Greatest courses on small sites

[Ally Mcintosh]

This thread needs figures.


Merion is the poster child I think on 120 acres. Riviera’s site must be quite small... what other great courses are on small sites?


And what are the best modern courses built on total site areas of less than 150 acres, clubhouse, sheds and practice area included?

[Sean_A]

I am not going to mess around trying to measure a site (it is ~40 acres all in), but I think The Sacred 9 must be considered among the bestest with the leastest.  I am going to throw Reigate Heath in the mix as well because I think its loads beter than given credit for.

I am struggling to think of any other obvious candidates.  I can recall being very surprised how big Deal's property is, but  don't recall the acerage.  This makes me think North Berwick is bigger than it seems. 

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Most modern courses win awards for being the biggest and the best.  [Think Mammoth Dunes.]  I'm not sure I can think of a "small" 18-hole course that's gotten a lot of notoriety in recent times . . . I have to go back to Caledonia in Myrtle Beach to think of one.


Note that I am a big fan of such small puzzles that are well done -- Merion, Kingston Heath, Mildenhall, the two polo fields at Ellerstina -- but I don't mind building courses across large landscapes, either.  Barnbougle might be one of my smallest sites: the dunesland is quite narrow at either end, though the property did not end there.

[Tim Martin]

Wannamoisett sits comfortably on 106 acres. Cape Arundel is set on 88 acres.

[Greg Smith]

I am thinking Shoreacres qualifies.   And there's just a ton of interesting terrain packed into that property, which is rather unusual for Chicagoland.

While in the neighborhood, what about Beverly as well?  Each nine packed separately into a rectangular block within the Chicago street grid -- yet you'd never know it with the angles as they are.

[Peter Pallotta]

For those who know:
Might it be true that, in a subtle way, what you're appreciating with a small site is the great 'architecture' while with a large site it's the great 'course'?
And, if so, do you think it's easier to sell/market (especially to the high end) the course rather than the architecture, the experience rather than the game?
With the market for high-end golf being so mature (both in age and # of courses played), is the aim with large sites to provide an experience first and foremost?
And in turn, might that aim/ethos, as time passes and lesser hands get involved, lead to less architecture and ultimately to courses that are less interesting and good for the game itself?
Peter

[Jeff Schley]

I am thinking Shoreacres qualifies.   And there's just a ton of interesting terrain packed into that property, which is rather unusual for Chicagoland.

While in the neighborhood, what about Beverly as well?  Each nine packed separately into a rectangular block within the Chicago street grid -- yet you'd never know it with the angles as they are.

Shoreacres does feel like a small footprint.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

The following is a great tool for calculating areas.  Interfaces with Google Earth/Maps and you can draw shapes around stuff like golf courses.  It then calculates the area.

https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm#


I got about 132 acres for North Berwick, FYI

[Greg Smith]

The following is a great tool for calculating areas.  Interfaces with Google Earth/Maps and you can draw shapes around stuff like golf courses.  It then calculates the area.

https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm#


I got about 132 acres for North Berwick, FYI

With this tool, Shoreacres is 135 acres, and that includes the big chunk of land area by the clubhouse which goes out to the lake.

Beverly, on the other hand, is 152 acres, divided in two 76-acre plots.   So that doesn't qualify as small, maybe.

[Tim Rooney]

Scioto on 110 acres.

[Kevin Neary]

Wilshire is set on 100 acres.

[V. Kmetz]

Siwanoy  = 104 acres

[Mike_Clayton]

Whilst nowhere near great Royal Perth is good (and could be better with some simple changes) and it's on about 80 acres.

[David_Tepper]

Claremont in Oakland, CA is a par-68 course with a very small footprint (and a pair of crossing fairways).

There have been threads on this before.

[J_ Crisham]

The following is a great tool for calculating areas.  Interfaces with Google Earth/Maps and you can draw shapes around stuff like golf courses.  It then calculates the area.

https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm#


I got about 132 acres for North Berwick, FYI

With this tool, Shoreacres is 135 acres, and that includes the big chunk of land area by the clubhouse which goes out to the lake.

Beverly, on the other hand, is 152 acres, divided in two 76-acre plots.   So that doesn't qualify as small, maybe.

