Wow!! There are a lot of double bogies out there.

[Mike_Young]

Let's go baseball for a second:  Greg Maddux, Atlanta Braves..won the CY Young 4 times and could not throw it over 85 miles per hour...he once said his philosophy was that of a guy watching a bus coming at him...he said none of us could determine the speed of an approaching bus and would not know it it were going 50 mph or 80 mph...that's how he tried to pitch..sure there were big fastball pitchers everywhere but he was much more fun to watch...golf had better get back to that philosophy...all we are seeing now is strength and thats not golf...

[Kalen Braley]

Let's go baseball for a second:  Greg Maddux, Atlanta Braves..won the CY Young 4 times and could not throw it over 85 miles per hour...he once said his philosophy was that of a guy watching a bus coming at him...he said none of us could determine the speed of an approaching bus and would not know it it were going 50 mph or 80 mph...that's how he tried to pitch..sure there were big fastball pitchers everywhere but he was much more fun to watch...golf had better get back to that philosophy...all we are seeing now is strength and thats not golf...

Amen Mike,

Couldn't agree more.  I would think the best championships are the ones where you have to beat everyone in the field, not just the ones who are suited for a particular type of long, sloggy, tight, pain inducing setup...

[Mike_Young]

Let's go baseball for a second:  Greg Maddux, Atlanta Braves..won the CY Young 4 times and could not throw it over 85 miles per hour...he once said his philosophy was that of a guy watching a bus coming at him...he said none of us could determine the speed of an approaching bus and would not know it it were going 50 mph or 80 mph...that's how he tried to pitch..sure there were big fastball pitchers everywhere but he was much more fun to watch...golf had better get back to that philosophy...all we are seeing now is strength and thats not golf...

Amen Mike,

Couldn't agree more.  I would think the best championships are the ones where you have to beat everyone in the field, not just the ones who are suited for a particular type of long, sloggy, tight, pain inducing setup...

I'm sure Koepka is a good guy and a great player but this is not the personification golf needs.  Leaves a lot of people out...all we are determining this week is the  BEST,  strongest very good player.  We are not determining the BEST player.

[Ken Moum]

Is it possible we're seeing a tipping point re length & set-up, where instead of a course favouring a few it identifies only the one?

Isn't that what we had in 1954?


And during most of Tiger's reign at the top.


I almost included Jacks prime years, too, but I think the setups then did allow shorter, straighter hitters to win majors.

[Mike_Young]

Is it possible we're seeing a tipping point re length & set-up, where instead of a course favouring a few it identifies only the one?

I almost included Jacks prime years, too, but I think the setups then did allow shorter, straighter hitters to win majors.

Ken,I think the distance between the longest and shortest when JN was around was much less than it is today...

[James Brown]

A 30-something alien from a brilliant & highly evolved race dropped off on planet Earth in early April and discovering (and falling in love with) golf almost immediately, would conclude (I think) that:
Mackenzie was a much better golf architect than Tillinghast 
Augusta is many times more interesting a design than Bethpage, and much more in keeping with the game's essential spirit & ethos, and
Brooks is now for the modern-current game what Tiger was for golf some 20 years ago

Not sure I would agree.  Brooks is much more of the “ball striker” mold, whereas Tiger was always more of a “scorer” in his prime.  I would say Koepka is much closer to a modern day Hogan.  Long and straight and zero distraction. 

[James Brown]

Is it possible we're seeing a tipping point re length & set-up, where instead of a course favouring a few it identifies only the one?

Isn't that what we had in 1954?


And during most of Tiger's reign at the top.


I almost included Jacks prime years, too, but I think the setups then did allow shorter, straighter hitters to win majors.

Exactly!  Hogan and Jack would love this setup.  Jack alway said he loved it when so many ruled themselves out before the tournament started. 


I really hate Brooks Koepka as a personality, but you have to acknowledge his brilliance in performing so well on many different major championship set ups. 


If you can hit it so long and straight you should be rewarded.

[Mike_Young]

Is it possible we're seeing a tipping point re length & set-up, where instead of a course favouring a few it identifies only the one?

Isn't that what we had in 1954?


And during most of Tiger's reign at the top.


I almost included Jacks prime years, too, but I think the setups then did allow shorter, straighter hitters to win majors.

