[Thomas Dai]

Had a golf mates conversation recently about the younger generation of men who we see playing pro-golf on TV. The main thread was that they aren’t just golfers any more, they are now athletes who have chosen to play golf instead of some other athletic or sporting activity.
Thoughts?
Atb

[Jeff Schley]

Had a golf mates conversation recently about the younger generation of men who we see playing pro-golf on TV. The main thread was that they aren’t just golfers any more, they are now athletes who have chosen to play golf instead of some other athletic or sporting activity.
Thoughts?
Atb

I respectfully disagree. I played college athletics and went on to coach college football.  While the players maybe better athletes today, the sports that golfers could have played as an alternative to golf are pretty limited. They aren't muscular guys, if anything they are lanky and somewhat toned.  What golf doesn't measure if movement.  In almost any other sport you have to run, move with agility and body control. Who the heck knows if these golfers have this ability.  Forget other professional sports, let's just look to see if they could even play major college sports in an alternative sport. You see it in perhaps tennis, soccer or maybe baseball.
Do they look more athletic and work out much more than in the past?  Yes.  However we can say this about all pro sports without any exception. Could they play other sports at a D1 college level?  I think there will be very few.

[Kalen Braley]

Golf is certainly tough to compare with most other sports.

Closest I can think of is Baseball where eye/hand coordination and swinging the bat is somewhat similar and very much necessary for success.

But Jeff is right, there are very very few athletes who can excel at even the top level of college sports in multiple sports, much less in the pros.  At the high school level and below, sure....

[Wayne_Kozun]

Just because they are more athletic, does that mean they are better golfers.


As we all have seen some fantastic athletes such at golf - Charles Barkley being a great example.


Would Tony Romo and Steph Curry be great golfers if they did that as a career?  Maybe, but maybe not better than DJ, Tiger, Brooks, etc.

[Kalen Braley]

I would put today's best up against anyone from yesteryear not named Jack or Arnie.

They would eviscerate them on a regular basis...

Excuse me now while I go take cover!! 

[David_Tepper]

Nicklaus was star high school athlete in several sports. So was Tom Watson. Hale Irwin played big-time college football. Sam Snead was reputed to be a fine athlete as well.

No doubt there are many bigger/taller guys playing golf playing golf than there used to be. Guys over 6'1" or 6'2" used to be fairly rare in golf. Now they are commonplace.


There are also bigger/taller guys playing just about every sport. There are dozens and dozens or guys 6'3" or more playing tennis these days. 30-40 years ago Stan Smith was considered a giant. In today's game he would be almost of average height.

[Jeff Evagues]

Johnson and Koepka could probably play another sport but I don't see Thomas or Speith doing so.

[Ken Moum]

Guys over 6'1" or 6'2" used to be fairly rare in golf. Now they are commonplace.

In addition to what you mentioned, I think one reason that tall golfers have succeeded more than in the past can be attributed to equipment.


Today's clubs are much longer than the ones in George Archer's day.  A man over six feet doesn't have to deal with the incredibly heavy clubs of yesteryear.


Drivers, for instance were once 16 ounces and 43 inches long.  Now they're closer to 12 ounces @ 45 inches-plus

[jeffwarne]

Had a golf mates conversation recently about the younger generation of men who we see playing pro-golf on TV. The main thread was that they aren’t just golfers any more, they are now athletes who have chosen to play golf instead of some other athletic or sporting activity.
Thoughts?
Atb

I respectfully disagree. I played college athletics and went on to coach college football.  While the players maybe better athletes today, the sports that golfers could have played as an alternative to golf are pretty limited. They aren't muscular guys, if anything they are lanky and somewhat toned.  What golf doesn't measure if movement.  In almost any other sport you have to run, move with agility and body control. Who the heck knows if these golfers have this ability.  Forget other professional sports, let's just look to see if they could even play major college sports in an alternative sport. You see it in perhaps tennis, soccer or maybe baseball.
Do they look more athletic and work out much more than in the past?  Yes.  However we can say this about all pro sports without any exception. Could they play other sports at a D1 college level?  I think there will be very few.

