News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« on: February 27, 2019, 01:18:40 PM »
 … under Courses by Country and Architecture Timeline. Here is the link:
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/white-bear-yacht-club/

Formulating an opinion on a course happens quickly - as you walk off the 18th green, you invariably have one. When you stood on the first tee a few hours earlier, the deliberation had already begun. Some people don’t seem to need that much time - I recall Tommy N praising Friars Head two years before it opened!  ;D I don't know about you, but a second ‘bite of the apple’ very much helps to confirm and solidify things in my own mind.

I first played White Bear Yacht Club in 2017 on a spectacular fall day, the kind on which only the dreariest soul wouldn't succumb to its charms. The heaving landforms, paucity of outside intrusions, relaxed atmosphere augmented by the yummy 'F Scott approved' bootlegger drink all ticked important boxes. My fondness for ~6,500 yard courses had me especially keen for a return visit.  Happily, that occurred at our GCA gathering last August. Despite a bitter loss to Ted 'the Braying Donkey' Sturges, my admiration for the course only grew, despite bland lighting (and hence Jon Cavalier rides to the rescue again with a great crop of pictures - thank you, Jon!).

The question, as always, is why and pondering why certain courses resonate more than others is a life-long passion. Like most things that get 'under your skin', the reason that White Bear Yacht Club shines is because ... it is different. Consulting architect Jim Urbina draws a comparison to another absolute favorite, Eastward Ho!, but I can't think of many clay based courses blessed with such relentless topsy-turvy landforms. :o

As we state, ad infinitum, in the profile: the land makes the course. Since the land is so unique, so is the course. People go round and round trying to assign credit for who did what with the main protagonists being William Watson and Donald Ross. Personally, I think Watson deserves the lion’s share since the routing seems most likely his. Here, the routing over the exceptional landforms is far more important than well-placed bunkers. The putting surfaces finish off the holes with great aplomb, whether they occupy a high spot (7 and 10), a plateau (3), sit over the crest of a rise (12), benched into the side of a hill (8 ) or snuggle in a fold (5). The location of the greens both mimic and accent the broader land movement. It was this quality and variety of the green sites that especially impressed on my return.

Lots of people these days can build uber attractive bunkers. You see them on every course and I can’t recall a picture in a golf magazine where an impressive bunker wasn’t staring back. And though WBYC has them, that’s not what it is about. It’s the rarest form of golf architecture: ideal golf landforms perfectly encapsulated into the playing strategy by an architect(s) that could also finish off holes with great greens.  The abilities to route holes and build great greens are the two most elusive attributes for an architect to possess. The people that worked on WBYC possessed them and thank goodness as the stakes were quite high given how rare it is to find land of such exception. Put another way, the heart breaks at the thought of less talented people squandering such superb land. Plus, give the club credit for recognizing what they possessed and not messing/cluttering it up over the past century. As consulting architect, Jim Urbina’s ‘less is more’ approach dovetails perfectly with the club’s ethos.

Recently, we have profiled three special, inland Golden Age designs in North America - Somerset Hills, Sleepy Hollow and now, White Bear. These clubs have peeled back tree growth to allow the properties and architecture to shine. I don't know what profile will follow but it feels like it will be downhill from here as these three are at the very high end of parkland golf. 

Best,
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 03:23:47 PM by Ran Morrissett »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 03:16:58 PM »
Is the 12th hole really the most highly regarded hole on the course?  It sure wasn't when we first saw the place.  The fairway was narrower, the greens not so fast, and I honestly don't think many of the members had figured out how the approach should be played.  Amazing what a good write-up can do, I guess!


One correction, to your story about the 8th:  I had walked the course the week I spoke at a Minnesota Turf Show in the early 90's, and was happy to get called back when they wanted to fix the 8th, a couple of years later.   But the assignment was not to restore the original green, which was apparently guarded by a blind hump in front.  [It must have been pretty big, to make the hole blind when you are hitting down to it from well above.]  We couldn't get any definition of what it had been like from the old aerial photos they had, and the green committee were not keen to restore a blind par-3, even if we had known what to do. 


Instead, we built a "Ross-like" green of similar shape to the one they had created in the 1960's, with a bit of mounding in the back, and being careful to reduce the 5% back-right-to front-left tilt which had caused them to seek help.  [It was rare for a tee shot to stay on the green unless it was wet.]


It is funny to see how some of these old places keep evolving.  When we started consulting at WBYC, putting back such a feature or taking out trees was impossible for them to consider, just like rebuilding the greens at Yeamans Hall for $3,000 each  :o  was a stretch.  There is no way such clubs would have considered the multi-million-dollar renovations that are all the rage today.  And the truth is, they really didn't need that much work . . . but even the work they did need was something you had to pursue slowly, over several years as their learning curve allowed.

