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Richard Fisher

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A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« on: May 30, 2019, 06:24:14 AM »
The usual band of tourists from the Gogs in Cambridge found their way to Cumbria this spring, following outings to South Wales, Northumberland, and Sussex in recent years, and had a wonderful time, in glorious weather. Indeed, as of last week this whole Cumbrian coastline desperately needed rain, which is not (I suspect) a statement made very often.

Anyway we started, following the Arble recommendation, at Appleby, which I can't endorse warmly enough as a fun, playable, rustic golf course with moorland turf, stunning views, consistently interesting green sites, and a surprisingly substantial clubhouse complex with good catering ( I had been expecting more in common with the tiny pavilions of rural Wales). The fact that at Sean's stand-out 15th I hit the teeshot to two feet for a birdie may have influenced my response, but all of my friends really enjoyed the round on a spring Sunday afternoon, played in wonderful quiet and solitude. For anybody driving from the south-east towards the west of Scotland and looking for a slightly different sort of golfing stop-off en route, Appleby absolutely hits the spot.

As, of course, and at an altogether higher level of golfing pleasure, does Silloth, where we played 36 holes the next day. I hadn't been to Silloth in nearly two decades, since when it has been 'discovered' (not least by GCA), but it's still amazing value and an enchanting golf course. Not over-long, and with not much space to expand, but with no weak holes and a succession of fascinating shots to some brilliant greens. Anthony Shone of Hoylake always cites Silloth as somewhere you could show a complete non-golfer 'what golf is all about', and he or she would get the point, and certainly on a sunny, windy Monday every facet of our game was in evidence. It was (very) dry, and the fairways very tight indeed, and everybody we spoke to wanted rain, urgently (I suspect it has come over the past few days).

Silloth is a very economical walk, and the fact that everybody (aged between 55 and 70) came smiling off the course after 36 holes of quite competitive golf speaks volumes. I won't add to the various Silloth threads already on GCA, other than to say that I can't think of a better day's golf for the green fee charged anywhere in the UK. Catering again friendly and generous.

The last seaside stop on our Cumbrian adventure was Seascale, where again GCA visitors have been active. Another 36 holes on another bright and increasingly breezy day, and again we really enjoyed ourselves, although inevitably anywhere would seem slightly tame compared to Silloth the day before. Parts of the opening, on the rising ground, reminded me of Porthcawl, and other bits were closer to Prestwick, but even the rather more inland hole towards Sellafield Power Station had a splendid green site, and overall we were impressed, even if we thought that some of the holes (including the 18th) didn't perhaps quite work, and it's certainly not somewhere you would want to play on a very busy day.

Sitting in the chandeliered clubhouse, with the new and rather grand 'Nineteenth' facility just opened in adjacent rooms, we did wonder what Seascale had been like prior to the advent of Sellafield, and further research reveals that it was indeed the swanky small resort on this bit of coastline, with very substantial lodging houses of the sort that are clearly visible from the 18th fairway. The 'small' clubhouse fish and chips, by the way, was enough to satisfy even the neediest of our party.

That was the end of our seaside odyssey, and we returned to Cambridge with a stop-off at Sand Moor (Leeds) on the way home. After the quiet of Cumbria, this was a big, busy, suburban golf club and I strongly suspect (as do other GCA commentators on Sand Moor) that this was a better and more consistent golf course prior to the sale of land, loss of four holes, and clubhouse removal, than in its current incarnation, which has perhaps a dozen good holes (especially the short ones) but another six which were amongst the least distinguished we played on the entire trip.

Anyway, Cumbria itself had been blissful. Based in the Allerdale Court Hotel in Cockermouth (excellent golfer's lodgings) the cost of the whole trip including 108 holes of golf, accommodation, meals, and copious beverages of various kinds, came to less than £600 all up. Amazing value, in a part of the UK where portion control is but a distant rumour. Thanks, as always, to GCA friends for leading us to some courses which we might otherwise have missed, and I would say to American visitors to these shores looking for the Real Seaside Thing that (as with Wales) Cumbria provides a fabulous, quiet, great-value alternative to some of the more stored destinations of Scotland and Ireland.

Thomas Dai

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 11:13:03 AM »
Thanks for sharing this Richard.
We don’t really have to look that hard to find quality and accessible golf courses in the U.K. Although it can be easy to forget, we really are fortunate in so many ways.
Atb

Niall C

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 09:03:57 AM »
Richard

Excellent stuff. Appleby and Silloth are both great in there own individual ways, even if in the case of Appleby it isn't in any conventional sense.

