How slow can they go?

[Ian Mackenzie]

These pampered pros are on their way to killing their own golden goose just like musicians did with CDs...;-) (Actors are next...;-)


Their cash-cow is getting squeezed on all fronts.
Most markets have the inevitable nasty habit of eliminating inefficiencies. When the corporate $ start drying up and the courtesy cars get downgraded with the lunch buffets, these guys will pick up the pace.

Until then....ugh.


It's not like these pros have a ton of other options, right?
The PGA tour and USGA need to wake up.


Remember when tennis was on prime time Sundays? Yeah, me either...;-)

[John Kavanaugh]

Who is getting harmed by the slow play on tour? Are you that desperate for the start of 60 minutes? Once you resign yourself to sit in front of a TV you have sold your soul to the God of boredom.


In all honesty I don't understand what you want. Golf to be over at 4, or golf to start at 3? Isn't it better to know that on a Sunday afternoon that no matter what your schedule Golf on TV will be there for you.

[Brock Lynch]

CBS needs 5.5 hour plus rounds so they can get all of those wonderful adds in. We're all suckers!


Cheers

[Ian Mackenzie]

Who is getting harmed by the slow play on tour? Are you that desperate for the start of 60 minutes? Once you resign yourself to sit in front of a TV you have sold your soul to the God of boredom.


In all honesty I don't understand what you want. Golf to be over at 4, or golf to start at 3? Isn't it better to know that on a Sunday afternoon that no matter what your schedule Golf on TV will be there for you.

It's a trickle-down.


Your aversion to efficient playing time is well documented here and if that works for you and your partners, then great.


However, for the rest of the world that may seek to do other things than watch people plum-bob (live or on TV), let's get on with it. If you dont have anything else to do, then that's cool.


But, that MISSES the reality changes of the younger demographics and thus your aging views may actually threaten the game more than you think.


"Welcome MR and MRS New Prospective Member" to Lazy River Golf course. (Muni, semi, private...I dont care.)
"Here at LRCC, we believe in taking your sweet-ass time to play golf as we dont think you have anything better to do than to follow a bunch of gray-haired fossils while they plum-bob their bogie putts from 8'."


"Honey, what did you think of Mr. Kavo's description?"
"Lets get the F out of here ASAP."
"Good idea."

[John Kavanaugh]

You lost me at welcome Mr and Mrs.

[John Kavanaugh]

I do think it is fair to say that golfers emulate their heroes. Saying that, it's not the older established players who are the problem. Golf was fine until we started dying.

[Peter Pallotta]

The Warriors race down the floor off the rebound.
There's a quick screen, Steph Curry gets clear just behind the three point line, and in a heartbeat the ball is in his hands. He steps up...
And stops.
The other players stop too.
They all just stand there, staring at him.
The crowd is suddenly hushed; you can hear a pin drop.
Steph dribbles for a bit, then palms the ball and holds it to his side.
Everyone is very quiet and still.
Steph adjusts his jersey.
He stares at the basket, then closes his eyes to better visualize.
He adjusts his jersey again.
He dribbles - once, twice, three times.
It's his pre shot routine, honed down to a science.
He takes one last look at the basket.
The other players get up on their toes.
Steph brings the ball up and back and launches his three pointer.
The ball hits the rim, and bounces off.
The Lakers grab the rebound and race down the floor.
There's a pick and roll and Lebron gets the ball in his hands.
He stops...

[Ian Mackenzie]

The Warriors race down the floor off the rebound.
There's a quick screen, Steph Curry gets clear just behind the three point line, and in a heartbeat the ball is in his hands. He steps up...
And stops.
The other players stop too.
They all just stand there, staring at him.
The crowd is suddenly hushed; you can hear a pin drop.
Steph dribbles for a bit, then palms the ball and holds it to his side.
Everyone is very quiet and still.
Steph adjusts his jersey.
He stares at the basket, then closes his eyes to better visualize.
He adjusts his jersey again.
He dribbles - once, twice, three times.
It's his pre shot routine, honed down to a science.
He takes one last look at the basket.
The other players get up on their toes.
Steph brings the ball up and back and launches his three pointer.
The ball hits the rim, and bounces off.
The Lakers grab the rebound and race down the floor.
There's a pick and roll and Lebron gets the ball in his hands.
He stops...

Exactly!
Meanwhile, the TV viewers have switched the channel. Worse, the kids have queued up a streaming service that shows golf highlights with the routines and machinations removed...(just a thought)


SHOT CLOCK.
Then stroke penalties.
Then fines.


Everyone plays in the same conditions.
Adam and Webb lost their anchor putters. They adapted.


Give them a range finder and a 4 hour time limit!

[John Kavanaugh]

Nice to learn that the NBA isn't boring. If I forget wake me up at the start of the fourth quarter.

[James Brown]

I'm just curious. How many of you have played high-level competitive golf (D1 college, top am, top mid-am)?

