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A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« on: May 04, 2019, 03:36:13 PM »
I just read a panel discussion of anonymous persons identified only by achievements concerning the USGA and US Open setups in recent years, as well as speculation about what might happen at Pebble.
I must say, it is chapter and verse for what was written here last year after yet another fiasco.  I know that there will be those who consider this to more whining by spoiled brat pros, but at least to me, it didn't come across that way at all.  And the consensus about the USGA is, AT BEST, that they don't know what they don't know, and aren't looking for feedback.  I'll let you read for yourselves what the worst opinions about the USGA are, and those happen to be the ones with which I agree.  Which is too bad...

Interesting stuff.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jerry Kluger

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 04:20:25 PM »
I question whether any pro would say the course is better when it is set up for a US Open versus when it is set up for the AT&T.

Peter Pallotta

Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 05:23:50 PM »
What I don't understand and never have is this:
Given that every USGA official and tournament 'set up' team- member loves golf at the very least as much as I do; has experienced countless more quality/historic courses than I have; has played the game for
many more years and thus plays it much better than I can; has access to and contact with a hundred times the number of industry professionals as I do; knows the history of the game better, and has no doubt read more great books and articles about golf and gca, than I ever can or will; and spends every working day of his/her life in golf & course & tournament related discussions with their colleagues and counterparts both at home and from around the world, while for me the subject is only my 3rd most important and very part-time hobby ---
With all of this, how is it (how can it possibly be) that someone like me can see & read about & understand the ongoing issues and the USGA's misguided approaches to golf & gca & set-up while someone like them can't?
All I can think of is this: that they do in fact know more than me in every way, and have simply (and long ago and permanently) concluded that they're right and I'm wrong.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 05:35:14 PM by Peter Pallotta »

mike_beene

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2019, 05:35:39 PM »
Maybe this is just me at age 59. I remember when the U.S. Open was just rough around every green and narrow fairways. In the last 20 years we have had the return of Pinehurst and return of the chip shot. We get more firm and fast.We get different places like Chambers and we get good tournaments. They even got to Merion. Nobody is perfect but the USGA has much improved the set ups from what I remember. Just my opinion.

Anthony Butler

  • Total Karma: 0
When Smart people do Dumb things.
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 06:47:12 PM »
What I don't understand and never have is this:
Given that every USGA official and tournament 'set up' team- member loves golf at the very least as much as I do; has experienced countless more quality/historic courses than I have; has played the game for
many more years and thus plays it much better than I can; has access to and contact with a hundred times the number of industry professionals as I do; knows the history of the game better, and has no doubt read more great books and articles about golf and gca, than I ever can or will; and spends every working day of his/her life in golf & course & tournament related discussions with their colleagues and counterparts both at home and from around the world, while for me the subject is only my 3rd most important and very part-time hobby ---
With all of this, how is it (how can it possibly be) that someone like me can see & read about & understand the ongoing issues and the USGA's misguided approaches to golf & gca & set-up while someone like them can't?
All I can think of is this: that they do in fact know more than me in every way, and have simply (and long ago and permanently) concluded that they're right and I'm wrong.


While I think you might be overstating the expertise differential between yourself and a USGA staffer, I get your point. To find a similar situation. you need look no further than our Federal Government which is packed with experts on every part of civic life and yet what it provides back in terms of value and services for all the money we contribute could be described as uneven at best.


In my interactions with the USGA, their myopic views on how competitions should conducted and indeed how they should configure their organization to best serve the needs of the golfers who pay their dues have radiated out to many of the vendors who provide services to the USGA.


About 4 years ago, I was asked to contribute a list of ideas on how to use digital capabilities to run their competitions more efficiently. At least half of them were red-lined before they even made to the responsible party at the USGA.

To the best of my recollection, none of them were in the least bit controversial or hard to execute. They just weren't politically 'viable'.
Next!

Peter Pallotta

Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 07:02:25 PM »
Anthony -
and that's another thing I don't understand: 
Sure, in a government setting a staff recommendation that the minimum wage be raised by $3 might not get past the Deputy Secretary, if he/she deems that for the current administration the idea is not politically viable.
But what can possibly be the equivalent situation with the USGA? To use your example, how & why (ie in what context or organizational culture) can purely functional-operational proposals for digital services be deemed not politically viable?


