Mountain Lake

[Ted Sturges]

I have never had the pleasure of seeing Mountain Lake, and I'm headed there in two weeks.  I'd love to hear comments from others as to how this course compares to other Raynors.  And if anyone has pictures to post, that would be great as well.  I could not find anything when I typed Mountain Lake into the GCA.com search function.  Looking forward to anything one might share.


TS

[Mike Sweeney]

Ted,


The pictures need to be updated and I think page 3 got lost in a technology update, but this should give you a good start:


http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/mike-sweeney-blending-old-and-new-in-renovating-a-classic/


I am "out of the rotation" now of Central Florida golf, so please report back.


One more of son #1 on #9:

[Joe Bausch]

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainLake/

[Mike Sweeney]

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainLake/

Joe,


What is the date on your photo essay? I think my photos were two seasons - before and after the 2005 summer hurricane season.


Beyond the obvious improvements is camera technology, the Drone/Satellite Aerials add such a great perspective (sorry Jaka!!). The bunkers in the aerial shots are amazingly rectangular. On the ground, they clearly have sharp edges, but they do not look like rectangles of sand. Thanks for posting.

[Joe Bausch]

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainLake/

Joe,


What is the date on your photo essay? I think my photos were two seasons - before and after the 2005 summer hurricane season.


Beyond the obvious improvements is camera technology, the Drone/Satellite Aerials add such a great perspective (sorry Jaka!!). The bunkers in the aerial shots are amazingly rectangular. On the ground, they clearly have sharp edges, but they do not look like rectangles of sand. Thanks for posting.

January 2013.

[Ted Sturges]

Thanks for all the great pics guys!  Can't wait to see it.


TS

[Tim Passalacqua]

Hey Ted,


I think Mountain Lake will give you exactly what you would expect from Mr. Raynor.  I have only played a few Raynor's, but I have always had the same impression.  Amazing fairway bunkering, plenty of width, some of the best green contours, and perfect green to tee transfers.  The terrain actually reminds me of Yeamans.  A gentle rolling property.  Nothing extreme, just pleasant.  I think Tyler Rae, Ran's interview of the month, has been working there the last few years.  Bunker work, softening some edges, and restoring some sandy native areas.  To add to the wonderful course, you will be at the Colony House!  It's even sweeter knowing that you are playing a Raynor in shorts while most of the country is freezing!  Have fun!

[Joe Leenheer]

You shan't be disappointed.


The club has a fantastic overall vibe.  The course is superb. Likely the easiest walk for a course with "mountain" in the name if you are permitted/prefer. The Redan is top notch as well as the full Biarritz.   


The pro shop is dangerous.....as usual set your budget and then act shocked when you spend double it. 

[Ted Sturges]

In looking at the photos, especially the aerial ones, it looks like several of the bunkers have been squared-off.  I've played 9 or 10 Raynors and I've seen the square greens, but not squared-off bunkers.  Didn't Silva and Pritchard do the renovation there?  Is the bunker squaring something they editorialized, or were there old photos of Mountain Lake with bunkers that looked like that? 


TS

[Tim Passalacqua]

In looking at the photos, especially the aerial ones, it looks like several of the bunkers have been squared-off.  I've played 9 or 10 Raynors and I've seen the square greens, but not squared-off bunkers.  Didn't Silva and Pritchard do the renovation there?  Is the bunker squaring something they editorialized, or were there old photos of Mountain Lake with bunkers that looked like that? 


TS

Silva did the renovation and there were quite a few squared off bunkers.  From what I have seen, it looks like Tyler Rae has changed/softened the bunkers to look a little more like a traditional Raynor.  I have never seen the old aerial or photos they might reference.  I am curious about the change.  Although Silva put some hard edges out there, his renovation got so many people excited about Mountain Lake and the architect junkies swooning about the place. 

[Mike Sweeney]

I have never seen the old aerial or photos they might reference.  I am curious about the change.  Although Silva put some hard edges out there, his renovation got so many people excited about Mountain Lake and the architect junkies swooning about the place.

There are some old photos of #8 and an aerial on this page:


http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/mike-sweeney-blending-old-and-new-in-renovating-a-classic/


but I think the word "editorialized" is a good word. I always liked Brian Silva's work, but there is a reason that Ron Prichard was brought in later.


Nobody asked me!!

[Jeff Shelman]

Mountain Lake is such a treat. It's just a fun, fun day.


The cool double plateau green right out of the gate, the way things go from green to bunker very quickly, the biarritz, the cool thumbprint in the short green, the wicket redan, the overall vibe of the place.


Have fun. You'll have a great day.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Having driven through Lake Wales recently it amazes me how world class clubs and enclaves can be in the most modest of areas, and how these places popped up purely based on the availability of train tracks. I drove by the entrance and unsuccessfully tried to get past the guard gate, but it was like coming upon an oasis in the desert. Not a place you'd assume a wealthy person would look at a map of Florida and say "lets winter here!"

