What makes someone an expert on something?

[Anthony Butler]

The act of being paid. or at least being forced to evaluate things for an audience can certainly help accelerate your journey towards being an expert.

Ran Morrissett would likely tell us he knows much more about all aspects of golf architecture since he started this site with a bit of knowledge, a lot of enthusiasm and a dream that grown men would some day argue over the minutae of George Thomas' life more than 80 years after he died.


I certainly learned a lot about music while being paid to review it and interview the people who created it... How they got their inspiration, the genesis and history of different musical genres, figuring out who possessed true musical talent versus someone propped up by the record company, how a great producer can turn a 3-chord tune into a hit single, the dynamics of a successful group...

Any golf architect who has an interest and track record in writing about their profession for publication probably has an advantage in knowledge over their fellow architects - all other things being equal - simply because they are forced to confront and resolve a wider range of questions than they get during their regular working day.

[Anthony Butler]

Ditto

[Kalen Braley]

Anthony,

I think what you are describing is a "professional".

In my line of work, I've known countless types like this, but very few experts...

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony,

I think what you are describing is a "professional".

In my line of work, I've known countless types like this, but very few experts...

I think you can be both... there's plenty of professionals I know who are competent in their job, but I don't seek them out for their expertise...


You can become an expert in the act of doing your job though. Just look at Bill Belichick.

[George Pazin]

Finally able to look back in on this thread (been busy utilizing my expertise on printing shirts... )

The term “expert” seems to be tied to expertise in technical matters. I’m not so sure one can be an expert in artistic endeavors. As for golf design, my feeling is the golf courses developed by technical experts with an overriding focus on functionality fall far short of those developed by artists. Unfortunately, due I think to the demand for excellent conditions and the fear of backlash if one falls a little short, the technical is dominating the artistic in modern Golf design.

I like this answer a lot, particularly the first sentence. But I do also agree with the guy Peter P cited about the value of technical expertise as well.


John Kirk -


Re: the Jeopardy guy, he certainly knows A LOT. And I say that as someone who is at least moderately proficient at trivia. But what really has separated him from the others who had runs of dominance is the approach. He's not going randomly, as some writers have suggested. He starts with a category he likes with the highest dollar question and then proceeds to clear all of the clues simply by clearing the big dollar amounts first, and then continuing across the amount, then moving up to the next dollar level, etc. The strategy will only work with someone who knows a lot and can dominate.


And two asides on Jeopardy: 1) I think there is something about champions that they are simply better at buzzing in - you often see others frustrated because they know the answer and can't buzz in quickly enough, or time it right and 2) I've said to my wife who watches with me that I think the questions, especially the daily doubles, are easier in 2019, as though they want big numbers. Holzhauer has had more than a few DDs where the answer was simply the obvious guess, even if you don't know it.


Tom D -


That's certainly an excellent distinction, between being an observant critic of sorts versus being a creator. And I don't think the author of the article notices that distinction, though I could be wrong that assessment. But I still maintain that Pop's true expertise is personal relationships and team building, and the use of wine and food is merely the method of implementation.


And, curiously, I have a friend who is named Robert Parker, and he is an "expert" on craft beer! He is actually a chemistry professor, and one of the classes he teaches is in the chemistry related to beer. I will have to ask him if he knows of Robert Parker the wine guy, though I'm sure he does.


----


The only thing I think I'm an expert in is knowing what I like. And sometimes I think that's the only expertise anyone has.

[Tom Allen]

In the legal world (for what that is worth), a person can be declared an expert by proving that he or she has skill, knowledge, experience, education, or training in the subject about which they are about to testify.


So in my little world, at least, there are many alternate ways to become an expert in a certain field.


At the risk of stating the obvious, hands-on experience, formal training, or even obtaining an advanced degree are all acceptable ways to start becoming an expert.  There are therefore many ways to gain the knowledge sufficient to be able to speak eloquently and knowledgeably about a certain subject matter.

[Ira Fishman]

There are many experts in virtually all fields.  However, there are far fewer experts with wisdom.  A wise expert is one who knows what he knows, knows what he does not, and never confuses the two.  And a wise expert is one who is open to changing his or her mind and perspective.  As Churchill famously said when an opponent accused him of flip flopping: "When the facts change, I change my opinion.  Sir, what do you do?"


Ira

[Lou_Duran]

There are many experts in virtually all fields.  However, there are far fewer experts with wisdom.  A wise expert is one who knows what he knows, knows what he does not, and never confuses the two.  And a wise expert is one who is open to changing his or her mind and perspective.  As Churchill famously said when an opponent accused him of flip flopping: "When the facts change, I change my opinion.  Sir, what do you do?"