Don't mistake mandatory size(such as required for D-1 football) with athleticism.
Jordan Spieth may not be a offensive guard but I'm pretty sure he could've been an outfielder or shortstop in college-or a gymnast, soccer player,tennis player or one of other dozens of college sports.
Golfers don't have body control?
320 yard drives, followed by a finesse chip, flop shot, putting touch, or controlled curving shot.
Most PGA Tour players played other sports in high school, and I wouldn't challenge many to a game of ping-pong or another hand eye sport.


Put another way, I'd venture a guess that a reasonable # of PGA Tour players could learn the skills in 6 months to sub in at cornerback in a college game without the entire defense crumbling, but there's no chance a 300 pound tackle could be taught in 6 months to successfully play one hole in a D-1 college golf event.


What's next? Federer's not a good athlete because he's not big enough to be a lineman?

[Jeff Schley]

Had a golf mates conversation recently about the younger generation of men who we see playing pro-golf on TV. The main thread was that they aren’t just golfers any more, they are now athletes who have chosen to play golf instead of some other athletic or sporting activity.
Thoughts?
Atb

I respectfully disagree. I played college athletics and went on to coach college football.  While the players maybe better athletes today, the sports that golfers could have played as an alternative to golf are pretty limited. They aren't muscular guys, if anything they are lanky and somewhat toned.  What golf doesn't measure if movement.  In almost any other sport you have to run, move with agility and body control. Who the heck knows if these golfers have this ability.  Forget other professional sports, let's just look to see if they could even play major college sports in an alternative sport. You see it in perhaps tennis, soccer or maybe baseball.
Do they look more athletic and work out much more than in the past?  Yes.  However we can say this about all pro sports without any exception. Could they play other sports at a D1 college level?  I think there will be very few.

Don't mistake mandatory size(such as required for D-1 football) with athleticism.
Jordan Spieth may not be a offensive guard but I'm pretty sure he could've been an outfielder or shortstop in college-or a gymnast, soccer player,tennis player or one of other dozens of college sports.
Golfers don't have body control?
320 yard drives, followed by a finesse chip, flop shot, putting touch, or controlled curving shot.
Most PGA Tour players played other sports in high school, and I wouldn't challenge many to a game of ping-pong or another hand eye sport.


Put another way, I'd venture a guess that a reasonable # of PGA Tour players could learn the skills in 6 months to sub in at cornerback in a college game without the entire defense crumbling, but there's no chance a 300 pound tackle could be taught in 6 months to successfully play one hole in a D-1 college golf event.


What's next? Federer's not a good athlete because he's not big enough to be a lineman?

Jeff I just disagree with you that golfers would "reasonably" learn the skills in 6 months to be a college cornerback.  You are VASTLY overrating their talent for skills with which there is no evidence of transference of golf to CB skills. Cornerbacks have to be the most agile and athletic on the football field, not to mention to play football (even as a CB)you have to be tough and actually tackle people and be explosive. Again no possible way professionally, major college no way, perhaps HS.  But is that the bar we are talking about?  Be able to be a good HS player at another sport?

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.  Golfers don't run, they don't move their bodies in any direction, they are stationary. I would say Roger Federer is a great athlete with much better proven athletic ability to have a chance to play another dynamic sport than golfers.
To suggest golfers could do "one of a dozen other sports" is simply wishful thinking and discounting the talents those athletes have. Golfers have hand eye coordination and your example of ping pong is a good one, but is that a professional sport, much less a college one? What else croquet, horseshoes, lawn jarts? Because golf doesn't require dynamic movement the best players don't have predicable ability to almost all other sports.  The fact some athletes in hockey, baseball, football are good golfers speaks to their ability to do multiple sports, but that is no evidence that since Tony Romo is a good golfer that DJ can play QB for the Cowboys. 

Could there be an instance where Brooks Koepka could play fullback or maybe safety in football?  Perhaps, but at a major college I would need to see him doing combine type skills first.  Then that is only athletic ability, then you have to see if the guy is a pu**y and will hit someone and be tough and preserve through injuries and then buy into the team concept and play unselfishly their responsibilities within the scheme.  There are just so many factors the chances are extremely low in that instance.
Golf is hard for what it demands as we see great athletes that are absolutely terrible at it. It isn't hard to find great athletes in other sports who are terrible golfers.  It is a unique skill set for sure, but those skills don't translate to athletic prowess in other sports sorry but I just don't agree for reasons stated above.

