What if Tiger Wins The Masters?

[George Pazin]

 


Well wasn’t that just the best? At some time around 2:30, I felt a great disturbance in the force. It was as if hundreds of whining GCAers all groaned at once, then were silenced.


I was pulling for Tony, he’s the only person I will root for over Tiger. But if Tony wasn’t going to win, well, Tiger winning is just too sweet for words.


Yeah, he’ll never win again. Yeah, he’ll never win another major. Yeah, he’s done.


Yeah right.


I only wish I had saved all those sterling predictions for posterity.


 

[Mark Chaplin]

Phil you are right about luck, I have been staying with a friend this weekend who has played the course 30 times, Woods hit it into the trees on 13 I think yesterday and my friend said that’s a probable lost ball. Woods finds it, it’s playable and somehow he makes a birdie rather than a double.

[Carl Rogers]

He has won at Bethpage & PB.  He now knows he can win. Watch out.

[Bruce Katona]

The best thing that could occur for the game of golf - having Tiger win (yep he had some personal transgressions - let each of us who hasn't cast the 1 st stone).......inject life into the game, have real TV ratings, expose this next generation to someone who is one of the best in the sport ever.........and there will always be naysayers on GCA (lucky bounces, etc).


Enjoy the moment and lets hope for our game it occurs again.

[JMEvensky]

I'm struck a bit by the lack of commentary on one factor contributing to his win -- luck. Tiger had a number of errant drives, and most times seemed to have openings to shoot at the green or come up with a relatively easy recovery. That his errant ways off the tee didn't lead to doubles or worse, but often resulted in scrambling pars or bogeys at worst, is another testament to just how good he was this week. (And he seemed to figure out something mid-round Sunday that corrected his driving problem, another sign of his genius and achievements this week.)

To me, the "luckiest" break he got was the weather forecast for Sunday which forced 3-somes and put him in the last group. I'm guessing Molinari and Finau would've preferred watching Tiger play ahead of them. The dynamic is completely different when you're playing in his group.

[Steve Kline]

I'm struck a bit by the lack of commentary on one factor contributing to his win -- luck. Tiger had a number of errant drives, and most times seemed to have openings to shoot at the green or come up with a relatively easy recovery. That his errant ways off the tee didn't lead to doubles or worse, but often resulted in scrambling pars or bogeys at worst, is another testament to just how good he was this week. (And he seemed to figure out something mid-round Sunday that corrected his driving problem, another sign of his genius and achievements this week.)

To me, the "luckiest" break he got was the weather forecast for Sunday which forced 3-somes and put him in the last group. I'm guessing Molinari and Finau would've preferred watching Tiger play ahead of them. The dynamic is completely different when you're playing in his group.

I believe Molinari and Finau were the only two on the leaderboard to shoot over par Sunday. Coincidence?

[jeffwarne]

I'm struck a bit by the lack of commentary on one factor contributing to his win -- luck. Tiger had a number of errant drives, and most times seemed to have openings to shoot at the green or come up with a relatively easy recovery. That his errant ways off the tee didn't lead to doubles or worse, but often resulted in scrambling pars or bogeys at worst, is another testament to just how good he was this week. (And he seemed to figure out something mid-round Sunday that corrected his driving problem, another sign of his genius and achievements this week.)

To me, the "luckiest" break he got was the weather forecast for Sunday which forced 3-somes and put him in the last group. I'm guessing Molinari and Finau would've preferred watching Tiger play ahead of them. The dynamic is completely different when you're playing in his group.

great point

[Jeff_Brauer]

So what happens?  We get three breathless years to see if Tiger can reach 18 majors by the time of Jack's last win at 46.  Of course, Tiger supporters can argue his back is actually 68 years old......


All kidding aside, the best part of the whole deal was seeing a 43 year old man as happy as an 8 year old.  I hope, in our own lives, we can all recapture that level of joy at least once more.

[Thomas Dai]

Next years Masters Champions Dinner will be different.
Pundits, Tiger haters and all those who thought he was finished and wouldn’t win another Major etc will also be in attendance and Humble Pie will be on the menu!
Atb

[Dan Smoot]

Holy Moli!  Francesco fades and Tiger is ascending.

Molinari pulled a Speith....The Water Ball Brothers....

More like a Seve on 15

[Kalen Braley]

I was a Tiger doubter too, thinking he would never win a major again, but I enjoyed the result just as much as everyone else who was watching yesterday.

P.S.  And I will glady now pay up on a few standing bets with some friends.. 

[Kalen Braley]

I was pulling for Tony, he’s the only person I will root for over Tiger. But if Tony wasn’t going to win, well, Tiger winning is just too sweet for words.

George,

I noticed Tony wasn't wearing a green shirt yesterday...being in the final group of The Masters and all I was surprised.  What happened there?


"He started a tradition of wearing a green shirt in the final round on Sundays as a tribute to his mother. It was her favorite color. “I know she’s there, I know she’s following me,” he says."