Ira

Interesting take.  And what is wisdom?


My definition is less nuanced.  An expert is someone whose learning and experience in a specific discipline are widely recognized, and he is paid handsomely by competent parties for independent, unvarnished counsel and advice.


I would consider George Pazin an expert in printing Tee shirts; Tom Doak in designing natural, mostly unique club courses; Don Mahaffey in managing highly efficient golf operations; and Steve Wilson as a Churchill historian.  More than a "thinker" or a "theorist", an expert is a doer.     

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou,


I wonder if the definition would be someone who has accomplished something in a particular field at least twice, because succeeding just once isn't a pattern?

[Ian Andrew]

It used to be publication and peer review.

I don't think people want expertise, they want personal conformation, then that person is "their" expert.

[John Kirk]

There are many experts in virtually all fields.  However, there are far fewer experts with wisdom.  A wise expert is one who knows what he knows, knows what he does not, and never confuses the two.  And a wise expert is one who is open to changing his or her mind and perspective.  As Churchill famously said when an opponent accused him of flip flopping: "When the facts change, I change my opinion.  Sir, what do you do?"


Ira

Interesting take.  And what is wisdom?


My definition is less nuanced.  An expert is someone whose learning and experience in a specific discipline are widely recognized, and he is paid handsomely by competent parties for independent, unvarnished counsel and advice.

I'm sorry in advance.  This has been gnawing at me since it was posted.  This is simply wrong.  I could be the world's most knowledgable and thoughtful authority on a given subject, but would rather stay home and smell the flowers, never making a dollar on my expertise.  I would still be the world's most knowledgable and thoughtful authority.

Commerce has nothing to do with it.

Signed,
John KirkExpert Golf Course Analyst
 

[George Pazin]

I could be wrong, but I think he is saying that the fact that someone is willing to pay supports the notion that someone is an expert. I'd hesitate to commit to the notion that anyone sitting around his house with his large body of knowledge, but unwilling to commit to putting any price on it, is any sort of expert. He sure may think he is, and he may well be, but sitting around without any sort of interaction doesn't make me feel confident of his expertise.


In other words, I think Lou is equating the exchange of hard earned dollars with the peer review process that Ian cites. I can't say I disagree with that... I surely wouldn't say that's it's simply wrong, maybe arguably wrong.



For me, I think it's tougher than all of the above. Am I an expert in printing t's? Relative to pretty much everyone on here (that I'm aware of), yeah. Am I the best t shirt printer around? Some of my clients would say yes, some may equivocate.... I certainly see shirts that I don't know if I could print, but when I think about that, it's mostly on a large, profitable scale (I wouldn't want to print the perfect t if I couldn't make something from it - it's a business, not an art form). If someone is willing to pay enough, I think I can produce just about anything they want, subject to our technical limitations (my press will only print a certain max size, for instance - if you want a bigger print, you need someone with a bigger press).

[Lou_Duran]

I think one requirement is that a person serve on a green committee or a Homeowners Association board along the way.  That's where I have met the most experts...

I used to talk with the GM of two profitable daily-fee courses in north Texas, one that sold nearly 50k rounds annually, the other that was part of a large, highly successful retirement community.  He spent most of his time at the first course, not because it required more attention, but because he wasn't constantly bothered by retirees who once ran a small business or wore a suit in middle management coming into his office to tell him how to operate "their" course.


The corporate developer of the community had no appetite for owning the course after the project was 70%+ completed so it was offered to the large HOA for about $3 Million.  Reportedly, the price was less than the cost of the new clubhouse that had just been completed and probably about 30% of the golf property's total cost.


The club's 200+ member MGA in conjunction with the HOA representing some 1,500 owners argued about it for a while and were unable to come to an agreement.  The management company then had the next right of refusal, and it passed.  The GM told me that it could have made sense financially, but having to suffer all the resident "experts" made the purchase too complicated and risky.  A first time Korean golf investor ended up buying the golf course and apparently he wasn't impressed by these "experts" so he basically fought them for a few years before selling the course to another first-time Korean golf investor.


Jeff,


Two points are a trend, but just as a blind squirrel can find an acorn once, it is also possible for him to stumble onto a second one.  I am not a difficult grader, but I think that a long track record of achievement better bestows the label.  Of course, my needs for an "expert" are relatively few, specially when it comes to opinions relating to golf.  And yes, this is all relative; there are different levels of expertise, some very narrow, some rather broad.


Ian,


Confirmation bias was rampant at the academy in the early to mid 70s when I was intimately involved in grant-driven research.  I've seen two or three of my pot-smoking young professors in the social sciences become "lions" in their fields, one whose "research" became a cornerstone of draconian disparate impact policies in the previous administration.  Frankly, I veered away from graduate work in the field in part because of the crap and corruption I saw regularly which passed as "scholarship".