Seascale - I'm still kicking myself that I never bothered to play it while down there. One day......

Let me throw in a couple of other courses in that neck of the woods that are well worth a play. Carlisle - in truth not the friendliest of clubs in my experience but then they don't go out of there way to be friendly but neither are they unfriendly. A bit like most suburban clubs to be honest. The course however is a bit of a gem. A parkland course that according to the clubs website was designed (and presumably constructed ?) by Dr MacKenzies brother Charles in the mid 1930's with subsequent changes by Theodore Moon. Philip MacKenzie Ross remodelled the course at the end of WWII. Quite a few elevational changes without being a hike with some fantastic holes and lovely par 3's.

The other course is Talkin Tarn at Brampton which isn't too far away. It's a James Braid course over a more testing landscape but worth the effort especially if you want to see something a wee bit different.

Niall

BCrosby

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 09:17:08 AM »
I love these threads on off-the-grid courses. I am taking notes.






Bob

Peter Pallotta

Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 10:46:24 AM »
I love these threads on off-the-grid courses. I am taking notes
Bob
And plus, they always leave me wanting to talk like a character from a Dickens' novel:
'I have been infomed, by sources of the highest kind, of a junior position with a new vested interest which, if obtained, would provide Master Robert with a full 6p and 15s a week'...
'Master Robert? Oh, well that's *you* Bob!'

Niall C

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 11:16:07 AM »
I love these threads on off-the-grid courses. I am taking notes
Bob
And plus, they always leave me wanting to talk like a character from a Dickens' novel:
'I have been infomed, by sources of the highest kind, of a junior position with a new vested interest which, if obtained, would provide Master Robert with a full 6p and 15s a week'...
'Master Robert? Oh, well that's *you* Bob!'

Thanks for that

BCrosby

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 11:58:27 AM »
So yes, as the Uriah Heep of GCA, I seek out the 'umblest of golf courses, the playing of which would be a great honour for this 'umble man.


More seriously, a Wales and Cumbria trip sounds appealing. I have not visited either region.   


Bob

Thomas Dai

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 03:57:28 PM »
More seriously, a Wales ....trip sounds appealing. I have not visited ....   
Bob
You must, you must, you must!!

Milking cows in every field, sheep on every hill and Welshmen and women and children singing at every opportunity - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW8iIVYQcUY - :) :) :) :)
Quality golf too, and not just the usual suspect bigger name courses either, but rural and rustics and hidden gems aplenty.
atb
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 03:59:33 PM by Thomas Dai »

Sean_A

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 04:47:44 AM »
Richard

Thanks for the report. I am pleased you enjoyed Appleby. I have come to feel there is a certain spartan look with many of these back country courses. It's therefore understandable if folks don't warm to these courses.

I would like to see Seascale again. I recall thinking that it had the two best par 4s between it and Silloth. Plus the train is a pull for some unknown reason.

How is Huntercombe coming along?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 05:32:46 AM »
Richard

Thanks for the report. I am pleased you enjoyed Appleby. I have come to feel there is a certain spartan look with many of these back country courses. It's therefore understandable if folks don't warm to these courses.

I would like to see Seascale again. I recall thinking that it had the two best par 4s between it and Silloth. Plus the train is a pull for some unknown reason.

How is Huntercombe coming along?

Ciao


I found clear proof as part of my book researches last year that Seascale was designed by Colt. So it's perhaps not surprising if it is better than people expected.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 06:11:28 AM »
Richard

Thanks for the report. I am pleased you enjoyed Appleby. I have come to feel there is a certain spartan look with many of these back country courses. It's therefore understandable if folks don't warm to these courses.

I would like to see Seascale again. I recall thinking that it had the two best par 4s between it and Silloth. Plus the train is a pull for some unknown reason.

How is Huntercombe coming along?

Ciao

I found clear proof as part of my book researches last year that Seascale was designed by Colt. So it's perhaps not surprising if it is better than people expected.

Adam

Interesting, back in 2011 after playing the course I thought there were many Colt-like holes on the course and wrote he may have been involved.  Do you have any details?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 06:56:28 AM »

Both articles from the Yorkshire Post, first February 1932, second July 1933:




Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Clyde Johnson

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2019, 07:29:02 AM »
There's some good golf in Cumbria. My top-five would probably be:
1. Silloth
2. Seascale
3. Appleby
4. Brampton
5. Windermere


I've never played Stony Holme, Whitehaven, or St Bees, but find that there is much to like about all but a couple of the county's courses. Perhaps that's because of the diversity and familiarity of landscape.


