Pebble Beach rates are too low

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Mike Keiser in an interview with Shane Bacon on Clubhouse Podcast said that given the value of land in that area, he thought that Pebble Beach was probably undercharging for the value of the golf course and the land. He also said that he tried to keep Bandon's rate half of Pebble's. I think pebble could probably go to $750 per round and not see much of a drop off. That said I'm not sure BDGR could get near the $400 rate in peak season without a steeper decline in rounds.

[Jim Nugent]

The jammed tee sheet pretty well assures that Pebble could raise rates (and profits) even more.   

[Tom_Doak]

Actually I think it’s the other way around - green fees at Bandon are holding Pebble’s rates down.  They’ve been frozen at $500 for a long time.


Pebble Beach could charge whatever they wanted to, but it amazes me they get such high green fees for Spyglass Hill and Spanish Bay.  Those numbers are all about California real estate prices.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is Mike Keiser being misquoted here or does he want the cost of golf to go up?

[V. Kmetz]

What an era we're in...both in the gross and net personal economy categories... Jesus Christ these numbers... the fact that the tee sheet is full does not speak to  market efficacy, but the insidious choking of wealth distribution/1% disparity... this  is no longer a public course, just a private club without initiation or year-round upkeep....it's as public as a PPV Inuaguration


$500 is nearly 1% of what I make in a year, with no benefits, working all but 4 weeks in a year, sometimes two of the jobs at a time...I will never get to play Pebble; glad I went to a Crosby many moons ago.


And I know he's a golf catalyst and prolly a fair guy...but fuck Mike Keiser and such pronouncements...

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks.
You are and are known to be a much more level headed and clear thinking poster than I am, with many times the years of playing/course experiences.
So I'm glad you said it -- and cut through all the bs and posturing and ego-puffing and back scratching and enlightened self interest that goes on around here, especially when it comes to Mr. K -- instead of me...because your words just might resonate with others while mine won't.
In every single way possible, the K model manifests and celebrates excess, for the sake of excess and what it represents
Yuck.
And before anyone else says it I'll say it myself: yes, I now completely agree: I don't belong here.

[Joe Hancock]

Peter,


Hang on a second, friend. Since when do we have to have the same perspective, be agreeable on every point, have the same economic stature, listen to the same jazz....to still be civil, to be able to learn, and most importantly, be able to teach? Take a guess at how many former posters to this site I stand to learn from in future posts? That’s right, zero. When people bail out on this site for whatever reason, it’s almost always a self-serving action. No one with any amount of intellect thinks the discussion of golf course architecture is better off without them.


Spoken with love and admiration,


Joe

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, bless your kind heart, Joe
But that statement wasn't meant as a pout (and certainly not as a threat) but as a realistic assessment, ie eg there is a lot to be said for, and a lot to be written about, the best steak house in New York -- but a strict vegetarian isn't really going to add very much to the conversation...
With much affection and even more respect
Peter

[Jerry Kluger]

I just wonder what they could do with the land if they closed Pebble.  Would they be allowed to build houses on the land that is on the ocean, perhaps, but maybe not. Surely those folks who have the ocean view are of substantial means and influence and would do everything they could to stop it.  There are also the environmentalists who would have grave reservations about it. The owners of PB must be making enough money to justify their investment.  I doubt that they would have much trouble coming up with a membership were they to try and take it private. Bandon has gotten very expensive with a very limited reduction of fees to locals despite the initial representations and those of us on the east coast can get to the UK and Ireland much easier and quicker and probably save money. 

[Kalen Braley]

I think Pebble may in fact be under priced as suggested.


But given its owned under the Pebble Beach Company umbrella, with its other 3 overpriced courses, as well as the insanely priced hotel properties....I'm sure mgmt is A'OK with the $500 per head fee...

[Jeff Schley]

I think Pebble may in fact be under priced as suggested.


But given its owned under the Pebble Beach Company umbrella, with its other 3 overpriced courses, as well as the insanely priced hotel properties....I'm sure mgmt is A'OK with the $500 per head fee...