I'd never call my game "high-level"...but I gave up my amateur status back in 2006.


Uncertain that ones ability should change ones perspective on pace of play.  The problem with pace is you only care about it when it's not your fault (or your just an arse).  I've been the slow one before (albeit it was likely due to train wreck of a hole and me trying to "keep it together") and I've been with the slow one who steps off 50 yard pitch shots and waits for the right wind.


Either way, without a physical clock and clear penalty, I don't see this problem coming to an end.

My point is not to advocate for slow play. I hate slow play as a reasonably fast player myself. But, as a fast player, it's amazing how a tournament changes things. The allotted time seems to go by much faster to me. In an ordinary round of golf, any thing not less than 4 hours seems like an eternity to me. But, four hours seems to go by pretty quick for a threesome in a tournament. You have played in those tournaments, but for those that haven't, it's not the same as a round with your buddies on the weekend.


Again, I'm not excusing slow play like that of J.B. Holmes. But, the whole - I can't believe it took a threesome 4 something hours to play on Tour - comes from not having played tournament golf. This weekend you needed to factor in the weather (rain will slow you down), the wind (that slows you down more), the wind on fast greens when you have to putt everything out (further slowing), and general tiredness/weariness from the non-stop golf for three days.

Or we could all stop excusing slow play.  We can play faster in competition.  The state golf associations are doing a pretty good job speeding up play. 


The PGA Tour apparently just doesn’t care enough and doesn’t have the political will to change the status quo.  The best players in the world get away with it because they can.  The “I’m playing for my livelihood” defense is given a pass because nobody imposes a standard for pace of play.  Most other sports have a shot clock and penalties that affect the outcome of the game,  Golf should to. 

[Sean_A]

The Warriors race down the floor off the rebound.
There's a quick screen, Steph Curry gets clear just behind the three point line, and in a heartbeat the ball is in his hands. He steps up...
And stops.
The other players stop too.
They all just stand there, staring at him.
The crowd is suddenly hushed; you can hear a pin drop.
Steph dribbles for a bit, then palms the ball and holds it to his side.
Everyone is very quiet and still.
Steph adjusts his jersey.
He stares at the basket, then closes his eyes to better visualize.
He adjusts his jersey again.
He dribbles - once, twice, three times.
It's his pre shot routine, honed down to a science.
He takes one last look at the basket.
The other players get up on their toes.
Steph brings the ball up and back and launches his three pointer.
The ball hits the rim, and bounces off.
The Lakers grab the rebound and race down the floor.
There's a pick and roll and Lebron gets the ball in his hands.
He stops...

Exactly!
Meanwhile, the TV viewers have switched the channel. Worse, the kids have queued up a streaming service that shows golf highlights with the routines and machinations removed...(just a thought)

SHOT CLOCK.
Then stroke penalties.
Then fines.

Everyone plays in the same conditions.
Adam and Webb lost their anchor putters. They adapted.

Give them a range finder and a 4 hour time limit!

Or, don't bother watching golf on tv.  One of the best things about living in the UK is that golf is not free on tv.  I don't know how long it would have taken for me to switch off if it wasn't done for me.  I can't even be bothered to follow golf when I happen by a SKY laden tv.  Watching golf has to be just about the worst sport on tv...darts is more interesting. Its not just golf though...practically all televised US sports take forever to finish a game...its unwatchable live.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I have to agree that the slow rounds are killing the game.  I used to watch far more tournaments, but now its mostly just the West Coast swing, cause its winter time and I'm a West coast guy... but only the big tournaments the rest of the year.


As much as I love the AT&T, I just couldn't understand how they were complaining after the weather delays that the final group would ONLY have 5-5.5 hours to complete their round.  And sure enough 5 hours later they were teeing off on 15, just insane...

[Jim Nugent]

Curious if this issue has grown worse over the years...does anyone know how long it took Jacklin & Trevino to play the final round of The Open at Muirfield in 1972?

Cary Middlecoff was (in)famous back in the 1950s for his slow play.  In one of the Open Championships back then, lots of players complained about him.  They were playing threesomes, IIRC, and Cary's group took about 3 1/2 hours to finish the round. 

The shot clock seems like an overnight solution.  Can some of you point out its downside? 

[Peter Pallotta]

Nice to learn that the NBA isn't boring. If I forget wake me up at the start of the fourth quarter.

The point is: it's unseemly for so-called athletes and bordering on ridiculous for a so-called game/sport. Athletes can hit a 92 mph curveball with 40,000 screaming fans or shoot a 3 pointer with a 6'7" guard's hands waving in their face (or even drive a Dodge Charger at 200 mph at Talledega with 12 other cars bumping them for position) -- and yet a tour pro can't hit the same stock 7 iron or pitch shot over a  bunker or a 30 ft putt that you and I hit in 20 seconds in less than 2 minutes, in dead silence, with no one else vying for the ball? It's looking more and more like a sport/game for dysfunctional dandies & entitled entrepreneurs

[Kalen Braley]

Lets not forget tennis players and Bowlers who usually need silence as well.