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900014419/from-rose-park-to-augusta-tony-finaus-unlikely-journey-to-golfs-grandest-stage.html

[Mike Sweeney]

"This surgery was about quality of life because I didn't really have much," Woods told reporters earlier this week. "I've been in bed for about two years and hadn't been able to do much.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/other-sports/golf/2019/04/14/exactly-richard-guyer-plano-back-surgeon-responsible-tiger-woods-return-competitive-golf


Tiger's back surgeon, Dr Guyer, is obviously going to get more popular, but I would love to hear more about Tiger's rehabilitation. I was in the camp that I thought his back, not Tiger overall, was toast. Obviously Tiger thought the same at one point.

[George Pazin]

Kalen, I don't know, maybe he was worried his choice of green would clash with a green jacket. I really hope he gets one someday, and soon at that.


-----


I'll offer a small, teeny tiny apology to the other posters for my over-the-top smug post earlier. But many on here are too new to know of the Tiger Wars of 7-10 years ago. And I do wish I had kept record of the haters - and make no mistake, most of them weren't doubters, they were flat out haters. Kalen and Mike expressing their doubts that proved wrong are the minute exception. The rest of them are too embarrassed to admit their were driven by hate and punished for it. And there's more than a few.


Three to go. And that's for everyone else. I don't need any more to tell me what my eyes see.

[Kalen Braley]

George,

Thanks for the follow-up post.  I'm eating my humble pie and i have no problem with that.  I just want to clarify my doubts were never based in hate.  It was based in the aggregate of his multiple health issues,  the mental lows he endured, and mostly that no one has ever rebounded from a back surgery like he had to compete again at this level, much less win this type of event.

Cliches be damned... he truly is a one-of-a-kind and defied very long odds.

[Mike Sweeney]

But many on here are too new to know of the Tiger Wars of 7-10 years ago. And I do wish I had kept record of the haters - and make no mistake, most of them weren't doubters, they were flat out haters.

George,


I never hated Tiger, but certainly got tired of him and the Tiger Machine (Nike, Agents, and yes Earl). To be fair, I have no idea what it is like to be a dominant #1 player for years and years and have the Nike Machine ride me for maximum profits.


His Mom "Tida" has always stayed in the shadows and above the noise through it all, and it was really nice to see her out there yesterday:





His reaction to his Mom and his kids seemed very genuine. I think that Tida's Buddhist influence could be seen on much of that back 9. He was amazingly calm and never forced one shot. Tiger missed a few, but still recovered.  People want to point to the "Tiger Effect" today and how his competitors melted, but that was his FIRST ever come from behind Major victory, and who knows, maybe he has a shot at Jack's record.


And just to clarify as a father, I think Earl put Tiger in a ridiculous position:


https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/world-needs-leadership-more-golfers-does-make-tiger-woods-bad-guy


"Tiger will do more than any other man in history to change the course of humanity," Earl Woods said. No kidding? Smith was understandably skeptical, so he followed up: Would the kid do more than Buddha, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela? "Yes, because he has a larger forum than any of them," Earl said.

[V. Kmetz]

And I do wish I had kept record of the haters - and make no mistake, most of them weren't doubters, they were flat out haters. Kalen and Mike expressing their doubts that proved wrong are the minute exception. The rest of them are too embarrassed to admit their were driven by hate and punished for it. And there's more than a few.

Well GP, the first of those posts (late 09) can be found in the 430s of the current archive..and I'll save you the main parts of the search... it was really one a-hole inciting a small disgruntled crowd...that d-bag named Shivas, who's real name was Schmidt I really hope that guy is stuck in an Cambodian airport with diarrhea or something.

[Kalen Braley]

He's had so many injuries, sometimes its hard to keep track.  I had forgotten about the torn Achilles Tendon...

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/10709728/tiger-woods-injury-line

[George Pazin]

Kalen, Mike -


I definitely wasn't including either of you in the group of haters, as my post says. I, too, had my doubts as to whether Tiger would win another, but my doubts were driven by his physical condition and the realities of all sports at the highest level.


I just recall many many people on here expressing opinions that were not driven by anything other than envy, jealousy, hate, whatever. And I note that none of those people have posted on this thread and likely won't ever share The simple sentence "I was wrong" is just too difficult for many to admit, to themselves and others.


-----


Someone asked earlier about which Tiger this is, top Tiger or some other version. I definitely think it's some other version. but I will also admit, I'm hoping it's a return to top Tiger. He's older, and physically just not the same; likewise, his competition now - Koepka, DJ, Day, Spieth, and especially Rory (and that's leaving out a bunch of guys who could either raise their games or emerge a few years from now) - that competition is just beyond anything anyone else has faced. The silly notion floating around that Jack's competition wasn't as deep, but better at the top, is simply that, silly (and that's being kind to those who believe that). That defies EVERYTHING that ever happens in sports. It's always getting better.


