“I will never be an apologist for being an entertainer on the golf course.”

[Ben Sims]

As I was being a senior millennial and perusing my social media, I scrolled past a Charles Schwab ad. In it, David Kidd is describing his ethos as it applies to course difficulty. The parting shot is the quote above.


Maybe it’s the unseasonable Colorado weather or the dinner martini, but damned if that quote didn’t resonate in both good and bad tones.


I’d like to explore what we as golfers expect from golf course architects as it applies to entertainment. DMK asserts that difficulty may not be part of that equation. Others do.


I don’t wanto speak for our numerous architects in this site, but I’m not so sure that they would agree with David Kidd’s application of the term “entertainer.” 

[Kalen Braley]

Ben what was the context of the Schawb ad?  Perhaps that might bring it into focus a bit...

P.S.  Maybe they can work out a marketing agreement with Maximus Decimus Meridius and put out some marketing material at the 19th hole of his courses...

[Ben Sims]

Ben what was the context of the Schawb ad?  Perhaps that might bring it into focus a bit...

Context? What context do any of these financial ads have? I’m trying to find a link for the ad but as a senior millennial, my search skills are not the best. My assumption is the context is a golf architect talking about golf architecture to make someone intrigued to check out Schwab. I seem to remember a connection between Schwab and Nanea (which DMK designed), but I could be wrong. 

[Kalen Braley]

This is a very interesting video where DMK goes into a lot of detail...and he provides context to his apologist statement.

https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/public/corporatesponsorships/challengers-video-david-kidd.html


P.S.  The CS tie in is at the end.  "Ask Questions. Be Engaged."

[Ben Sims]

This is a very interesting video where DMK goes into a lot of detail...and he provides context to his apologist statement.

https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/public/corporatesponsorships/challengers-video-david-kidd.html


P.S.  The CS tie in is at the end.  "Ask Questions. Be Engaged."

Look I’m just going to say it...how could you watch that video and not think he’s a good dude that has a solid idea of what golf courses can be? Maybe the cinematographer and editors got me. 

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not at all, I thought it was very well done and agreed with most of what he said.

P.S.  I watched it a 2nd time, and my only beef was them  slipping in a few shots of Pac Dunes holes and implicitly making the viewer think they were his. 

[Kalen Braley]

This next video, almost deserves its own thread.

They also did a spot with Mike K which is also a good watch.

https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/public/corporatesponsorships/challengers-video-mike-keiser.html

[Ben Sims]

I'm not at all, I thought it was very well done and agreed with most of what he said.

P.S.  I watched it a 2nd time, and my only beef was them  slipping in a few shots of Pac Dunes holes and implicitly making the viewer think they were his. 

I’m pretty sure the 3:58 mark in your first link was Old Mac too.


A good buddy—always honest and astute on this subject—pointed out that DMK was rightly criticized for the difficulty of Tetherow and Castle Course around the greens. Despite past transgressions or changes in opinion, I really like what David Kidd said in these videos. 

[Ken Moum]

Look I’m just going to say it...how could you watch that video and not think he’s a good dude that has a solid idea of what golf courses can be? Maybe the cinematographer and editors got me.

No I think the words would be enough, despite the beauty of the images.



The only thing I know about Kidd's courses was learned in a tour of the Castle Course while it was still under construction.  I was pretty sure after that tour that I'd never play it.  And when I found out what the green fee was, it sealed the deal.


 It's interesting to hear him talk about his mistakes in the past and it gives me a warm feeling to realize that he, among other architects, realizes that golf isn't necessarily supposed to be penance.


Thanks for sharing.


K

[Bill Brightly]

Nice thread, Ben. Kalen, thanks for posting those links. DMK and Mike Keiser are clearly two guys who get it: great golf course architecture is exhilarating, not exhausting. Great golf course architecture creates a fun experience, not a stern test that reminds us of our weaknesses...

[Peter Pallotta]

We 'know' a roller coaster is safe, but if we completely believed that, if we were certain of it, half the thrill & fun would be gone as we careened around a banked corner at 60 mph feeling like the car was about to fly off the rails at any second.
We've watched the heroine get tied to the rails by the dastardly villain 100 times, and 100 times out of a 100 the hero has arrived just in the knick of time to rescue her as the freight train roared past -- and yet on the 101st time (if the film is well made) we're still glued to our seats with our hearts thumping and minds racing at the thought that, this time, the cackling villlain's many obstacles might prove too much.
How much less fun & exciting would 'Jaws' have been if the stoic & stalwart Captain hadn't wandered up wide-eyed and stunned and said "I think you're gonna need a bigger boat"?

[Joe_Tucholski]

Both good videos.


After watching the two videos my take away is Kidd wants fun courses and Keiser wants to make money with his courses.  At first I thought these were different objectives but maybe fun courses allow Keiser to make money.





I laughed at the end of Keiser video.
"When I began building golf courses I knew nothing about grass.  If you were to quiz me now we would find that I still know almost nothing about grass.  It is really boring."


That being said I find it hard to believe.  He has to know a lot more about grass than most golfers, right?

[Tom_Doak]

Mike has people who know about grass, so he doesn’t have to know.

[Ally Mcintosh]

We 'know' a roller coaster is safe, but if we completely believed that, if we were certain of it, half the thrill & fun would be gone as we careened around a banked corner at 60 mph feeling like the car was about to fly off the rails at any second.
We've watched the heroine get tied to the rails by the dastardly villain 100 times, and 100 times out of a 100 the hero has arrived just in the knick of time to rescue her as the freight train roared past -- and yet on the 101st time (if the film is well made) we're still glued to our seats with our hearts thumping and minds racing at the thought that, this time, the cackling villlain's many obstacles might prove too much.
How much less fun & exciting would 'Jaws' have been if the stoic & stalwart Captain hadn't wandered up wide-eyed and stunned and said "I think you're gonna need a bigger boat"?

This

[Dave McCollum]

I've walked, but not played Tetherow.  I pulled up a few times and just stared at the green complexes for minutes not quite believing what I was seeing.  Some years later an architect friend called it "Deathrow" which struck me as really funny.  Must have been his resistance to scoring period.  Peter's analogy about roller coasters could be applied to a few of these greens.  Regret not giving it a go back then when I could play a little.