Greg,
               FYI- the 152 acres at Beverly is our entire club property. The routing is sited on close to 130 acres. In fact as I recall it's a touch less- I would have to dig out the specifics that I have in our club archives. In any case,  the Ross routing ingeniously utilizes the ridgeline on the front nine. The back nine also exhibits some superior hole placements to maximize the movement of the property. Hard to believe we will be embarking on our long awaited and anticipated master plan restoration in only 4 months.

[J_ Crisham]

Another gem on a smallish but never cramped feeling piece of ground is Old Elm. Very few courses flow as seamlessly over a property as OE. A par 73 course that you never tire of playing.

[Ally Mcintosh]

No one has suggested a great modern yet.


Most of the 2nd Golden Age architects have been given vast landscapes to route their courses - generally that presents an altogether different set of challenges than trying to do a jigsaw on a tight property.


What are the best courses from the last 40 years on 150 acres?

[Sean_A]

It's much more difficult for modern courses to come in around 100 acres for the course alone than in the past because there is the idea of starting out with ample space rather than making do with what is available. Crossover holes, playing over greens, tees immediately near greens, playing hard near roads etc are all frowned upon concepts these days. Not to mention that modern courses are generally longer. Plus, modern designers can't get away the notion of planning for 2ball golf. I mean if the Sacred 9 allowed 4balls there would bedlam. I think the course would feel crowded if there were 36 golfers playing as 2balls. I would think a modern course would hope to support 128 golfers at once. Many 18 hole courses on small properties would feel very crowded with that many golfers at once.


Ciao



Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

It's much more difficult for modern courses to come in around 100 acres for the course alone than in the past because there is the idea of starting out with ample space rather than making do with what is available. Crossover holes, playing over greens, tees immediately near greens, playing hard near roads etc are all frowned upon concepts these days. Not to mention that modern courses are generally longer. Plus, modern designers can't get away the notion of planning for 2ball golf. I mean if the Sacred 9 allowed 4balls there would bedlam. I think the course would feel crowded if there were 36 golfers playing as 2balls. I would think a modern course would hope to support 128 golfers at once. Many 18 hole courses on small properties would feel very crowded with that many golfers at once.


Ciao



Ciao

You can fit 7,000 yard courses in to 150 acres with ample safety distances and without having to resort to crossing over.


Easily.


As long as the site doesn’t have too many restrictions in shape, topography or environmental form.


Not 100 acres. But I’m not asking that.

[Thomas Dai]

Whilst nowhere near great Royal Perth is good (and could be better with some simple changes) and it's on about 80 acres.

Mike,


Out of interest how many acres is Healesville?
Atb

[Kevin Neary]

Siwanoy  = 104 acres

That’s incredible that it’s only on 104 acres. Played in an MGA tournament last summer there and it felt a lot bigger than that.

[Anthony Butler]

Another gem on a smallish but never cramped feeling piece of ground is Old Elm. Very few courses flow as seamlessly over a property as OE. A par 73 course that you never tire of playing.

Ding for Old Elm and Shoreacres - two North Coast gems I was lucky enough to play while working for Abbott in Lake Bluff a few years ago.


In the Boston area, we have Winchester, Belmont and Charles River Country Club, three Donald Ross courses that all sit inside the 128 corridor on smallish plots of land. Winchester in particular, where playing from the back tees on some holes feels like you're teeing off someone's front lawn.

[Edward Glidewell]

No one has suggested a great modern yet.


Most of the 2nd Golden Age architects have been given vast landscapes to route their courses - generally that presents an altogether different set of challenges than trying to do a jigsaw on a tight property.


What are the best courses from the last 40 years on 150 acres?

Tom Doak mentioned Caledonia earlier and I'd second it. It's a fantastic course.


I think the entire property is 152 acres, but I doubt Mike Strantz actually had 152 acres to use for the routing.

[George Freeman]

Stoatin Brae looks to consume less than 150 acres.

[Tim Martin]

No one has suggested a great modern yet.


Most of the 2nd Golden Age architects have been given vast landscapes to route their courses - generally that presents an altogether different set of challenges than trying to do a jigsaw on a tight property.


What are the best courses from the last 40 years on 150 acres?

Tom Doak mentioned Caledonia earlier and I'd second it. It's a fantastic course.


I think the entire property is 152 acres, but I doubt Mike Strantz actually had 152 acres to use for the routing.

Edward-You are right for sure that Strantz had less than 152 acres and I thought it was closer to 120. Mike Whitaker would be a guy that would know the answer.