I would agree, seems a bit arbitrary 

[MKrohn]

Good on you Matt Every, the photo makes a great point


http://thestiffshaft.com/2019/02/18/matt-every-has-the-answer-to-slow-play-pulls-up-a-chair-during-tournament/

[Jake Marvin]

I only listen to the Fried Egg occasionally, but Roberto Castro recently talked about slow play on tour during his episode and made some good points. Especially for Thursday and Friday rounds, the Tour doesn't help the issue much with the field size, among other things. At some point, you put so many people on the course that nobody can play fast, whether they're trying or not. It's worth a listen and some consideration.


Easy to blame the players, but the Tour has to do its part, even beyond enforcing a shot clock.

[Charles Lund]

There are shot clock rules in basketball and time rules for inbounds passes. 


I like the idea of an auditory cue being sounded a specifed time  after another player's shot is played when the subsequent player can safely be in position to play the next shot.  Then the player has a specified time to play the shot.  Each failure to meet criterion would be subject to a noe stroke penalty. 


They could do comparable procedures following a drop or on the green prior to putting. 


I could barely tolerate watching what was going on yesterday.  I believe Adam Scott was adversely impacted.  Rule 1 speaks to standards for player conduct.  Excessively long preshot routines and overly elaborate preparation impacts the routines of other players and disrupts their play.


Charles Lund

Snip


Maybe the tour could add a time clock to each player's bag that is triggered by a trained official when he should be ready to play (40 seconds is way too long).  Pros and high-level amateurs just take too long to hit shots.  And too many of us mimic these players without any chance of achieving their results.

[Craig Sweet]

Nipple clamps and a twelve volt battery will solve the problem...

[Joe Zucker]

I think I've said it before, but it seems like a chess clock is the answer.  Give each player 20 or 30 minutes to hit all their shots for a round.  If they have a tough shot that requires two minutes of thinking, fine.  But then they will need to make up time on other shots. 


You could easily start the clock for a player when he approaches his ball or when a previous player has hit his shot.  Once your clock runs out, start adding penalty shots. I think this would be easier to implement and enforce than trying to have a 30 second clock on every shot.  Too often it would be a judgement call on whether the player got the shot off on time or questions of that nature.

[John Crowley]

Why would one watch golf real time?
I use my DVR, eliminate all commercials and make liberal use of the mute button. Only listen to the talking heads when there is obviously something truly interesting going on. Usually cut the time I sit in a chair from the 4-5 hour actual air time to about 1.5 hours.
Only exception is the final day of The Open or the Masters I may watch mostly real time. But usually with the sound muted. (Especially for Nance at the Masters.)

[Pat Burke]

IMO
The fix is to change the culture
Start with strong, enforced rules on Web.com tour and the Fall Finish series.
Make aggressive rules, and you have the platform to test them.
Happens in other minor league sports, different rules are tested.






Over a period of time, the turnover of players will have the appetite for it


Until then, we need more Chirkinian production.  Don’t show players playing with themselves.  Learn their routines, and put the camera on them when they are ready to pull the trigger. 
“Okay, camera three, Sergio has re gripped his club 5,6,7 times.....cut to Sergio on number 15”
They’ll be out there the same amount of time, but nobody needs to watch that

[archie_struthers]

 




wow if Dr Cary played in 3 1/2 hours I'm amazed. That would be impossible for many of today's players.


Slow play is the bane of golf maybe even more than the distance issue which doesn't effect most of us as much. The advent of swing coaches and guru's on your pre shot routine were the precursors to this new age emphasis on sloth. For golf operators its  drain and serious issue as rangers/ambassadors (lol) routinely get into trouble trying to move slow players along. I guess there are a few high powered PGA tour players who really don't give a shit about this issue.


Forget college and youth golf its really out of control. I really feel for the struggling public golf owner who needs to attract play to survive then gets a slug moving at the 5 hour pace in front of the  other players. Many times the answer to a request for a little help in moving out is taken as a personal affront and you need a really good communicator to get this situation resolved.


Anyone on board here who tends to hold up the parade try to think of the others next time you play . it takes group think to fix this issue. its also why it pays to join a club, as management and peers can influence the players just enough to help the cause.

[John Kavanaugh]

Who makes the rules? Members at private clubs. What drives people to join private clubs? Slow play.

[Jim Nugent]

Here's another blast from the past, this one from the 1953 US Open at Oakmont, about Ben Hogan's slow play...

". "I want to see what they do to Ben Hogan this
afternoon," said Clayton Heafner, one of an unhappy group of
players the USGA had put on the clock for slow play. "We played
in 3 1/2 hours.... It took Hogan 4 1/2 hours yesterday. I told
one official I was going out to clock Hogan this afternoon and
see how fast he played."