If you have time Ted, try to squeeze in a round at Lake Wales CC. Some really good holes, especially on the back 9. They promote the Donald Ross heritage, though it appears from this site there is evidence its actually a Raynor.

[Kyle Harris]

Having driven through Lake Wales recently it amazes me how world class clubs and enclaves can be in the most modest of areas, and how these places popped up purely based on the availability of train tracks. I drove by the entrance and unsuccessfully tried to get past the guard gate, but it was like coming upon an oasis in the desert. Not a place you'd assume a wealthy person would look at a map of Florida and say "lets winter here!"

If you have time Ted, try to squeeze in a round at Lake Wales CC. Some really good holes, especially on the back 9. They promote the Donald Ross heritage, though it appears from this site there is evidence its actually a Raynor.

Lake Wales CC is a Raynor. Rather run-down and worked over. Ross was never there.


It is important to note that when Mountain Lake was developed (and later Highland Park and Lake Wales CC) Polk County, FL was the wealthiest county in the United States.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Having driven through Lake Wales recently it amazes me how world class clubs and enclaves can be in the most modest of areas, and how these places popped up purely based on the availability of train tracks. I drove by the entrance and unsuccessfully tried to get past the guard gate, but it was like coming upon an oasis in the desert. Not a place you'd assume a wealthy person would look at a map of Florida and say "lets winter here!"

If you have time Ted, try to squeeze in a round at Lake Wales CC. Some really good holes, especially on the back 9. They promote the Donald Ross heritage, though it appears from this site there is evidence its actually a Raynor.

Lake Wales CC is a Raynor. Rather run-down and worked over. Ross was never there.


It is important to note that when Mountain Lake was developed (and later Highland Park and Lake Wales CC) Polk County, FL was the wealthiest county in the United States.

I thought it was pretty decent for $40.

What made Polk wealthy? Citrus?

[Matt MacIver]

Wintering Northerns from NYC, Newport, Boston, etc. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Wintering Northerns from NYC, Newport, Boston, etc.

Yes Mountain Lake was "the place" in the 1915-29 era, but in order to open in those days, you needed a train. In order to get a train, you needed natural resources, and Polk County had Citrus and Phosphate:


https://www.polk-county.net/about-polk-county


The county’s first courthouse was constructed in 1867 in Bartow on land donated by cattle baron Jacob Summerlin. By the 1880s, the development of various industries, including citrus, cattle, and phosphate, and the arrival of the railroad caused a boom in land prices.


Then came Mountain Lake which pulled in Edward Bok types - https://boktowergardens.org/tower-gardens/our-history/edward-bok/


However, when you go to the Wayne Stiles designed Highland Park (now called Highland Florida GC - http://www.highlandflgolf.com/contact/), it is the cautionary tale of "missing the window". Mountain Lake had enough members to survive the Crash of '29. Highland Park did not, and you see today a weird mix of majestic homes from the 1920's right next to a Florida condo style home:s. Below is Highland Park's version, I think, of its "Colony House", which has been staged for sale:

https://www.theledger.com/photogallery/LK/20190215/NEWS/215009990/PH/1

[Bret Lawrence]

Does anyone know what hole this is?  This photograph was published in a 1919 pamphlet promoting Mountain Lake.  At the time only 9 holes were open for play.  The publication shows pictures of the 1st, the original 4th, the 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th greens in addition to this hole:





Here is a link to the brochure, you may need to click the arrow icons on top of the page to scroll through the pages.


https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uva.x000997933

[Mike Sweeney]

Pretty good guess that is the 15th Punchbowl:



http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainLake/index9.html?


Update - The course played today's 1-6 and 16, 17, and 18 as the original 9 holes, so I am not sure about the above thought. And Kyle confirmed my question.

[Kyle Harris]

Mike and Bret,


Yes, but that's odd since I believe the firsr nine consisted of 1-6, 16-18. It would make sense only of the first version of 6 played into the bowl?

[Bret Lawrence]

Mike and Kyle,


I linked to the 1919 brochure below the photograph.  In the brochure they identify the 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th greens and none of these look like the Punchbowl.  They also show pictures of the 1919-7th and 9th greens which would be today's 16 and 18.  Again, these greens did not look like Punchbowls.  By process of elimination this green pictured had to be either the 2nd, 3rd or 8th (today's 17th hole).


Is it possible this was the original 3rd green?


Bret

[Ken Fry]

The position of the water makes me think this may be the original 17th green.  The current Eden form 17th now has the green moved about 40 yards to the left of where the original green played.  None of the other holes (the current 1-6 and 16-18) would make sense with water down the entire left side.
Ken

[Kyle Harris]

The Punchbowl in that iteration would have been a Par-3 then.

[Sven Nilsen]

April 1917 Golf Illustrated notes the punchbowl green was on the 2nd hole.

[Bret Lawrence]

Thank you Sven.