[Steve Kline]

I played college golf at Vanderbilt (before Snedeker arrived and they became a top 20 program).


I played soccer, baseball, basketball and tennis growing up. But I gave up all other sports at age 12 to focus on golf. I guarantee if I focused on soccer, baseball, or tennis as much as I did golf that I could have played D1 soccer, baseball, or tennis (I was too short for basketball).


It's not a question of doing it tomorrow or learning the skills in six months. I played D1 golf in the SEC because I spent six years playing golf sun up to sun down every day that the weather permitted. That's how you acquire the skills (the whole 10,000 hours thing). It takes passion and focus to develop the skills.


There are very, very few Bo Jackson's who could roll out of bed and play multiple sports at very high level.

[Thomas Dai]

Steve has summarised nicely the basis of the conversation I mentioned in my OP.
Young folks with athletic/sports talent, trying numerous sports and finding the one they prefer or are best at and then concentrating on that for years and years but first and foremost they are talented at sports and athletic people. And that sports/athlete culture has spread into golf.
I’m not in a position to comment on significantly US centred sports but it seems more and more of the guys we see on TV these days, the younger ones, the 20-30’s or thereabouts look like rugby players, although maybe more Rugby League than Union, and swimmers.
Where have all the thin, sinewy, wiry golfers gone? Or were there ever any?
Atb

[Mike Sweeney]

Where have all the thin, sinewy, wiry golfers gone? Or were there ever any?
Atb

I think they simply followed Tiger to the gym:



Fo the Bo Jackson fans out there, Bo Knows golf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgt7Hu3cL5w

[Jim Nugent]

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.

Jeff, I agree with just about everything you wrote, except including soccer.  At the pro level, the running/sprinting/agility demands -- the very things you brought up -- alone limit soccer to elite athletes.  Also, the kind of coordination required to build a great golf swing have nothing to do with gaining mastery of a soccer ball.   

[jeffwarne]

Had a golf mates conversation recently about the younger generation of men who we see playing pro-golf on TV. The main thread was that they aren’t just golfers any more, they are now athletes who have chosen to play golf instead of some other athletic or sporting activity.
Thoughts?
Atb

I respectfully disagree. I played college athletics and went on to coach college football.  While the players maybe better athletes today, the sports that golfers could have played as an alternative to golf are pretty limited. They aren't muscular guys, if anything they are lanky and somewhat toned.  What golf doesn't measure if movement.  In almost any other sport you have to run, move with agility and body control. Who the heck knows if these golfers have this ability.  Forget other professional sports, let's just look to see if they could even play major college sports in an alternative sport. You see it in perhaps tennis, soccer or maybe baseball.
Do they look more athletic and work out much more than in the past?  Yes.  However we can say this about all pro sports without any exception. Could they play other sports at a D1 college level?  I think there will be very few.

Don't mistake mandatory size(such as required for D-1 football) with athleticism.
Jordan Spieth may not be a offensive guard but I'm pretty sure he could've been an outfielder or shortstop in college-or a gymnast, soccer player,tennis player or one of other dozens of college sports.
Golfers don't have body control?
320 yard drives, followed by a finesse chip, flop shot, putting touch, or controlled curving shot.
Most PGA Tour players played other sports in high school, and I wouldn't challenge many to a game of ping-pong or another hand eye sport.


Put another way, I'd venture a guess that a reasonable # of PGA Tour players could learn the skills in 6 months to sub in at cornerback in a college game without the entire defense crumbling, but there's no chance a 300 pound tackle could be taught in 6 months to successfully play one hole in a D-1 college golf event.


What's next? Federer's not a good athlete because he's not big enough to be a lineman?

Jeff I just disagree with you that golfers would "reasonably" learn the skills in 6 months to be a college cornerback.  You are VASTLY overrating their talent for skills with which there is no evidence of transference of golf to CB skills. Cornerbacks have to be the most agile and athletic on the football field, not to mention to play football (even as a CB)you have to be tough and actually tackle people and be explosive. Again no possible way professionally, major college no way, perhaps HS.  But is that the bar we are talking about?  Be able to be a good HS player at another sport?