Exactly!  Hogan and Jack would love this setup.  Jack alway said he loved it when so many ruled themselves out before the tournament started. 


I really hate Brooks Koepka as a personality, but you have to acknowledge his brilliance in performing so well on many different major championship set ups. 


If you can hit it so long and straight you should be rewarded.

I like Koepka.  But he just stated on GC . " fairways are overrated"...says it all...I have no problem with how he plays.  My problem is the way the PGA or USGA sets a course to where only his style of play can win...there are other styles of golf out there and I like to see them all...

[Nick Ribeiro]

I'm really surprised to see all the comments regarding making the course playable for everyone so the long hitters don't have an advantage. Is it fair to Brooks and DJ who are where they are on the board due to the work the put in at the gym?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqGLWfQ8cNY
I think the rest of the tour should get to the gym and start working as hard as these guys are and work on hitting the ball just as far. Altering design to try to stop the best from being the best is crazy. It's like making the boxing ring bigger to accommodate speed fighters during Tysons prime because no one could last a round. Or changing the football field to take away from Tom Bradys strengths. Trying to make sure Lebron can't be Lebron. I mean we would never consider such nonsense in any other sport, why take golf there?

[Mike_Young]

I'm really surprised to see all the comments regarding making the course playable for everyone so the long hitters don't have an advantage. Is it fair to Brooks and DJ who are where they are on the board due to the work the put in at the gym?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqGLWfQ8cNY
I think the rest of the tour should get to the gym and start working as hard as these guys are and work on hitting the ball just as far. Altering design to try to stop the best from being the best is crazy. It's like making the boxing ring bigger to accommodate speed fighters during Tysons prime because no one could last a round. Or changing the football field to take away from Tom Bradys strengths. Trying to make sure Lebron can't be Lebron. I mean we would never consider such nonsense in any other sport, why take golf there?

Hmmmm.....come on dude...golf is the only sport that has done such.  A guy can still beat Lebron with 3 pointers because there is the opportunity to  shoot three pointers on any basketball court if you have a shot. 
FERTILIZED rough at 5-6 inches is the equivalent of playing basketball with a 15 pound basketball which would only allow for dunks and slams.  You are confusing the strongest players with the best players.  they may be but you can't determine such when the field is set up for them and them only. 

[Nick Ribeiro]

I'm really surprised to see all the comments regarding making the course playable for everyone so the long hitters don't have an advantage. Is it fair to Brooks and DJ who are where they are on the board due to the work the put in at the gym?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqGLWfQ8cNY
I think the rest of the tour should get to the gym and start working as hard as these guys are and work on hitting the ball just as far. Altering design to try to stop the best from being the best is crazy. It's like making the boxing ring bigger to accommodate speed fighters during Tysons prime because no one could last a round. Or changing the football field to take away from Tom Bradys strengths. Trying to make sure Lebron can't be Lebron. I mean we would never consider such nonsense in any other sport, why take golf there?

Hmmmm.....come on dude...golf is the only sport that has done such.  A guy can still beat Lebron with 3 pointers because there is the opportunity to  shoot three pointers on any basketball court if you have a shot. 
FERTILIZED rough at 5-6 inches is the equivalent of playing basketball with a 15 pound basketball which would only allow for dunks and slams.  You are confusing the strongest players with the best players.  they may be but you can't determine such when the field is set up for them and them only.

The pros understand what's required to be there and to win. Everyone gets to choose their own path in how they prepare to get there. The ones who think the field isn't set up for them are obv doing something wrong. Look at pictures of Brooks when he first turned pro in 2012, looks nothing like he does today. He's being rewarded for hard work and correct preparation. Congrats to him.

[Kalen Braley]

Is Brooks gonna be Norman 2.0?

[Mike_Young]

I'm really surprised to see all the comments regarding making the course playable for everyone so the long hitters don't have an advantage. Is it fair to Brooks and DJ who are where they are on the board due to the work the put in at the gym?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqGLWfQ8cNY
I think the rest of the tour should get to the gym and start working as hard as these guys are and work on hitting the ball just as far. Altering design to try to stop the best from being the best is crazy. It's like making the boxing ring bigger to accommodate speed fighters during Tysons prime because no one could last a round. Or changing the football field to take away from Tom Bradys strengths. Trying to make sure Lebron can't be Lebron. I mean we would never consider such nonsense in any other sport, why take golf there?

