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Nick Ribeiro

What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« on: April 13, 2019, 08:11:24 PM »
I'll be interested to see the ratings this year after its all said and done IF Tiger wins The Masters. As it pertains to Golf Course Architecture, I will also be interested to see where Architecture goes from here and how ANGC motivates all the Superintendents who volunteer their time maintaining the course for the week. I have to imagine most industry professionals who go dream about getting their own course to those conditions, even though its impossible within the average greens budget. Last season after Bellerive and East Lake Tiger praised both designs and said he preferred golf courses that are straight forward and out in front of him. He likes to compete on courses that require extraordinary execution with limited options so everyone must hit similar shots, the harder the better. If Tiger wins does golf cater to his preferences for potential ratings? Does this mean longer courses? Holes with fewer options to the greens? Holes with extreme penalty everywhere? Can Tiger dictate architectural preference with a serious career comeback? Should be interesting. Up next, Bethpage, another hes praised..

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 08:32:35 PM »
It's Palm Sunday. If Tiger wins some long winded preachers are going to be out of work come Easter.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 09:47:46 PM »
All the men will throw their hats into the air, and there will be a hot time in the old town tonight.
Pulling for the old guy, but he's got some very impressive competition at the top of the leader board.  If Brooks Koepka wins again, it will be yet another major where the media isn't very focused on him, and on Sunday he magically takes control.
If I were making a wager, I'd bet on Molinari to win.  A two shot lead, with no discernible emotional involvement.

Good tournament so far!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 12:25:50 AM »
It's Palm Sunday. If Tiger wins some long winded preachers are going to be out of work come Easter.


John, my congregation always knew when I wanted out early. Of course, right now I am in Ireland in a monastery and these guys don't really care and I won't know the winner until I get up Monday morning at 3:45 for Vigils.  :'(
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 08:10:48 AM »
It's Palm Sunday. If Tiger wins some long winded preachers are going to be out of work come Easter.


John, my congregation always knew when I wanted out early. Of course, right now I am in Ireland in a monastery and these guys don't really care and I won't know the winner until I get up Monday morning at 3:45 for Vigils.  :'(


Two words come to mind. “Special dispensation”. ;)

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 12:41:30 PM »
I've never seen 12 play this way, but it takes me back to the days when the veterans all insisted you do not aim at the flag on Sunday.  It looks still on the tee but the wind knocks the ball down 10-15 yards.  4 of the last 6 players in the water.  13 and 15 playing short and coming up.  The golf is really exciting this year.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 12:48:30 PM by John Kirk »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 12:57:14 PM »
The big mass of T Storms are converging fast.  Not sure if they'll get the last few groups in....


https://www.wunderground.com/wundermap?lat=33.48&lon=-81.97&cm_ven=localwx_wumap

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 01:57:39 PM »
Holy Moli!  Francesco fades and Tiger is ascending.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 02:09:31 PM »
 8)  a cinderella story per IBF
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 02:10:09 PM »
Holy Moli!  Francesco fades and Tiger is ascending.


Molinari pulled a Speith....The Water Ball Brothers....

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2019, 02:13:53 PM »
Holy Moli!  Francesco fades and Tiger is ascending.


Molinari pulled a Speith....The Water Ball Brothers....


Four of the final six took a dive on 12.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2019, 02:17:28 PM »
Holy Moli!  Francesco fades and Tiger is ascending.


Molinari pulled a Speith....The Water Ball Brothers....


Four of the final six took a dive on 12.

But only one of them was ahead by 2 at the time and in great position to win...  ;)

P.S.  At least he didn't pull a Norman...

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2019, 02:20:53 PM »
 8)  So Tiger appears to be doing at 43 what Jack did at 46... that's kind'a cool too if he gets it across the finish line...


yeh, he's back Jack!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 02:29:15 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2019, 02:22:37 PM »
8)  So Tiger appears to be doing at 43 what Jack did at 46... that's kind'a cool too if he gets it across the finish line...


Brooks coulda put some major pressure on if he had made that putt on 18....but looks like Tiger has two putts to win now!

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2019, 02:42:03 PM »
...throws hat in the air, chants "Tiger" with the other revelers.

Peter Pallotta

Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 02:46:49 PM »
I'll remember most the tee shot on 16, landing and taking the slope almost exactly where & the way JN's did in '86.
That's the thing about golf, eh -- there's strategy and choices and managing emotions and architecture and luck (good & bad), but when it comes to winning it's most of all about hitting great golf shots, and more of them than everybody else.
       