I would like to know what % of tee times are part of the advance reservation that includes a 2 night minimum I believe at one of their resorts.  It was never meant to be a daily fee course, but with exorbitantly priced hotel/food/beverage packaged together.  I'd predict the amount of advance reservations are probably 2/3rds or more of their tee times, but that is a guess as during the winter it could be less. Pretty nice cash machine.
At least you don't have to pay the 10 buck toll for 17 mile drive so you are actually paying $490. 

[Steve Kline]

Is Mike Keiser being misquoted here or does he want the cost of golf to go up?

He’s not being misquoted. He said the exact same thing on the No Laying Up podcast released this week.

[JESII]

Which is the first sentence in economics 101...

[Rees Milikin]

Thank goodness there are plenty of places to play that are very cheap.  If you wanna play PB or any high end resort for that matter, save your money and make it happen.  If you think it’s too expensive and overpriced, don’t go and spend your money elsewhere.

[James Brown]

All I know is that I have played Pebble several times by just calling up a couple of days in advance and asking if I could get a tee time without even being a hotel guest.  I think they haven’t raised the rates for at least 10 years. 

[John Kavanaugh]

You can't change the way everyone enjoys a pastime and then make it affordable for only those like yourself.

[Ronald Montesano]

I had a conversation with the opposing coach in a match this week. He was interested in Bandon, and was surprised that I have been out there twice. Transparency: the first time I went, was with my wife for my 40th bday. She imagined I wanted to go to Pebble and play, and had saved money to surprise me. I said that there was no way I would pay $30 per hole to play a golf course, and that I preferred to go to a newish place in Oregon. We stayed off-site and I drove in to play each of the then-three open courses. When I went on sabbatical and drove the country, visiting schools along the way, a buddy met me at Bandon to celebrate my 50th. We stayed on-site and played the now-five courses on site.


Back to this week: I told my fellow coach to look at all the prices for the various seasons of Bandon, and to determine which he could afford without looking back. I said that if you worry about the money, then the golf isn't that important. I also told him to consider if 4-5 days of links golf appealed to him. I told him that he could have a great caddie for the entirety of his stay, eat wonderful foods, sleep in super-comfy beds, and have a wretched time if he and his friends could not resolve the money issue.


For those outside the top 1%, there are always levels of expense beyond our comfort zone. Since no one gets out alive, we ask the question, how far outside the comfort zone am I willing to risk? If my home golf course is a $25 per round municipal course, paying $285 plus $145 for 2 rounds at Bandon per day, plus travel and lodging and vittles, is beyond the ken. A trip there in the shoulder season, when rates are nearly halved, might be within the realm for a once in a lifetime splurge ( [size=78%]https://www.bandondunesgolf.com/2019-green-fees[/size][/size][size=78%])[/size]


And that's where it ends. It does bother me when those on this DB, of inordinate wealth, no matter how it was acquired, need to publicly defend it. Nothing should be construed as a personal attack on you. I understand the passion behind the FMK written earlier, if indeed those quoted words lead us away from affordable golf. I hope that BD, CL and SV are always somehow affordable.

[John Kavanaugh]

I had a conversation with the opposing coach in a match this week. He was interested in Bandon, and was surprised that I have been out there twice. Transparency: the first time I went, was with my wife for my 40th bday. She imagined I wanted to go to Pebble and play, and had saved money to surprise me. I said that there was no way I would pay $30 per hole to play a golf course, and that I preferred to go to a newish place in Oregon. We stayed off-site and I drove in to play each of the then-three open courses. When I went on sabbatical and drove the country, visiting schools along the way, a buddy met me at Bandon to celebrate my 50th. We stayed on-site and played the now-five courses on site.


Back to this week: I told my fellow coach to look at all the prices for the various seasons of Bandon, and to determine which he could afford without looking back. I said that if you worry about the money, then the golf isn't that important. I also told him to consider if 4-5 days of links golf appealed to him. I told him that he could have a great caddie for the entirety of his stay, eat wonderful foods, sleep in super-comfy beds, and have a wretched time if he and his friends could not resolve the money issue.