Jeff Schley

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 12:25:58 AM »
Anyone have a link?  I can't find it. Thanks.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 07:59:58 AM »
Anyone have a link?  I can't find it. Thanks.
Jeff,I don't know when the digital issue goes up; I read it in the June print edition, which just arrived in yesterday's mail.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2019, 08:51:40 AM »
What I don't understand and never have is this:
Given that every USGA official and tournament 'set up' team- member loves golf at the very least as much as I do; has experienced countless more quality/historic courses than I have; has played the game for
many more years and thus plays it much better than I can; has access to and contact with a hundred times the number of industry professionals as I do; knows the history of the game better, and has no doubt read more great books and articles about golf and gca, than I ever can or will; and spends every working day of his/her life in golf & course & tournament related discussions with their colleagues and counterparts both at home and from around the world, while for me the subject is only my 3rd most important and very part-time hobby ---
With all of this, how is it (how can it possibly be) that someone like me can see & read about & understand the ongoing issues and the USGA's misguided approaches to golf & gca & set-up while someone like them can't?
All I can think of is this: that they do in fact know more than me in every way, and have simply (and long ago and permanently) concluded that they're right and I'm wrong.
Peter,
Here are several quotes from the article that speak to your post, I think.

1. "They're amateurs who think they know it all--a dangerous combination."
2. "The USGA is an organization built on egos.  It's full of successful people who are not used to being told what to do.  And they're very rich, typically.  They don't listen when it comes to golf."
3. "I don't understand why we can't have a US Open where the greens actually have living grass on them.  Why do they turn up at venues insisting they know how to take care of a course when they don't?  Last year at Shinnecock, they had a meeting early in the week with the top superintendents from other Open venues.  The USGA was told the course needed water.  They just don't listen to people who know what they are doing."
4. "I saw 11 guys out on the greens at Shinnecock last year selecting pin positions.  None of them were from the tours, guys who do that every week."
5. "It takes a special sort of arrogance."

It is also pointed out in the discussion that it is harder when you only go to a particular course every 10-15 years, simply because you haven't seen it in all weather conditions.  But that would seem to make it MORE clear that you need input from the supers about what might happen, and that doesn't seem to be the ethic at all.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

jeffwarne

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2019, 09:07:36 AM »

Peter,
Here are several quotes from the article that speak to your post, I think.

1. "They're amateurs who think they know it all--a dangerous combination."
2. "The USGA is an organization built on egos.  It's full of successful people who are not used to being told what to do.  And they're very rich, typically.  They don't listen when it comes to golf."
3. "I don't understand why we can't have a US Open where the greens actually have living grass on them.  Why do they turn up at venues insisting they know how to take care of a course when they don't?  Last year at Shinnecock, they had a meeting early in the week with the top superintendents from other Open venues.  The USGA was told the course needed water.  They just don't listen to people who know what they are doing."
4. "I saw 11 guys out on the greens at Shinnecock last year selecting pin positions.  None of them were from the tours, guys who do that every week."
5. "It takes a special sort of arrogance."

It is also pointed out in the discussion that it is harder when you only go to a particular course every 10-15 years, simply because you haven't seen it in all weather conditions.  But that would seem to make it MORE clear that you need input from the supers about what might happen, and that doesn't seem to be the ethic at all.


This...
After what happened in 2004 at Shinny-to even go near that chance again in 2018 was simply arrogance and ignorance-all rolled into one volatile cocktail. The weather was perfect all week, and the rain actually bailed them out on Friday before descending back to stupidville on Saturday.
Followed by another desperate oversaturated overreaction on Sunday.



While I agree with Mike Beene on several of his points, the USGA modifying its setup by simply riding a trend popularized by leading modern architects, this board and other Major Tournament setup Committees doesn't exempt you from criticism for your recent nearly annual blunders.
The real mistake was considering Erin Hills a mistake(and therefore overreacting at Shinnecock), when an abnormally mild wind pattern at EH made the course gettable(so what? the best Major player in golf was identified)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Peter Pallotta

Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2019, 09:51:47 AM »
AG -
I read those comments and I don't want to believe them. I don't like having my most cynical & grumbling opinions confirmed -- ie, in this case, that money & ego & status once again rule the day. I'd much rather like to think (and be comforted by a romantic view) that my differences with the USGA are rooted in honestly-held principles and good-faith value systems, ie that officials there truly believe that USGA championships are and should be unique tests of golf, that the 'set-ups' actually do highlight the architecture and identify the best golfer of all, and that those set-ups are informed by the most expert opinion available (whether from inside the USGA or not) -- sought out by those officials in the name of professionalism and due diligence and a duty to the game and its great & iconic courses.
As I say, I find it unpleasant to think this is not the case.