WBYC reminds me most of Crystal Downs, and that's obviously a strong recommendation coming from me.

David Wuthrich

Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 04:01:49 PM »

Ran,
As always, great recap of a wonderful course.  Brings back great memories!
Also thanks to Jon for the spectacular photographs.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 05:23:23 PM »
Very nice.
The roly-poly rollercoaster type of terrain in the photos kind of reminds me of Gleneagles (although with more trees instead of gorse and heather and some trees).
Atb

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 05:53:39 AM »
That looks fabulous. It was always on the radar but Jon's pics and Ran's review raise the interest. It looks like Rutland CC (Vermont) in many spots, thanks for posting/reviewing.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 10:53:34 AM »
For obvious reasons I was very excited for this profile to be posted!

Many thanks to both Ran for his terrific write up as well as Jon for allowing us to use his photos of the course.

I first played White Bear with Ran late in the season in 2017. A few weeks prior we spoke and Ran inquired about the weather in mid-to-late October in Minnesota. I said, "well, it'll either be 70* and beautiful or it'll be snowing."  ;D

Thankfully, the day Ran joined us for his first play was just about as perfect of a fall weather day as you could ask for. The sun was shining and the leaves were at their peak color. After our round, Ran said many very nice things about the golf course which was appreciated but for someone who has seen so many I wondered if he was being a kind guest to his host.  8)

However, the next year Ran was nice enough to visit again as part of the pre-Midwest Mashie festivities. As Ran addressed our group and reiterated and expanded on many of his thoughts on the course I realized his great admiration for the course was very genuine.

What the membership at White Bear lack in size is more than made up for in its pride in their golf course. Members and the Staff lead by Chris Nathlich truly enjoy showing people around the humps and rolls on the shores of White Bear Lake. It's special to have someone of Ran's knowledge and love of the game admire and appreciate the golf course in the same way the membership does. However, Ran has the ability to put that admiration into words much better than most of us members!
H.P.S.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 10:59:48 AM »
Is the 12th hole really the most highly regarded hole on the course?  It sure wasn't when we first saw the place.  The fairway was narrower, the greens not so fast, and I honestly don't think many of the members had figured out how the approach should be played.  Amazing what a good write-up can do, I guess!

Tom,

Well, your write up & drawing of the course from the Confidential Guide is framed and hung just outside the pro shop. So I suppose the secret is out! I don't know if it's the most regarded, but I know a lot of people who have it as their favorite hole on the course. This past winter the trees behind the green were removed, exposing a long view of the lake behind the green and should make for a (reverse?) "skyline" feel to the approach.

WBYC reminds me most of Crystal Downs, and that's obviously a strong recommendation coming from me.

Very kind words and a strong recommendation, indeed.
H.P.S.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 12:05:21 PM »
Another enjoyable profile of a well-deserving course. Ran's mention of Royal Hague and Eastward Ho! is a good one. The land at these places had to yield a great course - assuming the right person(s) worked on it.


Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 09:31:06 PM »
Wow, just wow.  Great Ran/JCava combo intro. I hope my shoulder holds up this summer because I’ll be headed up north. Couldn’t do it last year.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2019, 10:15:27 PM »
Happy to be a small part of this terrific write-up of a well-deserving course and a personal favorite. WBYC truly is a special place.
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 11:01:20 AM »
"luscious and heaving."...

When I read that, I wasn't sure if Ran had got his review of WBYC confused with his impressions of the latest Scarlett Johansson movie (substitute Jane Russell for all you senior GCA members).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:55:40 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2019, 03:22:59 PM »
Ran,


A very nice write up, on a golf course well deserving of such praise.  I did mean what I said when I referred to John Steiner the golf course superintendent having an original copy of a George C Thomas book on his shelves, John understands the value of Golden Age design as well as the value of pre-germination of seeds, just a wealth of knowledge.


I could listen to John all day long.


Now back to the cough drops.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 10:05:57 AM »
Ran,


A very nice write up, on a golf course well deserving of such praise.  I did mean what I said when I referred to John Steiner the golf course superintendent having an original copy of a George C Thomas book on his shelves, John understands the value of Golden Age design as well as the value of pre-germination of seeds, just a wealth of knowledge.


I could listen to John all day long.


Now back to the cough drops.


Jim,


Thanks for mentioning Mr. Steiner. At a place like WBYC which tends to move at its own deliberate pace, a steward such as Mr. Steiner as superintendent is invaluable to make sure the ship is always pointed in the right direction.
H.P.S.