Also worth stopping-by:
Carlisle - MacKenzie Ross parkland.
Cockermouth - Fell top Braid.
Dunnerholme - 10 hole links, with two holes onto and from a brief cliff top played on one loop.
Kendal - Fine views and funky, short seventeenth (semi-blind to blind) over a limestone outcrop.
Silverdale - Compact and wild, original 12 holes (technically Lancashire, but would play in CGU events.)
Workington - Parkland Braid.




Niall C

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 12:11:33 PM »
Clyde


I have a fondness for Stoney Holme. I would shy away from recommending it as it is a very basic muni that was laid out on top of a tip but as they said back in the day it has some very sporty hole. There are a couple of holes that don't really work but overall good fun if it is a bit tight in places.


I see Carlisle doesn't make your top 5. I haven't played Seascale but I'd definitely play Carlisle ahead of Appleby, Brampton and Windermere. Presumably it didn't float your boat for some reason or do you think the others are clearly better ?


Niall

Ben Stephens

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2019, 12:55:13 PM »
There's some good golf in Cumbria. My top-five would probably be:
1. Silloth
2. Seascale
3. Appleby
4. Brampton
5. Windermere


I've never played Stony Holme, Whitehaven, or St Bees, but find that there is much to like about all but a couple of the county's courses. Perhaps that's because of the diversity and familiarity of landscape.


Also worth stopping-by:
Carlisle - MacKenzie Ross parkland.
Cockermouth - Fell top Braid.
Dunnerholme - 10 hole links, with two holes onto and from a brief cliff top played on one loop.
Kendal - Fine views and funky, short seventeenth (semi-blind to blind) over a limestone outcrop.
Silverdale - Compact and wild, original 12 holes (technically Lancashire, but would play in CGU events.)
Workington - Parkland Braid.


http://www.stbeesgolfclub.co.uk/about/


St Bees is a sporting 9 holes course which is quite undulating and exposed. I went to the beach next to it as there was a submarine wreck there which is quite near the beach

Clyde Johnson

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2019, 05:14:22 PM »

I see Carlisle doesn't make your top 5. I haven't played Seascale but I'd definitely play Carlisle ahead of Appleby, Brampton and Windermere. Presumably it didn't float your boat for some reason or do you think the others are clearly better ?

Niall


Carlisle is a sound/good golf course, and there are hints of Tom Simpson's influence on MacKenzie Ross in some of those green complexes...but it's nothing particularly unusual, nor are there any real stand out holes.


There are moments at Appleby, Brampton and Windermere that make me go "Oh, that's cool!", or "Woah, I wasn't expecting that!?"...that for me makes them more compelling and worthy of a visit.

Richard Fisher

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2019, 04:21:08 AM »
Thanks to Adam for the splendid Seascale cuttings, and for the reminder that The Yorkshire Post was once second only to the Manchester Guardian in its importance (not least for sports coverage) amongst the non-Fleet-Street English press: JA Stout was of course a pre-war international golfer of great distinction. And I agree with Sean about the railway, although some of my Gogs friends were curiously uninterested in the fact that semaphore signals still predominate on this stretch of line...

Interesting how substantial the clubhouse and catering operations were throughout Cumbria, in contrast (say) to some of my usual Welsh haunts and especially Borth, where everything is now pretty much member-assisted with limited bar hours. To echo Thomas Dai, Harlech, Aberdovey and Borth is likewise a fabulous tour, with some gorgeous drives and/or train rides between the courses.

To answer Sean's PS, much clearance still going on at Huntercombe, and long-list vistas are gradually reappearing, which is terrific. But obviously a good deal of foliage remains.

Mark Pearce

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2019, 04:35:46 AM »
To answer Sean's PS, much clearance still going on at Huntercombe, and long-list vistas are gradually reappearing, which is terrific. But obviously a good deal of foliage remains.
Played there on Wednesday and the clearance work continues to improve the place.  I also liked the changes to 16, though wonder if the earth works on the inside of the dogleg couldn't be even more dramatic, with some of the square corners and flat tops that distinguish some of the existing stuff around, say, 7 and 17 greens.  It is a wonderful place to play golf and just getting better....
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: A Cumbrian Tour 2019
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2019, 07:38:21 AM »
I was at Huntercombe yesterday (as, by coincidence, was OCGS) and had a fun round with Tim Lobb.


He and I were both agreed that the new pits on sixteen need a haircut. Mark, I suspect that the lack of sharpness you diagnose is to do with how they are vegetated. That will take time to sort.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.