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 03:07:57 PM »
Amazing achievement.
I wonder if the use of gum by golfers worldwide is now going to rise? Roundneck shirts too.
:)
Atb

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2019, 05:43:20 PM »
What do you guys think of Tiger's game now vs his peak?  Is he better, worse or about the same?

The related question: what does that say about today's top golfers?  Does Tiger face stiffer competition now, or is it easier?  I don't think the names (i.e. how many majors they won) matter so much as how the golfers he beat (or lost to) actually played against him.  That's true for both now and back then.   

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 05:58:27 PM »
He's certainly not at the dominant level he was at 20 years ago but I'd love to see that again!  I think the top tier is far deeper now than previously - back then you had Phil, Vijay, Ernie and a few others but nothing like JT, DJ, Koepka, Day, McIlroy, Reed, Rickie, Molinari, Stenson, etc. etc.  I think it's great for the younger guys to be able to see Tiger at or near his best and if he stays healthy he can easily stay elite for 5+ more years...if his back and knees are okay he's far fitter than Jack was in his 40s.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2019, 07:12:02 PM »
Today he proved that he is the best-ever, and he just showed a whole new generation of players what the likes of Mickelson, Duval, Couples, Parnevik, DiMarco, et alia, had to contend with. 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2019, 07:13:29 PM »
What do you guys think of Tiger's game now vs his peak?  Is he better, worse or about the same?

The related question: what does that say about today's top golfers?  Does Tiger face stiffer competition now, or is it easier?  I don't think the names (i.e. how many majors they won) matter so much as how the golfers he beat (or lost to) actually played against him.  That's true for both now and back then.   


I was there this year and what impressed me most was how he shaped and flighted every single shot and much than his competitors,  Every single shot was shaped and flighted. 

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 07:56:11 PM »
What do you guys think of Tiger's game now vs his peak?  Is he better, worse or about the same?

The related question: what does that say about today's top golfers?  Does Tiger face stiffer competition now, or is it easier?  I don't think the names (i.e. how many majors they won) matter so much as how the golfers he beat (or lost to) actually played against him.  That's true for both now and back then.   


Tiger faces more competition than ever.
Ran into a friend yesteday at The Masters.he was talking to Charles Howell on the range who commented that he(Charles) said he is playing the best golf of his life and can't win. His comment was he shot-19 and was in a playoff!


This competition is a result of
1.the generation Tiger inspired
2.The conditioning he inspired
3.better instruction-so much better
4.equipment that has leveled the playing field where a wrench, rather than improved technique, can produce superior ball flight.
To say nothing of thin faced rebounding drivers-now irons and fairwaywoods as well
Balls that have low spin off drivers, and high off wedges allow power players to play a fade without it being too spinny and/or upshooty, which is very reliable.
years ago, very few could ht a fade for any power unless they were incredibly shallow(Trevino, Hogan) and or powerful(Nicklaus, Lietzke)
So there are just more long straight drivers.
This equipment allows also players to stay relevant longer(Phil/Bernhard), while also allowing juniors the ability to learn great technique at a very early age (light enough)
So you have a 40-45 year window to be relevant-which creates a LOT of competition-example being Koepka would've tied for first today if Tiger had been cut, as he would've been in a team sport.(you don't send a 40 year old to AAA-you cut them)

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2019, 07:58:00 PM »
If anyone has the chance listen to the post round telephone interview of Nicholas onothe golf channel about his assessment. 


In short he said everyone but Tiger played 12 wrong and Tiger used every slope to his advantage. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2019, 09:02:37 PM »
What do you guys think of Tiger's game now vs his peak?  Is he better, worse or about the same?

The related question: what does that say about today's top golfers?  Does Tiger face stiffer competition now, or is it easier?  I don't think the names (i.e. how many majors they won) matter so much as how the golfers he beat (or lost to) actually played against him.  That's true for both now and back then.   


Peak Tiger today? No, and in all candor not that close. Peak Tiger was the best golf anyone ever played on the planet, so....no.


As a longtime commentator in these parts about Tiger, I'm not surprised -- particularly after last fall (PGA, Tour Championship at East Lake) -- that he'd be in contention in another major, and that he did so and won at Augusta National is perhaps the least surprising part of the equation. Tiger clearly loves the course, has since he first set foot on it as an amateur, and to do this day has a game well-suited for the course's unique set of challenges. He had by far the most experience playing that course than anyone on the leaderboard (not counting Lefty's brief foray to the first page), and the ability to manage your game under the pressure of a major on the last day is what separates major winners from others, and the greats from the pretenders.