For those outside the top 1%, there are always levels of expense beyond our comfort zone. Since no one gets out alive, we ask the question, how far outside the comfort zone am I willing to risk? If my home golf course is a $25 per round municipal course, paying $285 plus $145 for 2 rounds at Bandon per day, plus travel and lodging and vittles, is beyond the ken. A trip there in the shoulder season, when rates are nearly halved, might be within the realm for a once in a lifetime splurge ( [size=78%]https://www.bandondunesgolf.com/2019-green-fees[/size][size=78%])[/size]


And that's where it ends. It does bother me when those on this DB, of inordinate wealth, no matter how it was acquired, need to publicly defend it. Nothing should be construed as a personal attack on you. I understand the passion behind the FMK written earlier, if indeed those quoted words lead us away from affordable golf. I hope that BD, CL and SV are always somehow affordable.

Why would you tell a guy on a budget to take a caddie?

[Sean_A]

Golf is a business as much as it is a sport or hobby.... seemingly at private clubs as well where the business side of things should be neglible. I am never going to play Pebble because it costs too much (and it is just a golf course), but that is true of a great many things in life. I doubt I will ever make it to Bandon and as time rolls on prices continue to rise.  In a way, the five course set up makes me going even less likely.

It's a big world with plenty of interesting and excellent courses to be had at lower budgets. Don't worry about what you can't have and focus on what you do have. Life is good.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Golf is a business as much as it is a sport or hobby....

Ciao

Sean,


on the one side you are correct but on the otherside Wrong. Golf is primarily a social occasion for most and a wellbeing (ugh, hate that phrase but it fits) as well. The problem much of golf is facing at the moment is its over commercialisation of the past 30 years.

[Niall C]

As a one time and done at Pebble Beach, and also someone who is most definitely not in the top 1%, I justified the expenditure (as did my 3 travelling companions) because it was a bucket list type of trip. The $500 also got lost in the overall cost of a trip that encompassed a number of other courses. Bear in mind that probably most of the golfers playing PB are coming from far and wide and will likely look at it the same way.

Bear in mind also that if you are booking a trip with PB at the centre of it, you are likely to want/require to pre-book well in advance, and to do that you need to stay (for 2 nights) in the PB accommodation which while very nice is eye-wateringly expensive.  And while you are there for two nights you may as well play one of their second courses which while nice are hugely over-priced, however again it gets lost in the overall cost.

Basically, I suspect for a significant proportion of PB golfers, the PB green fee is just a fraction of what they give the consortium that owns PB. How does that compare to Bandon ?

Niall   

[Sean_A]

Golf is a business as much as it is a sport or hobby....

Ciao

Sean,
on the one side you are correct but on the otherside Wrong. Golf is primarily a social occasion for most and a wellbeing (ugh, hate that phrase but it fits) as well. The problem much of golf is facing at the moment is its over commercialisation of the past 30 years.

Jon

I don't have an issue with the commercialization/monetizing of golf.  If not for that I wouldn't have played anywhere near the number of big guns I have.  I welcome the different pricing levels of courses which suit different wallets and interests.  I always have the choice to say no thanks.  Live and let live.  Objectively there is no such thing as golf which is too expensive, the same cannot be said of too cheap.

Ciao

[Jim_Kennedy]

All I want to know is this: when you plunk down five Franklins (plus the expense of travel/lodging) to play Pebble or whatever it is to play Bandon, etc., do you still use a Kirkland ball?   

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Is Mike Keiser being misquoted here or does he want the cost of golf to go up?

He’s not being misquoted. He said the exact same thing on the No Laying Up podcast released this week.

I might have originally cited the wrong source, I think it was the NLU podcast.

[JESII]

I've never thought Mike Keiser was interested in driving down the cost of golf...because I've never seen any evidence of that...but isn't this statement simply a reference to basic economics?