of the road.  (It's one less left-right" to think about")

[Matthew Delahunty]

Peter,

Most places will take longer to get to than you think.

If you're going to stay in the east then you could get in 9-10 courses on your stay. Travelling up north to Dornoch is going to take up time unless you start up there (say fly into Inverness) and work down the east coast. Playing Machrihanish is a similar scenario. You driving is doubled because they are both remote and you have to drive there and come back on the road you took to get there. The bonus if you there's some fantastic things to do and see there if you go to those places for things other than just golf. The trip to Machrihanish is longer than you think as the roads out that way are quite as wide and straight and you'll end up stuck behind some slow truck. If you limit yourself to the east then you're able to base yourself somewhere within an hour's drive of 10 courses, which is a far better option if all you want to do is play golf. And you'll enjoy the golf more without having to drive around so much.

Having said all that I'd highly recommend Dornoch. If you spend 2 days up there in high summer you could play Dornoch twice, Brora and one of the other top courses in that part of the world.

[Bob_Farrell]

Peter:

Dave Tepper is right. You're much better off staying several days in a region and taking advantage of the variety of courses that are nearby. You are looking to play 9-10 rounds in 12-14 days when the trips that I have made, 9 of them, I would look to play 18-20 rounds in the saame period.

The one great thing about Scotland is that you're never far from an interesting course and it's usually not too hard to get on them. Instead of playing and jumping in the car, settle in to a place for 3-4 days and make arrangements at several local courses. There are a whole host of them.

If you rush the process you will not enjoy it as much as you would otherwise.

BF

[Peter Pratt]

Thanks for the great advice, gentlemen!

How difficult is it to get on Muirfield?

[Bob_Farrell]

Peter:

Extremely and virtually impossible as a single unless you stay at the Greywalls Hotel adjoining the club. And getting a reservation there is no easy feat either.

BF

[Mike Hendren]

Peter,

Why grovel to play a trophy when the geniune article is five minutes away in North Berwick?

Regards,

Mike