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 05:46:44 AM »
Nice write up Ran - Minnesota bound, one day, happy there are still courses to add to the empty bucket list.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 09:28:28 PM »
I have played WBYC only once. It is just brilliant. The way the holes are cut into the terrain is just superior. It reminds me of Prestbury in England and some of the other English parkland courses. I don't think anyone could tire of playing it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 06:34:03 AM »
Photos to relive a great round at the Midwest Mashie. Thanks. Having never been to MN before I was blown away by the topography at WBYC and Northland.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Brian Ross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
Great review, Ran. WBYC is really special. By the time you reach your ball in the first fairway you know you're in for a treat and it certainly doesn't disappoint after that.
Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.

http://www.rossgolfarchitects.com

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2019, 12:21:44 PM »
Well, after a week or so, I am certainly surprised no one has brought up the Watson/Ross theories given that every other time the course comes up on here it seems to be the hot topic?!

As I've read and re-read Ran's profile, there are a number of quotes that make me go  :o and feel very lucky to be able to call it my home course

A few of my favorite quotes comments are as follows.

On the 1st:
Quote
If there are ten better opening holes in golf, the author hasn't seen them.

On the 2nd:
Quote
Is the author implying that White Bear Yacht Club approaches the ideal member's course? Absolutely.

While discussing the land at the 13th:
Quote
So many architects these days are adept at building handsome, rugged bunkers that modern courses are starting to look too much alike. Here the land is so singular that it never blurs with another course.

And on the 14th tee:
Quote
Standing on this tee in a corner of the property, the author was sure that a weak patch would emerge. Instead, three of the best driving holes on the course ensued, each capped by one of the course's finest greens.

Although I disagree with Ran that the 18th hole is the worst hole...
H.P.S.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 04:34:20 PM »
Great review and really has piqued my interest to heading up to Minnesota for one of the 4 months of their golf season.   ;)
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 06:56:01 PM »
Great review and really has piqued my interest to heading up to Minnesota for one of the 4 months of their golf season.   ;)


With a course this seductive, four months seems bountiful.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 01:07:05 AM »
Great review and really has piqued my interest to heading up to Minnesota for one of the 4 months of their golf season.   ;)


With a course this seductive, four months seems bountiful.
True. 

Quick question what months are mosquitoes bad up in Minnesota? I was there about 10 years ago in July and they seemed to be everywhere and that was close to M/StP.  I have to think just you just live with them, like in Chicago area in the summer.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2019, 11:41:00 AM »
Great review and really has piqued my interest to heading up to Minnesota for one of the 4 months of their golf season.   ;)


With a course this seductive, four months seems bountiful.
True. 

Quick question what months are mosquitoes bad up in Minnesota? I was there about 10 years ago in July and they seemed to be everywhere and that was close to M/StP.  I have to think just you just live with them, like in Chicago area in the summer.


Our golf season is really six months long. We are almost always playing by mid- to late-April (though this year seems dicey), and those of us who don't mind a little cold will play until early November -- later, if we're blessed with a warm fall.


When are mosquitoes the worst? It's more a question of where. You can get mosquitoes anytime from late May through early September, but they're really not a factor unless you're playing a densely wooded course near wetlands. You're also more likely to encounter them at sunrise and sunset; they don't like mid-day sun.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2019, 04:18:30 PM »
Did you know the State Bird of Minnesota is the Mosquito?  ;D


There are no shortage of the little guys on and around White Bear in the summer months. As Rick says they are worst in the morning (when I run my dog) and in the evening.


Many Minnesotans crave the nice fall days after the first hard freeze. Great weather, no bugs.


Certainly no reason to cancel a trip, however.
H.P.S.

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2019, 12:40:08 PM »
I've been waiting for this review for a long time. I've had the good fortune of playing WBYC twice now, and it gets better with each play. Incredible land. A great routing with so many good holes. I really like the stretch from 12-17, and the tree cleaning is making it even better. Heck, 1-17 is pretty special. While my experience with great courses is still fairly limited, it's still my favorite golf course I've played, and it's going to take something special to top it.

That 18th hole though...

Although I disagree with Ran that the 18th hole is the worst hole...

Penny for your thoughts; which one is your least favorite then?

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: White Bear Yacht Club profile posted
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2019, 06:36:49 PM »
That 18th hole though...

Although I disagree with Ran that the 18th hole is the worst hole...

Penny for your thoughts; which one is your least favorite then?


#17...


A pretty hole. But to me very one dimensional. It's just a mid-to-long iron to a small, somewhat flat green.


To me, the tee shot on #18 is terrific. I love the blind tee shot over the hill and the view from the top of the clubhouse and lake is one of my favorite on the course. After a wild ride it's nice to finish with a wedge and a birdie opportunity on the last hole. Of course I'm sure the original green surface was probably much more interesting with surrounding bunkers (as opposed to the water bunker).
H.P.S.