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.  Golfers don't run, they don't move their bodies in any direction, they are stationary. I would say Roger Federer is a great athlete with much better proven athletic ability to have a chance to play another dynamic sport than golfers.
To suggest golfers could do "one of a dozen other sports" is simply wishful thinking and discounting the talents those athletes have. Golfers have hand eye coordination and your example of ping pong is a good one, but is that a professional sport, much less a college one? What else croquet, horseshoes, lawn jarts? Because golf doesn't require dynamic movement the best players don't have predicable ability to almost all other sports.  The fact some athletes in hockey, baseball, football are good golfers speaks to their ability to do multiple sports, but that is no evidence that since Tony Romo is a good golfer that DJ can play QB for the Cowboys. 

Could there be an instance where Brooks Koepka could play fullback or maybe safety in football?  Perhaps, but at a major college I would need to see him doing combine type skills first.  Then that is only athletic ability, then you have to see if the guy is a pu**y and will hit someone and be tough and preserve through injuries and then buy into the team concept and play unselfishly their responsibilities within the scheme.  There are just so many factors the chances are extremely low in that instance.
Golf is hard for what it demands as we see great athletes that are absolutely terrible at it. It isn't hard to find great athletes in other sports who are terrible golfers.  It is a unique skill set for sure, but those skills don't translate to athletic prowess in other sports sorry but I just don't agree for reasons stated above.

Jeff,
because you've never seen a PGA Tour player run , or tackle, you're assuming they can't.
I'm not saying their skills transfer, I'm saying they may have more than one skill set you're unaware of.
I'm sure if I was allowed to hold a combine of the top 300 PGA Tour players around, I could find 10 that in 6 months  could be trained to play college cornerback, Not an SEC corner, but an average D-1 program and maybe not even a starter.
Chances are I'd find 30-40 who already played well in High School, or could've but gave it up to avoid injury.
That said, you can't teach speed or quickness but who's to say they don't already have that.


If you gave me 300 NFL players I seriously doubt  I could find 10 who could play golf in a D-1 college, and 6 months would do very little good., certainly not in the size disqualifying positions which eliminate PGA Tour players ) Lineman,Linebackers etc.


don't forget there are 74000 college football players-those aren't the worst odds I ever heard of


We may be saying the same thing but in my opinion many football players are (usually)simply born and refine those skills, golfers are also born but often are made be sheer skill development.


Using myself as an example I played golf or practiced nearly every day from age 11.
In basketball I only went to varsity practice and games(never played pickup,travel or summer ball and led our team in scoring (we played against some future NBA and college talent)
In football, at the request of a new coach, I came out my senior year, didn't go to spring or summer practice and ended up being a two way starter in a program that had few that did.


I know that's simply high school but you'd never have seen a football player new to golf EVER play in a match for our high school team.Ironically HS teammate Scott Parel, who finished third on The PGA Tour Champions money list last year was an incredible athlete who at 5'5 was a great HS slot back and basketball player-but he struggled to make our golf team until he was a junior/senior.Scott's size might eliminate him from D-1 consideration but when a ball was thrown into traffic he always emerged with the ball-and with his grit and hands I can see him playing at a smaller D-1 program (then)
 Funny thing was, I remember playing some of the teams in our region tournament(good basketball and football programs but no socioeconomic opportunities in golf) We would be teaching ,coaching and helping out our opponents all the way around the course(trying to bring them in under 200)-for many it was their second or third time in their lives playing golf and they just wanted a day off from school.

[jeffwarne]

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.

Jeff, I agree with just about everything you wrote, except including soccer.  At the pro level, the running/sprinting/agility demands -- the very things you brought up -- alone limit soccer to elite athletes.  Also, the kind of coordination required to build a great golf swing have nothing to do with gaining mastery of a soccer ball.   

Jim,
I worked with the Venezuela World Cup Golf team back in the 90's.
All former soccer players-they had amazing short games and hands.
They used to do club/ball bouncing tricks that were simply amazing-tricks they had borrowed from soccer.
I think their soccer skills translated very well to golf.
Also, soccer stamina can be trained.
Speed no...but stamina is just a question of training and perseverance.