I've had a long running argument with a close friend about Tiger. I said long ago Tiger had already shown he is the best ever. He still favors Jack, by that single metric of more major wins. After many discussions, and disagreements, I did make one point to him in his favor: Tiger had not yet beaten the next generation of greats in a major, while Jack did, with his Masters victory in 86, taking down Seve, Norman, etc. Well, guess what Tiger just did? Beat Koepka, DJ, Spieth, Day, and many many others, all at or near top form.


Case closed.

[George Pazin]

And I do wish I had kept record of the haters - and make no mistake, most of them weren't doubters, they were flat out haters. Kalen and Mike expressing their doubts that proved wrong are the minute exception. The rest of them are too embarrassed to admit their were driven by hate and punished for it. And there's more than a few.

Well GP, the first of those posts (late 09) can be found in the 430s of the current archive..and I'll save you the main parts of the search... it was really one a-hole inciting a small disgruntled crowd...that d-bag named Shivas, who's real name was Schmidt I really hope that guy is stuck in an Cambodian airport with diarrhea or something.

Yeah, Shiv was definitely the ring leader, but there were many others. I know Shivas and consider him a friend and a thoughtful poster on golf course architecture (and law and many other things, too); he just has a blind spot with regard to Tiger, as do many others. My best friend does as well, but I think it's more driven by a love of Jack than a hatred for Tiger.


I just like rubbing it in.

[Jim Nugent]

The change in equipment makes it hard to compare Tiger from the early 2000s and now.  That said, this week Tiger showed us stunning ball striking.  He led the field in GIR, hitting over 80% of all greens.  The last thee days he hit 87% of all greens.  Did he ever do that in his earlier wins? 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Well.. someone just won 1.2M in Vegas betting on him:




Tiger Woods’s Masters win earns one lucky gambler $1.2 million, crushes sportsbooks




https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/15/tiger-woodss-masters-win-earns-one-lucky-gambler-million-crushes-sportsbooks

[A.G._Crockett]

The change in equipment makes it hard to compare Tiger from the early 2000s and now.  That said, this week Tiger showed us stunning ball striking.  He led the field in GIR, hitting over 80% of all greens.  The last thee days he hit 87% of all greens.  Did he ever do that in his earlier wins?

I don't know about the wins, but Tiger in the "early years" was the best iron player in the world, with nobody else in contention.


Between '97 and 2007, he was first on Tour in GIR in 2000, 2002, 2006, and 2008, in the top ten four other times, and only outside the top ten when he was in swing change mode.  Even then, his GIR numbers were just percentage points away from the leaders.

There is a better analytic available now, though, again because of the work of Mark Broadie, which is the "median leave" from a given distance on an approach shot.  So on a shot from 100 yds, if your median leave was 30', your number would be 10%.  For the period that Broadie researched, Woods was the best on Tour at EVERY distance!  In fact, Broadie shows pretty conclusively that iron/approach play was the single thing that most separated Tiger from the rest of the Tour in those years, providing nearly half of his strokes gained against the field during those years, and twice as large as his next largest advantage over the field, which was putting.


Nicklaus talked about this after yesterday's win; he commented that even when Tiger couldn't hit the golf course from the tee, he was still the best iron player in the world, and could always get the ball around the green.  Significantly, Nicklaus compared yesterday to 1986, saying that neither he nor Tiger had forgotten what to do when they found themselves in contention coming down the stretch on Sunday.

[Peter Flory]

Someone asked earlier about which Tiger this is, top Tiger or some other version. I definitely think it's some other version. .

I believe that we just saw his best- nominally, not inflation adjusted. 

If you put this version of Tiger with his current equipment in a time machine and entered him into the 1997 tournament, I think that he would likely break the 17 under score.  But I think that about a dozen other guys would as well. 

Today's version of the course is 550 yards longer (31 yards per hole!) and significantly tighter.   

With the '97 equipment, he hit an 8 iron into 2, a 2-iron into 8, an 8 iron into 13, and a PW into 15.  He played those holes in 13 under that week and most of that was by 2-putting. 

[Mike Schott]

If anyone has the chance listen to the post round telephone interview of Nicholas onothe golf channel about his assessment. 


In short he said everyone but Tiger played 12 wrong and Tiger used every slope to his advantage.

I'm surprised there's so little discussion on Jack's post round comments. In typical fashion Nicklaus was brutally honest. It's obvious he's sees in Tiger's game a lot of his own which was to be patient and wait for the others to mess up. He was highly critical of Molinari's shot on 12, saying it was a club and a half short. He clearly had no tolerance for that sort of mistake. We all know Jack's take on the right pin is to aim for the middle of the green. Finau was clearly aiming for the pin.


The end result is Tiger played uber smart and was able to execute nearly every shot yesterday. The result is at 43 he's able to beat the younger flat bellies.