[Tommy Williamsen]

I'll go with Rye as well.

[Dave McCollum]

TOC.

[Mark Pearce]

TOC.

Not a club.  Certainly not a two ball club.

[John Kirk]

I thought of TOC, Dave, but figured the language in the mission statement was too informal.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Let me throw Royal St. George's into the ring

[George Pazin]

Reads like the Carthage Club’s.

[Tom_Doak]

Sorry, I forgot to get back to this.  Busy day!


The correct answer, guessed by several posters but by Tony Muldoon first, is Royal West Norfolk GC, aka Brancaster.  I don't have the letter in front of me now to quote it exactly, but the redacted words were in reference to the tides.


EDIT:  Now that I think about it, though, it's really a shame that so few clubs in the world could plausibly have been the one to write this.  And, as George P. said, it did sound a bit like The Carthage Club.

[Jeff Schley]

Sorry, I forgot to get back to this.  Busy day!


The correct answer, guessed by several posters but by Tony Muldoon first, is Royal West Norfolk GC, aka Brancaster.  I don't have the letter in front of me now to quote it exactly, but the redacted words were in reference to the tides.


EDIT:  Now that I think about it, though, it's really a shame that so few clubs in the world could plausibly have been the one to write this.  And, as George P. said, it did sound a bit like The Carthage Club.

Kudos to you Tony and cheers to Brancaster!

[Sean_A]

To be honest, I thought this was a mission statement based from experience of a handful of English clubs. Why? I have never heard or read a mission statement from an old school British golf club. Are they common?


Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean

I think the point is that the club were asked to write one rather than having one to work with if you know what I mean. I wonder if you asked the members of individual clubs to write a mission statement for their club whether there would be any consistency among them ? It seems to me that a lot of clubs aren't so easily defined and how different people view their character would vary.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Sean

I think the point is that the club were asked to write one rather than having one to work with if you know what I mean. I wonder if you asked the members of individual clubs to write a mission statement for their club whether there would be any consistency among them ? It seems to me that a lot of clubs aren't so easily defined and how different people view their character would vary.

I’m not sure what prompted RWN to write it out - perhaps they just wanted to be sure that potential consultants didn’t misunderstand their interest in having a consultant, and wanted to be perfectly clear that it wasn’t about shifting holes into more dramatic spots to impress visiting raters.  (Note that there is nothing in their statement about rankings, nor about the original designer.)


I have given this assignment to a couple of clubs that wanted to hire us as consultants, when I felt that there were different factions that needed to sort out their motivations, and that there was more than one legitimate way they could go.  (For example, was lengthening the course to preserve its challenge important to them?  RWN’s document does not mention it.)  Some clubs will no doubt try to have it all in their statement, but even then it will make them address their priorities for same.

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean -
a topic for another day, but it struck me that this mission statement is a sign of a still-evolving self consciousness & self awareness about the value of gca and the meaning of the game. I think there was a big jump in such awareness in the late 1800s and early 1900s, just as the likes of John Low and W&S and Colt etc came onto the scene; and that the most important function the renaissance (the movement & the design firm) has played has been to foster the next jump/deepening of this self-consciousness, especially among clubs like Brancaster. In short: pre renaissance members had & enjoyed their courses, post renaissance they enjoy & protect their courses because they really know and value what they have.

[Niall C]

Tom

Apologies I misconstrued your original post and I thought you had asked them to provide you with a mission statement. Certainly I think it is a worthwhile exercise for any club to do irrespective of whether they are looking to make changes to their course.

I was recently been a member of a historic old club where the then Captain of the club had decided to take an exercise in how best to use the existing clubhouse and turned that into a remit to how to substantially redevelop and expand it, which was neither required, asked for or as far as I can tell wanted by the members. It didn't happen (the clubhouse has subsequently been gutted in a fire) but the whole exercise was based on the Captains own personal vision of where he wanted the club to go. Everyone could have been spared a lot of trouble, and the club a lot of expense in terms of architect fees, if a mission statement had been in place.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

I was recently been a member of a historic old club where the then Captain of the club had decided to take an exercise in how best to use the existing clubhouse and turned that into a remit to how to substantially redevelop and expand it, which was neither required, asked for or as far as I can tell wanted by the members. It didn't happen (the clubhouse has subsequently been gutted in a fire) but the whole exercise was based on the Captains own personal vision of where he wanted the club to go. Everyone could have been spared a lot of trouble, and the club a lot of expense in terms of architect fees, if a mission statement had been in place.

And where was said Captain when the fire started?   


I agree with your last point.  As much as everyone here loves to promote good restoration work, I think there are enormous sums of money being wasted in the renovation and restoration side of the business these days, as clubs are talked into things they don't need, or even want.