I'm struck a bit by the lack of commentary on one factor contributing to his win -- luck. Tiger had a number of errant drives, and most times seemed to have openings to shoot at the green or come up with a relatively easy recovery. That his errant ways off the tee didn't lead to doubles or worse, but often resulted in scrambling pars or bogeys at worst, is another testament to just how good he was this week. (And he seemed to figure out something mid-round Sunday that corrected his driving problem, another sign of his genius and achievements this week.)


More than anything, I was struck by just how superbly he managed his game, particularly in the white-hot pressure that is the back nine at Augusta. Of all facets of his game, I thought the best part of it this week was his lag putting (the best shot I saw him strike all week was the first putt on the 9th green Sunday from the upper tier of that green -- that was a thing of utter genius and talent, and as good as peak Tiger). He just looked like a guy who thought: If I get this on the green, the worst I'm gonna do is two-putt (at one point Saturday, someone mentioned he led the field in GIRs). Witness the recovery shot at 11, with the pond lurking for a mis-hit; the tee shot on 12 to the middle of the green; the approaches on 13 and 15; the Jack-like tee shot on 16 that kept trouble out of the equation. Tiger to me won the tournament Sunday on holes 9-16, where really well-executed shots were rewarded with birdies and easy pars, and the occasional trouble that popped up led to no worse than bogeys (the smart punch-out at 10; watching Tiger manage Augusta this week was like watching an anti-Lefty show).


A great win by a great player, and a back nine show to rival some of the best at the Masters, which is saying a lot.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What if Tiger Wins The Masters?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2019, 10:49:03 PM »

Tiger faces more competition than ever.
Ran into a friend yesteday at The Masters.he was talking to Charles Howell on the range who commented that he(Charles) said he is playing the best golf of his life and can't win. His comment was he shot-19 and was in a playoff!


This competition is a result of
1.the generation Tiger inspired
2.The conditioning he inspired
3.better instruction-so much better
4.equipment that has leveled the playing field where a wrench, rather than improved technique, can produce superior ball flight.
To say nothing of thin faced rebounding drivers-now irons and fairwaywoods as well
Balls that have low spin off drivers, and high off wedges allow power players to play a fade without it being too spinny and/or upshooty, which is very reliable.
years ago, very few could ht a fade for any power unless they were incredibly shallow(Trevino, Hogan) and or powerful(Nicklaus, Lietzke)
So there are just more long straight drivers.
This equipment allows also players to stay relevant longer(Phil/Bernhard), while also allowing juniors the ability to learn great technique at a very early age (light enough)
So you have a 40-45 year window to be relevant-which creates a LOT of competition-example being Koepka would've tied for first today if Tiger had been cut, as he would've been in a team sport.(you don't send a 40 year old to AAA-you cut them)

Great post Jeff,

It appears to me the biggest difference between golf now and golf 10-20 years ago is the player's ability to hit very long fades off the tee.  I think it is mostly an improvement in equipment, especially the ball.  It used to be that players would hit the big high draw to get the distance they needed to excel, but now the balance has shifted to a 275-325 yard fade because it is more reliable, as it always has been.  I think it took Tiger a while to adjust his game to what now works best.

I'm very happy today.  I really like Tiger Woods, like many of us do, and it's almost always great in golf to see the old guy beat the young lions.  Tiger may be a more precise short iron player than he's ever been.  Brooks Koepka proved once again that he is a big time money player.  Beating Koepka is very difficult in big tournaments.

I can't get over how important the 12th hole was today.  For 10-20 years now we've watched the players lose their fear of shooting for the flag on Sunday, after us old folks were told for decades that you shouldn't do that.  It took a strange weather day with a strong south wind to make this happen.  Today the ahots just fell out of the sky.  Even Nick Faldo didn't quite comprehend what was happening.  After Molinari came up short, he thought Francesco simply hadn't hit it well enough, whereas me and Ben were thinking there was great danger after Koepka and Poulter came up short in the previous group.  Generally, the ball doesn't react to the wind near as much as it used to, so it was amazing to see four of the final six players hit it into the creek.  I can't believe Finau (or Poulter) did not take the hint and play left.  But it's been so long since the mythical power of the Sunday pin bared its teeth.

It's all downhill from here.  That's the best tournament we'll see this year.  I hope the other majors are great, too.