John,


No need to apologize for your opinion.  Being well-paid by competent buyers of your expertise may not be necessary, but it tends to verify or reinforce the label or claim.  And yes, one could know everything there is to know about something, but if he keeps it to himself, other than for one's personal amusement, what good is it?  How do we know to bestow the qualification of "expert"?  I know that you have some deep-seated concerns with commerce, but isn't there a marketplace of ideas, knowledge, and expertise?  I know any number of guys who are trying to find ways to make money in golf.   I think that those who are well-paid to opine about gca or design and build courses can claim some level of expertise.


 

[Kalen Braley]

I tend to agree with John K on this one.  Pay and Expertise often don't go hand in hand, and in many cases I suspect its a relationship, perception, or pricing structure that ultimately drives one to do business with another..not their actual knowledge.

[Lou_Duran]

Kalen,


Expertise is not a single point, but a range.  For certain things, say getting a flu shot, I may opt for a Walmart pharmacy; for a spinal fusion I'm going to skip an inexpensive Doc'N'Box, and pay top dollar for an "expert" neurosurgeon.  Perhaps you come from a different branch of homo economicus than mine, but my buying decisions of consequence are driven by value, which very much considers the necessary quality of the product and its cost.  Though people tend to do business with other people like themselves, the prerequisite is nearly always that the product delivered meets the buyer's needs.  Relationships are indeed important.  These are not usually based on playing golf together, but on the mutual benefit of the association.  I would argue that a good programmer who demonstrates his expertise and value to his employer will command relatively high compensation.  One who may have great knowledge but sits on it, not so much.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

In the legal world (for what that is worth), a person can be declared an expert by proving that he or she has skill, knowledge, experience, education, or training in the subject about which they are about to testify.


So in my little world, at least, there are many alternate ways to become an expert in a certain field.


At the risk of stating the obvious, hands-on experience, formal training, or even obtaining an advanced degree are all acceptable ways to start becoming an expert.  There are therefore many ways to gain the knowledge sufficient to be able to speak eloquently and knowledgeably about a certain subject matter.

Tom,


From time to occasional time, I have served as an expert witness in court cases.  I know Forrest Richardson and a lot of other architects have, too.  I don't care for it, but when a friend in the industry comes under what I consider to be unfair fire, and ask for my help, I usually give it. (perhaps 5 times in 35 years)


When it comes to golf related lawsuits, I have seen some very less than expert credentials passing as expert witnesses.  Of course, those who can, do, those who can't can still make a career out of course testimony.  The legal field has, IMHO, a pretty low standard for expertise, which is surprising to me. 


I gather its because most lawyers get few golf related lawsuits and probably don't know the difference between a golf course architect and anyone else, sometimes picking pros, business consultants, and guys on the fringes of the golf biz as their experts, not to mention, as previously mentioned, most of truly in the biz avoid that kind of work if we can.

[John Kirk]

I can't devote much time to this right now.

Lou,

I don't think I have deep-seated concerns about commerce.  Whether it be private commerce or public governmental administration, I have concerns about greed and corruption, and properly policing unjust activity.  I want efficiency, and I want financial compensation commensurate with societal contribution.



Your previous commentary equates expertise with financial compensation, and I don't necessarily agree.  While you see me as having "deep-seated concerns about commerce", I'm thinking "Lou thinks everything is related to money".  Let's say I was the world's leading expert on New Zealand ornithology, and was asked how to best protect the fairy tern (aka Tara Iti) as part of an effort to build a world class golf course.  That person may make a little money for offering their opinion, but it is unlikely they are compensated in any substantial way.  The big money passes hands when experts offer his/her thoughts or skills in a highly compensated profession, or in a way that benefits moneyed interests.

When I hear expertise, I think of great knowledge, and not necessarily skill.  I think of skill being a physical manifestation of knowledge and practice, but the simple definition of expertise is "expert skill or knowledge in a particular field."

Ian,

I assume you meant "confirmation", not "conformation".


All,


I'm also kind of frosted about the Buffalo project, where a certain architect is offering their services to rebuild a 9 hole and 18 hole course for the city for only $32 million.  They must be paying a lot for expertise in this case.


In general, golf course building expertise does not seem well correlated with the overall cost of golf projects.  Seems like some of the smartest architects and developers are not the best compensated.  But I'm no expert on that subject.


"It costs money because it saves money.  Cosmo Castorini sells new plumbing in the movie 'Moonstruck'"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slibJ52yoc

 

[Sven Nilsen]

So far no one in this thread has demonstrated any expertise in what it means to be an expert.