[Sean_A]

I was recently been a member of a historic old club where the then Captain of the club had decided to take an exercise in how best to use the existing clubhouse and turned that into a remit to how to substantially redevelop and expand it, which was neither required, asked for or as far as I can tell wanted by the members. It didn't happen (the clubhouse has subsequently been gutted in a fire) but the whole exercise was based on the Captains own personal vision of where he wanted the club to go. Everyone could have been spared a lot of trouble, and the club a lot of expense in terms of architect fees, if a mission statement had been in place.

And where was said Captain when the fire started?   


I agree with your last point.  As much as everyone here loves to promote good restoration work, I think there are enormous sums of money being wasted in the renovation and restoration side of the business these days, as clubs are talked into things they don't need, or even want.

To be fair, a ton of restoration work is stuff that should ideally been dealt with as part of maintenance scheduling.


Ciao

[MClutterbuck]

Sorry for the OT comment, this is probably a question for a new thread, but since it is in the mission statement...


I embrace all things Scotland golf, except the 2-ball concept. Why is this a preferred option?


In some instances 36 holes are played, so it is not about lack of time...

[Tom_Doak]

I embrace all things Scotland golf, except the 2-ball concept. Why is this a preferred option?

Because it's faster!


There are actually zero clubs I know of, outside the UK, which state a preference for two-ball play, and only a handful in the UK for that matter.  But I would be very happy if the course I played near my home had a two-ball preference.  If you want to play with three friends, you just have to play foursomes.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tom,


I actually think Scottish like match play would make play faster if played in America.  Love it that they just pick up when they have no reasonable chance to win the hole, rather than trudging through to a unnecessary 7, wasting time and frustration.  Not to mention, matches can end well before 18 holes, one way to get done in under 4 hours.

[Daryl David]

I love the two ball clubs. Always seek them out when traveling and playing in the U.K. The courses that only allow two ball in the mornings seem to be faster throughout the day with less backups. When I have brought groups over the pond, I have encountered reactions of disbelief when they find out we need to play two ball or foursomes.  One of my players even wondered how it could be legal!

[Kalen Braley]

Of course its faster, and i'm guessing even quicker than a 2 some in most cases if the 2 non hitter are already off walking....

But seems like comparing this to a 4 ball is apples and oranges.  Its like saying a 6 inning baseball game is quicker than a 9 inning game...

And its nothing against the format, this makes perfect sense if you're a member and played the course countless times and looking for a spiritied team game.  But what if CPC or ANGC were mandatory 2 ball and as a once in a lifetime play you couldn't get in every delicious tee shot, approach shot or putt?

[Daryl David]

Of course its faster, and i'm guessing even quicker than a 2 some in most cases if the 2 non hitter are already off walking....

But seems like comparing this to a 4 ball is apples and oranges.  Its like saying a 6 inning baseball game is quicker than a 9 inning game...

And its nothing against the format, this makes perfect sense if you're a member and played the course countless times and looking for a spiritied team game.  But what if CPC or ANGC were mandatory 2 ball and as a once in a lifetime play you couldn't get in every delicious tee shot, approach shot or putt?

Being a two ball club doesn’t mean they require foursomes play. If you want to hit every delicious tee shot, approach shot or putt, just play in twosomes. I’ve probably played 50 rounds at two ball clubs in England and only played foursomes a handful of times.

[Sean_A]

I am convinced that in the UK at least, when pace of play issues come up that we are invariably comparing modern 4ball play with past time 2ball and 4somes play.

As I grow older I prefer 2ball more and more because its faster and much less time is spent looking for golf balls.  The tougher the course the more reason to play 2ball.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I am convinced that in the UK at least, when pace of play issues come up that we are invariably comparing modern 4ball play with past time 2ball and 4somes play.

As I grow older I prefer 2ball more and more because its faster and much less time is spent looking for golf balls.  The tougher the course the more reason to play 2ball.

Ciao

I actively try and avoid 4-ball rounds. I find them very wearisome.


Singles match play is a great thing at good clubs. You often play against people you only half know and have a learnt a lot more about by the the time you’ve nipped round 18 and enjoyed dinner together.

[Ben Stephens]

Its quite the norm to play a round under 3 hours at Brancaster when the course is quiet. I have played numerous rounds there and it feels like being transported back into time and playing golf as it should be


The former secretary of Luffenham Heath Tim Stephens is now the secretary at Brancaster.


The clubhouse experience is so unique in the UK - the lounge area downstairs has a great high ceiling, old fashioned armchairs, lockers for golf clubs, great golf books and a bar what more can you ask for.


Boy I need to go back there ASAP and happy to organise a Hunstanton/Brancaster combo and stay in a B+B if GCAers are interested

I embrace all things Scotland golf, except the 2-ball concept. Why is this a preferred option?

Because it's faster!


There are actually zero clubs I know of, outside the UK, which state a preference for two-ball play, and only a handful in the UK for that matter.  But I would be very happy if the course I played near my home had a two-ball preference.  If you want to play with three friends, you just have to play foursomes.

[Matt Dawson]

Not sure if Rye is dog-friendly though?

That made me smile

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