Hmmmm.....come on dude...golf is the only sport that has done such.  A guy can still beat Lebron with 3 pointers because there is the opportunity to  shoot three pointers on any basketball court if you have a shot. 
FERTILIZED rough at 5-6 inches is the equivalent of playing basketball with a 15 pound basketball which would only allow for dunks and slams.  You are confusing the strongest players with the best players.  they may be but you can't determine such when the field is set up for them and them only.

The pros understand what's required to be there and to win. Everyone gets to choose their own path in how they prepare to get there. The ones who think the field isn't set up for them are obv doing something wrong. Look at pictures of Brooks when he first turned pro in 2012, looks nothing like he does today. He's being rewarded for hard work and correct preparation. Congrats to him.

Nick, Do you play golf?

[James Brown]

Is it possible we're seeing a tipping point re length & set-up, where instead of a course favouring a few it identifies only the one?

I almost included Jacks prime years, too, but I think the setups then did allow shorter, straighter hitters to win majors.

Ken,I think the distance between the longest and shortest when JN was around was much less than it is today...

PGA Toyr Stats go back to 1980.




In 1980 the longest driver averaged 274 and the shortest 238.


In 2018 the longest was 319 and shortest 278. 


Almost the same differential in absolute yards, but a much smaller percentage variation.

[Tom_Doak]

In 1980 the longest driver averaged 274 and the shortest 238.

In 2018 the longest was 319 and shortest 278. 

Almost the same differential in absolute yards, but a much smaller percentage variation.

These numbers are a self-fulfilling prophecy.  What they demonstrate is that you cannot give up more than forty yards in distance and be able to compete, so, you've got to be able to hit it 280-290 today to even try to compete as a short hitter.  Below that, it doesn't matter how good a ball striker you are.

[Tom_Doak]

I like Koepka.  But he just stated on GC . " fairways are overrated"...says it all...I have no problem with how he plays.  My problem is the way the PGA or USGA sets a course to where only his style of play can win...there are other styles of golf out there and I like to see them all...

Mike:


I agree with you that the problem lies with the setup.  The governing bodies think they are identifying the best player, but their setups disqualify a lot of players, which I believe is purely in the interest of keeping the winning score from sounding too low.


If you want to give a full range of players a chance to win, the setup should not widen the gap between the strong and the weak - it should narrow it, to make the strong have to compete with more contenders.  They should not worry a bit about allowing players to get away with wild shots, and instead give guys a chance to bounce the ball onto the green if they're mired in the rough, as most Open Championship courses do.  [I fear that Portrush will not be one of those; the rough there has been frightful every time I've seen it the past ten years.]


Brooks' comment about fairways being overrated has a lot to do with the fact that fairways today aren't wide enough for any golfer to hit consistently.

[Terry Lavin]

This sort of setup doesn’t so much identify the best player as it does the luckiest or “pluckiest” player. Brooks ain’t nothing if not plucky.


But this setup mentality almost inevitably leads to a mind-numbing viewing experience. The first three rounds were somnolent and the final round was animated mainly by Koepka tempting fate by playing too conservatively.


A rather tepid major, IMHO, even if the course is a great venue and even though the right guy won. The snooze button got worn out.

[Pete_Pittock]

Is Brooks gonna be Norman 2.0?

Had the same thought, glad it did not happen. 12:1 odd for The Open, with his caddy from Portrush. Could be the start of the Slam

[Mike_Young]

I like Koepka.  But he just stated on GC . " fairways are overrated"...says it all...I have no problem with how he plays.  My problem is the way the PGA or USGA sets a course to where only his style of play can win...there are other styles of golf out there and I like to see them all...

Mike:


I agree with you that the problem lies with the setup.  The governing bodies think they are identifying the best player, but their setups disqualify a lot of players, which I believe is purely in the interest of keeping the winning score from sounding too low.

I think it's ALL about that score being low and "discrediting" the course.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Nick, honest question here. What about Bethpage Black makes it "great" in your opinion? IIRC (and I could be wrong), all you talked about was that the course was difficult/tough (paraphrasing, not quoting) and that was the "original design intent."


What are the redeeming qualities? What are the architectural things that make Bethpage Black "great"?