Let's put it this way-I've had way more success teaching soccer players to play golf-than gymnasts or swimmers. elite athletes -who didn't have ball skills.

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff this is a healthy discussion, but division 1 college football has 130 schools and 85 scholarships each.  That is 11,050 scholarship players.  There about 1,000,000 HS football players.  You do the math.
What is the actual discussion now I guess would be helpful.  Are we asking could a present PGA golfer have been a scholarship football player if they had concentrated on that instead of golf as a youth/hs athlete?  If we are, I would say the answer would be very, very few and they were right to focus on golf. I don't count kickers/punters btw. To be a scholarship athlete at the D1 level is extremely tough in any sport and to think that golfers could simply have been a scholarship athlete in another sport had they just started sooner would be a very rare exception.
There are other sports that transfer their skills much easier and we see those examples much more often.  A football player who is in track and field, a guard in basketball who is a receiver in football.
Is there ANY evidence out there where a pro golfer player college athletics in another sport?  If so let's put it out there, I'm open if there is evidence.  There could be a couple, but isn't that the definition of a unicorn type rare example?  Thomas was asking his question as if to ask is this accepted that if a pro golfer wanted to play another sport they could.  I'm sorry that is just not an opinion I can agree with.

[Jeff Schley]

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.

Jeff, I agree with just about everything you wrote, except including soccer.  At the pro level, the running/sprinting/agility demands -- the very things you brought up -- alone limit soccer to elite athletes.  Also, the kind of coordination required to build a great golf swing have nothing to do with gaining mastery of a soccer ball.   

Fair enough Jim I would agree with you, perhaps I was thinking of the goalie who would still have to be extremely quick and have great hands.

[corey miller]

Funny that we speak of Jack, and Arnie and Hale Irwin and we concede they were great athletes but we have trouble extrapolating for present tour guys in the age of specialization?


It used to be a person was a "good/superior athlete" by demonstrated performance in various athletic endeavors.  Now it seems they are deemed a good athlete simply by being/appearing "athletic" which in our time seems to be a measure of quickness and jumping with no regard to many other skills. 


Very skeptical of present competitors/athletes (who by and large have specialized in one sport) making blanket statements about how if they had specialized in other sports they would have succeeded.  We don't know but perhaps we should honor all that have achieved?






 

[Jay Mickle]

How things have changed in the past 50 years. When I played football at Penn State in the mid 60s the biggest interior lineman was 276lbs  some in the 235 range. Unheard of today.  Genetics, nutrition, conditioning, training, food additives etc have had a major impact on today's athletes.

[jeffwarne]

There are other sports that transfer their skills much easier and we see those examples much more often.  A football player who is in track and field, a guard in basketball who is a receiver in football.

Is there ANY evidence out there where a pro golfer player college athletics in another sport?  If so let's put it out there, I'm open if there is evidence.  There could be a couple, but isn't that the definition of a unicorn type rare example?  Thomas was asking his question as if to ask is this accepted that if a pro golfer wanted to play another sport they could.  I'm sorry that is just not an opinion I can agree with.

Having abilities that transfer to other sports (football to track etc. as you cite) doesn't mean those guys are better athletes.
It just means those activities share some of the same natural skill sets (speed in the track/football example)


Golf is incredibly time consuming-far more time consuming than the other sports which rarely would allow for one to practice 10-12 hours daily like a golfer with determination can.


Hale Irwin played D-1 college football-there have been others, Sergio Garcia played soccer in a professional game in 2010, DJ beat Shane Battier in a 3 point shooting contest (and can dunk), Ernie Els and Matt Kuchar were highly successful tennis players, but I would argue that the time demands of golf cause one to put aside other sports-unlike the quarterback who also pitches or plays outfield, or the wide receiver who also is a sprinter.


I'm just saying the premise of the thread is more true than ever-putting many oversize body positions in football and basketball aside anyway.
there are a LOT of other D-1 sports besides those football and basketball.
The premise of the thread is that they CHOSE golf(and focused exclusively on that) and therefore did not play another sport in college-so no evidence will be provided.
There could be limited evidence of a player being recruited for other sports, but choosing golf due to its potential longevity.


