Standard deviation of green sizes on a given course

[John Connolly]

What it would it mean to see a course with widely variant green sizes? Understanding that you build what you need for that green site based on topography and oft touted principles of strategic play (e.g. smaller greens for par 5s), I wonder if designers try to create a surface area trend course-wide? I think it would be interesting as heck to measure the standard deviation of greens sizes of courses that are beloved and compare them to those that are generally considered mundane. The three potential results would be:


1 - there is no significant difference in green size standard deviation between good and mediocre courses
2 - there is more variance around the central tendency in better courses
3 - there is more variance around the central tendency in lesser courses

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think this was a good question that went unanswered.


I don’t have stats but I suspect someone like Jeff Brauer might.


I do like courses where greens appear to be of the same family. Whilst variety in size is important, my first preference is that they do work as a group.

[Tom_Doak]

One of the things i like most about Pacific Dunes is the variety of green sizes.  The sixth and eleventh and sixteenth seem much tougher targets because some of the others are twice as big.


I agree with Ally that all should feel like part of a family, but i think there is more room for variation within the family thsn most architects typically provide.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I grew up on a course designed in the forties(?) where the smallest greens were par fives. The pro told me that par fives have small greens to make it more difficult to hit the green in two and that the third shot is usually with a short iron where accuracy is demanded.

[Paul Jones]

I find really famous courses could be even better if they had more variety on green sizes. Pebble Beach and TCC Brookline come to mind.

[Jay Mickle]

If  “variety is the spice of life” Old Town Club will put a smile on your face with the postage stamp size 7th green followed by the huge 8th/17th double green.

[Jeff Schley]

Green sizes are a wonderful way to vary a course from day to day.  Particularly length of greens which give more pinable locations that cause a different club for ab approach.  As I pointed out I just played the European Club which has the 127 yard 12 the green which certainly even accounting for roll out easily has 3 or more clubs difference depending on the pin location.  Now that is extreme but having more length in the green forces a different club and also brings in lag putting as a more valued skilled.




Not all courses have this luxury but those that do I enjoy.

[Tom_Doak]

Green sizes are a wonderful way to vary a course from day to day.  Particularly length of greens which give more pinable locations that cause a different club for ab approach.  As I pointed out I just played the European Club which has the 127 yard 12 the green which certainly even accounting for roll out easily has 3 or more clubs difference depending on the pin location.  Now that is extreme but having more length in the green forces a different club and also brings in lag putting as a more valued skilled.

Not all courses have this luxury but those that do I enjoy.

I think having a lot of big greens is boring.  Sure, there's more variety of clubbing, but there is a lot less variety of recovery shots around the green, and a lot more 50+ foot putts.


I do not mind that so much at The Old Course, because the double greens are mostly wide and shallow, and having a long putt is usually the result of aiming further away from the trouble on the left.  In other words, it's strategic.  But big greens are usually not strategic unless they are closely guarded in multiple spots.

[Carl Rogers]

One of the things i like most about Pacific Dunes is the variety of green sizes.  The sixth and eleventh and sixteenth seem much tougher targets because some of the others are twice as big.


I agree with Ally that all should feel like part of a family, but i think there is more room for variation within the family thsn most architects typically provide.

Riverfront exemplifies this idea of theme & variation.

[Jeff Schley]

Green sizes are a wonderful way to vary a course from day to day.  Particularly length of greens which give more pinable locations that cause a different club for ab approach.  As I pointed out I just played the European Club which has the 127 yard 12 the green which certainly even accounting for roll out easily has 3 or more clubs difference depending on the pin location.  Now that is extreme but having more length in the green forces a different club and also brings in lag putting as a more valued skilled.

Not all courses have this luxury but those that do I enjoy.

I think having a lot of big greens is boring.  Sure, there's more variety of clubbing, but there is a lot less variety of recovery shots around the green, and a lot more 50+ foot putts.


I do not mind that so much at The Old Course, because the double greens are mostly wide and shallow, and having a long putt is usually the result of aiming further away from the trouble on the left.  In other words, it's strategic.  But big greens are usually not strategic unless they are closely guarded in multiple spots.

I didn't say a lot of big greens, just that they added to the variability of course setup with various club selection from one day to the next and depending on prevailing wind.  Lag putting at TOC is at a premium certainly, even from off the green since they don't really have rough around the greens.