[Kalen Braley]

So far no one in this thread has demonstrated any expertise in what it means to be an expert.

Well you have our attention now Sven....please do enlighten us lowly souls on the matter!

[Ian Andrew]

...

[Steve Lang]

   Hi, my name is Steve.  In my vocation I'm a "SME" i.e., a subject matter expert.  I've spent 50 years, studying, learning, and practicing my interest.  I cashed out with a MS degree, as I didn't want to teach or do research, so no need for a PHD. 


IF there's one thing an expert needs to do, its to keep up with the advancing field of knowledge, what has fallen or been superseded, and how are the subject limits being tested.  An expert is a professional student and once the learning process stops, their relevance begins to fade.


So when I retire, I'll likely keep up reading my journals, researching topics, and working my gigabytes of files as long as possible, just in case I get the call!

[Sven Nilsen]

So far no one in this thread has demonstrated any expertise in what it means to be an expert.

Well you have our attention now Sven....please do enlighten us lowly souls on the matter!

The expert has the last word.


Are we done here yet?

[Garland Bayley]

I did mention it earlier, the reading of the article about Gregg Popovich's expertise in wine and the Jeopardy champ who has obliterated all the records, mostly by approaching the game in a different manner. It's nothing more than that.


When I think about the GP article, I mostly come to the conclusion that the author likely knows little about the subject, so he or she (can't remember, sorry) is blown away by Pop's knowledge. But what the author really should be noticing is his expertise in coaching and people relations - the wine and dinners are merely the medium for conveying his true expertise.

George:


I happened to read this article today - the link was shared by another friend.  Here it is for those interested:


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26524600/secret-team-dinners-built-spurs-dynasty

Yes, the author is blown away by Popovich's knowledge of wine, but apparently so are a lot of sommeliers across the country, and probably not just because he is an all-time-great tipper as well as a coach.

Does that make Pop an expert on the subject?  I think it depends on how you define the subject.  You don't have to know how to make great wine to appreciate the taste of it . . . but being an expert on wine is different than being an expert on how to make wine.  I'm not sure whether Robert Parker, who wrote the Doak Scale of wine, knows how to make wine.  He just knows how to drink it, and what people might like.

[For that matter, when I wrote the Doak Scale, I had not proven that I knew how to design a great golf course; I was still learning that part.]

Many here would qualify as experts on great golf courses.  They can tell you about every hole in the routing, what the greens are like, and how each hole adds to the experience.  But that doesn't mean they know anything about how to design a course, or how to build one.

On the flip side, there are people who are expert in building courses, who don't know or even care much about what makes a course great.

NOTE:  edited just to get text up to readable size, sorry!

Tom notes that he may not know how to make wine, likening it to a golfer that plays all the great courses not knowing a bit about how to design or build such a course.

I would point out that there is no evidence in the article that he even knows how to assess the wines he chooses, or drinks. He could simply be choosing based on others recommendations. Perhaps he carries Parker's guide with him everywhere he goes, as a French friend and colleague of mine did.

There are people who play lots of great courses, but perhaps can't tell the good holes from the bad.

I met a Pierce county commissioner who oversaw the creation of Chambers Bay who told me after playing an early preview round there that the 8th was the greatest hole on the course. I don't know anyone on this site that would call that expertise.

If Pop can ace the test that a friend of my aced, then we can think of him as an expert. Three soil types, six bottles of wine, two from each soil type. Blind tasting, match the wines to the soil.

[Anthony Butler]

I think one requirement is that a person serve on a green committee or a Homeowners Association board along the way.  That's where I have met the most experts...

I used to talk with the GM of two profitable daily-fee courses in north Texas, one that sold nearly 50k rounds annually, the other that was part of a large, highly successful retirement community.  He spent most of his time at the first course, not because it required more attention, but because he wasn't constantly bothered by retirees who once ran a small business or wore a suit in middle management coming into his office to tell him how to operate "their" course.

That is the fallacy of 'transferrable' expertise... people who think that whatever knowledge they have garnered in the course of their life is applicable to another situation, industry or endeavor. That mindset has caused people to lose lots of money, either their own, or the company they work for.


I've often admired the skill of people who manage golf clubs to give the appearance they are listening intently to their members' input on these occasions. 

[George Pazin]

I always say, smart, successful people are dangerous; they think they know everything...


Of course, my wife would say I think I know everything. To which I always respond, no, I know I know everything, there's a difference!


But I'm kidding, of course. If there's one thing that 25 years of printing t's has taught me, it's how little I really know about anything.


Sven -


I'm sad you didn't offer any thoughts. Maybe next time.