A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2019, 10:25:18 AM »
AG -
I read those comments and I don't want to believe them. I don't like having my most cynical & grumbling opinions confirmed -- ie, in this case, that money & ego & status once again rule the day. I'd much rather like to think (and be comforted by a romantic view) that my differences with the USGA are rooted in honestly-held principles and good-faith value systems, ie that officials there truly believe that USGA championships are and should be unique tests of golf, that the 'set-ups' actually do highlight the architecture and identify the best golfer of all, and that those set-ups are informed by the most expert opinion available (whether from inside the USGA or not) -- sought out by those officials in the name of professionalism and due diligence and a duty to the game and its great & iconic courses.
As I say, I find it unpleasant to think this is not the case.
Peter,

I, too, would prefer to think all of the same things about the USGA that you would prefer to believe.  But the operation just makes that impossible.  Like the NCAA, the USGA seems to me to be more about preserving control than doing the right thing, and the revenue stream seems paramount. 


Many years ago, when I knew far less about golf courses than now, and before the run of US Open setup disasters, a friend who is in the golf business and whose work intersected with the USGA quite often said to me, "You wouldn't want the USGA to even run the Member-Guest at your club."

More recently, my son, an assistant superintendent at a private club, worked with the USGA when his club hosted a USGA national championship.  From his perspective, the experience was just awful, and nearly resulted in his course losing their greens completely.  (Surprise!)  The best story was that the USGA demanded that week before the tournament started that the USGA hole signs, which were on 4x4's buried about three feet deep, be redone so that they were each a foot higher than the crew had installed them, despite no guidance in advance from the USGA about that critical matter.  So the week of a major amateur championship, that's what the crew was spending time on; digging holes.

I think that in ANY large organization, critical self-examination and a culture in which mistakes are owned and admitted and corrected is a paramount virtue.  I also think this does NOT come naturally, and especially so if you are a monopoly, which the USGA clearly is.  In economic theory, the problem with monopolists isn't that they are getting rich; it's that the incentives for higher quality at lower prices just aren't there. 


And so it is with the USGA monopoly; what is their incentive to be self=critical and to improve their product, given that they believe that they know more than you do?  So they make groove rules and anchoring bans and the like, with no real evidence supporting their decisions; it's just how they FEEL.  That's fine, I suppose, but is it then surprising when they apply the same operating principles to pin placements and turf health on a golf course about which they know far less than others?

Put another way, do you have confidence that the USGA will have learned enough to NOT screw up Pebble Beach?  Because I don't; I rather assume that they will.  It's who they are.



"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 11
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2019, 02:12:44 PM »
The setups for most USGA events are quite good.  I went to the Curtis Cup at Pacific Dunes and there were no issues - I hope that the same is true for the Four Ball later this month.  Stonewall was great for the amid Am, even though they built a couple of tees that were unnecessary in my view.


But for the US Open they totally lose the thread, because they are thinking about the winning score, and because there are committees of guys micromanaging every detail.  They totally forget how to leave well enough alone, because it’s their big week and they want to be seen as doing a great job.  The pros would prefer if the setup was so simple that nobody even talked about it, but that is not what the USGA wants.  They want you to see how much you need them.

A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2019, 03:50:35 PM »
The setups for most USGA events are quite good.  I went to the Curtis Cup at Pacific Dunes and there were no issues - I hope that the same is true for the Four Ball later this month.  Stonewall was great for the amid Am, even though they built a couple of tees that were unnecessary in my view.


But for the US Open they totally lose the thread, because they are thinking about the winning score, and because there are committees of guys micromanaging every detail.  They totally forget how to leave well enough alone, because it’s their big week and they want to be seen as doing a great job.  The pros would prefer if the setup was so simple that nobody even talked about it, but that is not what the USGA wants.  They want you to see how much you need them.
To this point, from the article:

"Everything that goes wrong at the US Open, the genesis is their obsession with the players not shooting under par."