The bottom line is an elite golfer needs 8-12 hours a day of practice and training and and an elite receiver could hone both his sprinting technique and receiving ability in far less time daily.


I will say that though there are more good athletes playing golf now than when I took it up in the 70's.
That said, I think many are confusing store bought gym induced muscles and super tight clothes on today's golfers as athleticism as opposed to simple aesthetic fitness-which an equal amount of nonathletes can attain with a few hours weekly  in the gym.

[archie_struthers]

 


Not sure about this one but rumor has it a guy picked Tiger first for a basketball intramural league at Stanford and oops  it didn"t
work out !

[Lou_Duran]

How things have changed in the past 50 years. When I played football at Penn State in the mid 60s the biggest interior lineman was 276lbs  some in the 235 range. Unheard of today.  Genetics, nutrition, conditioning, training, food additives etc have had a major impact on today's athletes.

Perhaps you forgot to include climate change and Darwinian evolution.


BTW, my son weighed well under 100 lbs. when he was a freshman at a small high school in Texas.  He was a good athlete, a starter on the varsity baseball team, a starter on the JV basketball team, and one or two man on the golf team.  In need of bodies, his football coach called me to get him on the football team.  Though most schools in his conference were small, there were kids on the line two or three times heavier and considerably taller.  I haven't tracked changes in size and weight of the population in the US, but I bet that we can attribute some of the changes in distance to things other than club and ball technology.


I do think that more athletes are choosing to specialize in golf.  At the junior levels, the competition has elevated considerably.  Holding all other things equal, I don't see how having innate athletic skills can't translate to better golf performance. 

[Lou_Duran]

Not sure about this one but rumor has it a guy picked Tiger first for a basketball intramural league at Stanford and oops  it didn"t
work out !

What are you suggesting Archie?


I used to ref intramural basketball at Ohio State and the games I dreaded most involved football players.  I remember one with Archie Griffin and Jack Tatum on one team and it was a melee.  I could have fouled both of them out in the first half, but I probably wouldn't be here today.  In today's tort environment, no insurance company would risk the liability alone.

[Jim Nugent]

We aren't asking if golfers are good athletes, we are talking what sports could they maybe potentially do other than golf. I mentioned tennis, soccer, maybe baseball already myself.

Jeff, I agree with just about everything you wrote, except including soccer.  At the pro level, the running/sprinting/agility demands -- the very things you brought up -- alone limit soccer to elite athletes.  Also, the kind of coordination required to build a great golf swing have nothing to do with gaining mastery of a soccer ball.   

Jim,
I worked with the Venezuela World Cup Golf team back in the 90's.
All former soccer players-they had amazing short games and hands.
They used to do club/ball bouncing tricks that were simply amazing-tricks they had borrowed from soccer.
I think their soccer skills translated very well to golf.
Also, soccer stamina can be trained.
Speed no...but stamina is just a question of training and perseverance.


Let's put it this way-I've had way more success teaching soccer players to play golf-than gymnasts or swimmers. elite athletes -who didn't have ball skills.

Jeff, everyone in South America grows up playing soccer (football), where juggling is almost a national pasttime.  Like you say, it's natural for those guys to juggle a golf ball.  I did the same thing when I was young.   

Decades ago I played college soccer on a team that was top 10 or so in the country.  I'm also pretty sure I could have played high-level college golf or more, had I worked at it.  The sports seem to me very different from one another.  A key asset golfers need is eye/hand coordination.  In soccer that means little to nothing: you use everything except your hands. Hard for me to think of any physical skills the two sports have in common. 

I agree with you, soccer to golf probably works better.  And that's because soccer requires a lot more athletically.  But then the question in this thread goes the opposite way: how well top golfers might do at other sports.  The athleticism most other sports demand puts a big damper on that. 

btw, maybe the biggest asset pro golfers have, that could let them go far in some other sports, is mental.  They've shown they have the drive, toughness and ambition to work so hard they succeed against nearly-impossible odds.  If they could carry that over to other sports, they'd have a huge leg up. 




 

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