That is followed by this parenthetical note:"The average winning score since 2001 is 3.39 strokes uner par, including 16 under by Rory McIlroy on a soggy Congressional in 2011 and 16 under by Brooks Koepka on the wide fairways of Erin Hills in 2017 when the anticipated high winds failed to blow."

Which means, if my math is correct, that the average winning score MINUS the 2011 and 2017 scores, is 1.81 strokes under par.  Which is sort of incredible.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2019, 04:38:35 PM »
Any organization soliciting volunteer labor to hand out checks of over $1million to play golf should be met with intense scrutiny and skepticism at every possible turn.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

V. Kmetz

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2019, 09:17:21 PM »
...  They totally forget how to leave well enough alone, because it’s their big week and they want to be seen as doing a great job.  ... They want you to see how much you need them.


I feel this observation is true and at the heart of what is wrong with many organizations and their systems in today's world.  And it is the companion reason that everything costs so much...
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Garland Bayley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2019, 10:42:01 PM »
Since they did not name anyone they supposedly quoted, it seems to me to be trash journalism. Just like John Kavanaugh's posts to this website were total trash before he was forced to identify himself, and give up his Barney moniker.

Jack Nicklaus has always attested to tour pros complaining about USGA setups. He just figured they were people he didn't have to beat.

Phil Mickelson is so Figjam I couldn't care less what he thinks. Anyone who wants to follow him is a fool IMO.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Anthony Butler

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2019, 09:23:58 AM »
But what can possibly be the equivalent situation with the USGA? To use your example, how & why (ie in what context or organizational culture) can purely functional-operational proposals for digital services be deemed not politically viable?
Maybe politically viable is a confusing term in this context. As an example, a particular idea was rejected because someone at the USGA had already 'tried' that.

When I asked for details they described an initiative that while it addressed the same problem, was so different in execution it shocked me that anyone would think it was the same idea. I see a lot of that as a consultant, organizations that think once they fail to solve a problem it must be 'unsolvable'.  The USGA was just the most egregious at drawing that conclusion, which speaks (I think) to a level of arrogance at the top levels of their organization.

Anyone who has listened to the clueless and tone-deaf pronouncements from Mike Davis and others over the years would likely come to the same conclusion.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:36:38 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2019, 11:49:08 AM »
If everyone likes to hang an ornament on the Christmas Tree, there's only one solution: don't let them get near the Christmas Tree.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jim Nugent

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2019, 08:46:50 PM »
That is followed by this parenthetical note:"The average winning score since 2001 is 3.39 strokes uner par, including 16 under by Rory McIlroy on a soggy Congressional in 2011 and 16 under by Brooks Koepka on the wide fairways of Erin Hills in 2017 when the anticipated high winds failed to blow."

Which means, if my math is correct, that the average winning score MINUS the 2011 and 2017 scores, is 1.81 strokes under par.  Which is sort of incredible.
I may well have made an arithmetic mistake, but I get... 17 years x 3.39 = 57.63.  57.63 - 32 = 25.63.  Divide by 15 = 1.71. 

i.e. if I my math is right, the average other than those two years is 1.71 strokes under par.  Quite close to your result, but even closer to even par. 

ward peyronnin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2019, 10:32:36 PM »
Perhaps revealingly comments by those identified as Euro players were thoughtful and generally copastetic with the recent formats. Could it be that PGA Tour players are spoiled brats who expect to play on virtual golf courses ride mercedes courtesy cars endless buffets and a full regalia of support staff to be accomodated etc simply love to bitch at something they cannot control?
They complained about inadequate purses on each page as well
They complained that it is not enjoyable golf. Well i don't enjoy watching 21 under dart games. Nobody complained about Erin Hills set up did they. I enjoy watching these egomaniacs struggle like most everyday golfers challenged to keep their focus because this weekend golf is really hard and grind it out. Cest la Vie
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2019, 06:28:57 AM »
Perhaps revealingly comments by those identified as Euro players were thoughtful and generally copastetic with the recent formats. Could it be that PGA Tour players are spoiled brats who expect to play on virtual golf courses ride mercedes courtesy cars endless buffets and a full regalia of support staff to be accomodated etc simply love to bitch at something they cannot control?
They complained about inadequate purses on each page as well
They complained that it is not enjoyable golf. Well i don't enjoy watching 21 under dart games. Nobody complained about Erin Hills set up did they. I enjoy watching these egomaniacs struggle like most everyday golfers challenged to keep their focus because this weekend golf is really hard and grind it out. Cest la Vie

This is the lazy take.

"I enjoy watching them struggle?"

Really? There's a fundamental difference between something being difficult and something being a struggle. You are struggling to beat the field and if the other guy is just as likely to card a 3 on a hole as you are that is truly the test of execution - yours against the field.

The more the golf course setup intrudes, the more it becomes a farce.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2019, 07:39:32 AM »
That is followed by this parenthetical note:"The average winning score since 2001 is 3.39 strokes uner par, including 16 under by Rory McIlroy on a soggy Congressional in 2011 and 16 under by Brooks Koepka on the wide fairways of Erin Hills in 2017 when the anticipated high winds failed to blow."

Which means, if my math is correct, that the average winning score MINUS the 2011 and 2017 scores, is 1.81 strokes under par.  Which is sort of incredible.
I may well have made an arithmetic mistake, but I get... 17 years x 3.39 = 57.63.  57.63 - 32 = 25.63.  Divide by 15 = 1.71. 

i.e. if I my math is right, the average other than those two years is 1.71 strokes under par.  Quite close to your result, but even closer to even par.
Jim,

I will accept your math as correct without even bothering to check.  Were any of my high school math teachers still living, they would rush to your defense as well.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2019, 07:55:55 AM »
Perhaps revealingly comments by those identified as Euro players were thoughtful and generally copastetic with the recent formats. Could it be that PGA Tour players are spoiled brats who expect to play on virtual golf courses ride mercedes courtesy cars endless buffets and a full regalia of support staff to be accomodated etc simply love to bitch at something they cannot control?
They complained about inadequate purses on each page as well
They complained that it is not enjoyable golf. Well i don't enjoy watching 21 under dart games. Nobody complained about Erin Hills set up did they. I enjoy watching these egomaniacs struggle like most everyday golfers challenged to keep their focus because this weekend golf is really hard and grind it out. Cest la Vie
Ward,

The question of whether or not Tour pros are "spoiled brats" is a separate one from whether or not the USGA has done a consistently poor job in managing course conditions and setups at recent US Opens; both can be true, of course.

I understand that many do not like the Tour events that are "21 under dart games", and I suppose that I can sort of understand the joy some take in seeing Tour pros struggle with conditions.  But there is a world of difference, at least to me, in seeing Tour pros struggle in the wind and rain of a British Open, and seeing them struggle with greens that don't have grass on them.  And I think there is a world of difference between 21 under and 2 under.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this idea of watching "watching these egomaniacs struggle like most everyday golfers challenged to keep their focus because this weekend golf is really hard and grind it out"  They have to do that regardless of the course conditions coming down the stretch of ANY Tour event, much less a major.  When 4 out of the 5 leaders hit the ball in the water on #12 at ANGC a few weeks back, course conditions were PERFECT, but they still had to battle like "everyday golfers", and "grind it out".  There are three guys in golf history whose ability to "grind" seems to stand out; Hogan, Nicklaus, and Woods.  I fail to see how introducing randomness through bad conditions and setups enhances our appreciation of what those guys achieve.

Put another way, with weekend golf in mind, if YOU encountered greens in the condition that we've seen in Opens at Chambers Bay and Shinnecock and Oakmont, but at a $25 public course, would you go back if there were other options available?  I wouldn't.  If the greens at your club were in that condition, would the superintendent's job be safe?
 
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

ward peyronnin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: US Open setup discussion in Golf Digest
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2019, 08:24:23 AM »
I don't totally disagree with what you say AG.

I can't remember the "no grass on the greens condition"  until the aftereffect of the conditioning which seem to be your sticking point.

All i know is that when I was at Cruden Bay last year and the members were  relishing the crusty conditions there was no one out there syringing greens or attempting to return the course to "tournament" conditions for us. As for the OPen they used to all bitch about that setup too ie Scott Hoch calling TOC a goat ranch

Maybe if the pros weighed in on dialing back the ball the USGA wouldnt have felt compelled to try to come up with more and more extreme ways to test the best players but you don't hear that either. I know that when Victoria national first opened the buxx was that the way the owner had Fazio set up the course he would never get a tournament because it was too hard and would make the pros look bad.

They blew Dustin Johnson situation but then so did the PGA. They
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman