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Doug Siebert

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Death of your father and golf
« on: January 22, 2019, 06:52:39 PM »
I'm not writing this to elicit sympathy. I'm not sure why I'm writing it other than maybe partly because I just feel the need to tell the story of why my father was so important to my relationship to golf, and partly because I'm genuinely curious if my story resonates with others for whom the same is true. How did his passing affect you in the long run - do you still feel about golf as you once did or is it forever changed? If so, how?

I haven't been around here for some time - or played much golf at all for some time. Three rounds since late September 2017. That was the last time I played with my dad. The heart failure he'd been diagnosed with a few years earlier started to have real affect not long after that, he spent Christmas & New Year's in the hospital, landed back in the hospital shortly before Memorial Day and passed the day before the 4th of July.

I've played over half my rounds of golf in my life with my dad, and even in his last few years I probably played with him in close to 50% of my rounds. It still seems hard to believe I will never play with him again. He was weakened from age and lack of oxygen from his failing heart to the point where he was hitting driver from the front tees and still not able to reach some of the par 3s. If he found his ball on the far side of a big green with no way to drive his cart over there, he'd have me pick it up for him...it had probably been 3-4 years since he'd last holed out on all 18 holes. A long walk across the green and back again was enough to leave him winded.

Despite that, he still enjoyed playing. Or maybe enjoyed spending time with me, and watching me play. And I enjoyed playing with him, even though it was tinged by being forced to see his decline take place before my eyes, and every fall for the last few years wondering "will he still be able to play next year, was that the last round we'll ever play together?"

After his initial hospitalization over the holidays I knew for sure he had played his last round. I didn't realize how it would affect me, and has affected me since. I completely lost interest in golf, and while I hardly played (only doing so out of obligation to others) I didn't miss it at all. I wasn't thinking about golf, stopping visiting GCA, I didn't even watch the Open on TV and I'd never missed it since the first time I watched it: The Duel in the Sun.

My dad is the reason I play golf today. He's the reason I'm on this site. Though he wasn't an architecture aficionado by any means he visited Scotland and Ireland three times each - the last two times of each with me. Playing there is what opened my eyes. It was seeing the courses through his eyes and his game that did it. It would have been a lot harder to see through my game: a power player with a trajectory a mile high, and short game where the lob wedge was the solution just about every problem. He was a low ball hitter, and liked to keep it on the ground in the short game, a natural fit to the courses across the pond. He had to interact with the ground features I carried and didn't have to think about, and that fascinated me.

I knew his death would affect me, I think that's true for most people and their fathers with him they shared a good relationship. What I didn't realize is how it would affect my relationship to the game of golf. I'm starting to think about it again. Wouldn't say I'm "eager" to play but I can at least see myself doing so, which I couldn't say last summer. I wonder, is this something others have experienced, or did it affect you differently?
My hovercraft is full of eels.

David_Tepper

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 07:22:40 PM »
Doug S. -

I am very sorry to hear of your father's passing. My best to you and your family.

I cannot speak to the questions you raise personally, as my father was not a golfer. But, if you have never read James Dodson's book Final Rounds, you may want to do so at some point in the future. The book is about "a father, a son and the golf journey of a lifetime."

I hope you find some comfort in the book.

DT

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/james-dodson/final-rounds/
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 07:48:12 PM by David_Tepper »

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 07:25:50 PM »
Doug,


I am looking at this from the opposite side. My Dad did not play golf, as he was a boat guy which was our bond. I fell in love with golf in high school and my older son basically played "vacation golf" with me for years. Fast forward, he now loves the game, we are headed to Ireland this summer, and he moves to Florida in August for 18 months. I get a new winter golf pass from my wife for two winters :)

Your Dad sounds like a great guy, and golf will hopefully find its way back into your life.

Dylan & Mike @ Winged Foot Golf Club
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 08:29:48 PM »
Doug, my Dad was my hero for a lot or reasons. He died almost ten years ago and I still miss him. When I play a quick evening nine he is never far from my thoughts. When I was a kid we would play til dark, often only hitting a seven iron so we could hear it land. Two years before he died my son (Erik) from Minnesota and me from Maryland visited him in Michigan. Dad was going to baptize Erik's daughter. At lunch Dad said he wanted to play golf once more. Dad had a hard time with balance so I suggested we go to the local CC and use their practice tee. The club graciously allowed us to hit balls. The three of us spent about 45 minutes hitting and talking and laughing. It was the last time he hit a ball. I recorded the event and put it on YouTube so I can watch it from time to time.


It sounds like you and your Dad had a special relationship. The nice thing about memory is that you can hang onto those memories. My prayers are with you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL0DZAa9abM
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jim Hoak

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 09:39:36 PM »
I also don't know why I'm writing this.  I can't add much to your fine post.
But I have a similar story.
My father died in late May--just a month short of his 100th birthday.
He was an outstanding amateur golfer--was one of the best Big 10 golfers in college in the '30's, played 16 US Ams, 2 US Opens, some British Ams, US Senior Ams, etc.  Won many amateur events over his life.  Had a scratch or better handicap for 35+ years.  And kept playing golf till his late 90's when he went blind.  Even being blind, he would still critique the swings of my brothers and me!
Golf was his life--mixed with his business and his 3 sons. of which I was lucky to be one.  I'm not sure the order of his priorities, but he was always open for a golf game with me, my son--or almost anyone else.
I owe him a lot--maybe the most of which was him introducing me to golf, which has become a cornerstone of my life.
In another era he might have become a playing golf pro, but at age 23, Pearl Harbor happened.  Those 4 years in the South Pacific took a lot away from him.  But as with many of the Greatest Generation, his service to his country was never regretted.
I miss him every day.  Reporting to him my golf score, talking to him about golf on television which he would "watch," even though it was just the audio these past few years, giving him the golf progress of his grandchildren, etc.  His mind was clear till the end--and golf was always a topic of daily discussions.
When I think about the fortunes of my life, my dad and the game we all love will always be at the top.  We are truly the lucky ones!!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:41:14 PM by Jim Hoak »

Steve Lang

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 10:44:05 PM »
Doug,


A bit moved by your post, I wrote out mine...

My dad introduced me to golf when I was 9 years old, he was 40 and picking the game up again after a 2-kid hiatus, to play in a weekly league after work and develop a computer database for their statistics.   We’d go play on weekends at the 9 hole Collins Park course in east Toledo, and I got to play from like 50 yards out with a 9 iron and a putter lifted from my mom’s set to start…. Best of all was grabbing a Tony Packo’s chili dog afterwards. 

We also used to go over to the nearby Ottawa Park practice area with a shag bag in the evenings, and once I got a bit older, I caddied for him sometimes and got to play a couple holes, but soon decided mowing yards was easier to fund playing and my buds were a lot more fun.  Those experiences were formative, as were some rainy days rummaging around at local golf shops looking to buy some game.  I may have been bit by the golf bug, but I think it was contagious from my dad, so I got to spend many great hours with him, as my big brother wasn’t interested.

We’d play some on vacations through high school, which is where I learned you can always rent some clubs, no need to lug them around the country.  Over the years, as the annual outings shrank in number, his spirit never seemed to change, as the old stories got embellished a bit and I can still hear his laugh.  In his early 80’s, he lamented he was still the kid in his group, and had to keep track of the others, as they couldn’t see very well and routinely over-estimated their prowess on the scorecard and most distances. He took some course pictures for me at Ottawa Park one time after we talked about course design and it was interesting to see his perspective there and from his around the world travel pics.   


When he got to around 86, living in an apartment near us, he started loosing his balance, and transitioned to just riding along on a golf cart with me, getting out randomly to putt and try and take some swings, just to make contact.  One day he said: “can’t use the walker, not stable enough, maybe I can lean on the cart and swing the lucky 7.”  After a couple of tries and one success, he said, “ENOUGH!”  Never went out with me again, but kept watching golf on TV and always asked how the last round went, looking for the debriefing and visualizing images. He used to say: “Stevie, these golden years ain’t what they’re all cracked up to be!”  He passed away at 87, or as he liked to say, “approaching 88.” 

A little over 10 years now.  Still brings a tear when the memories invade.  Every day's a blessing, go play!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:50:39 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Doug Siebert

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 01:43:57 AM »
Thanks for sharing your memories.

Steve's mention of his dad being the youngest in his group reminds me of my dad. He was always the youngest in his regular group, the composition of which changed over the years as one moved and another died relatively young in his late 60s. I'd sometimes join them when they had space. I saw a different side of him with his group, needling and teasing each other like I do with my friends - something he rarely did in our family.

They always played a skins game, originally for a quarter, later they moved up to a whole 50 cents. I remember the arguments they had before they all agreed to take that step, which was funny because they were all university professors or businessman who were fairly well off. I never could understand, maybe it has something to do with growing up during the Depression and WWII when money was tight. My dad never let me forget that when he was a kid movies were 10 cents and you could get a huge chocolate bar for a nickel!

At some point they decided to let me in their game as a side bet - I'd play off the back tees and play my ball against the best of their three. It was terrible odds, I was very long but often wild and inconsistent, while they were all fairly steady 10-15 handicaps with strong short games so I needed birdies to win and pars to tie. I definitely came out on the bad end of those contests overall, but when I'd manage to win I felt pretty good - I knew I'd earned it against those odds!

They all died before him, the last two years ago. He was the last man left standing in his group. Unless you count me, I guess.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Greg Gilson

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 02:13:04 AM »

Doug - and others - thank you for sharing.


Doug, I am sorry to hear of your loss and to hear how you have gone a little cold on the game. I am sure your love for your dad & the game will get you back on the course soon enough. Good luck with that journey.


By way of sharing, I also grew up around golf. My dad was a club pro here in Australia back in the 50's & 60's. He grew up caddying & saw golf as a way out of the life he otherwise saw in front of him. He battled big time with alcoholism but somehow managed a career in golf in spite of that - thanks to some of his industry friends that supported him. I spent hours in golf with my dad but not like many of you...I was the eldest son who swept the shop, cleaned the members' clubs, "foxed" balls while he gave lessons and "picked" the practice fairway (as it was called in those days). We rarely got to play together and, when we did, we usually argued. Sad but true. My fault as much as his. But somehow he did give me a love for the game.


I married quite late & my wife took up golf "for the relationship". Lucky for me she excelled & we now have that to share. She & my dad were inseparable in those early days. He coached her for years until she fired him...usually on a monthly basis. They always made up & always bonded over her game, her equipment, her matches, her wins, her losses. I'll admit I was a little jealous but , moreso, I realise now reading Doug's (& others') stories that he was just giving her the gentle love & caring that he couldn't give me 30+ years before. That was a gift to me anyway.


My dad died about 10 years ago now and it was nice to have this opportunity to talk about him.


Thanks Doug.

Steve Kline

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 05:02:39 AM »
Doug,


Thanks for the courage to share about your dad. I'm sorry to hear about your loss. But, I am, and I am sure you are too, for all the time you spent with your dad playing golf.


I have a similar story with a twist.


My dad was a good athlete with terrible vision. Somehow he got into golf and really loved it.


So, my dad took me to the driving range when I was 3. I had a cut down 7-iron where the grip was almost the length of the shaft.


We joined a country club when I was everyone 7 or 8. I remember playing with my dad (and my mom) a lot. My dad was the one that taught me how to play in those formative years.


We moved to another club when I was about 11, which was when I really started getting into golf. In middle school, I got out at 2:20. My dad would me at home, take me to the golf course, and we would play 18 holes together - every day. On the weekends we would play 36. During the summer, I would play 18 with my mom in the morning, practice, and my dad would come out about 3 to play another 18 with me. In the winter, if it was above 40F we played. We always walked and carried. That was my life for almost seven years - playing golf with my dad every day that it was feasibly possible to do so.


We even went to parent-child golf school together. Davis Love was supposed to be the instructor, but he died in the plane crash just before that week. So, Chuck Cook was the lead instructor. They told me his nickname was Dr. Hook. Good thing because I was little and had a terrible hook so that I could lots of roll and distance to keep up with the others my age. Chuck set up a what seem like a 2x4 just outside my ball and told me to swing without hitting the wood. On the first swing, THWACK!, and I took a chunk out of the wood. My dad for years would talk about every 20-30 seconds hearing that THWACK! as I tried to hit the ball and miss the wood.


My parents joined Pinehurst when I was 13 or so. I spent every spring break there just my dad and me playing 36 holes of golf every day.


I got a golf scholarship to college thanks to all of that. Going to school meant that I didn't play golf with my dad until I got home for Thanksgiving. Those couple of months were easily the longest time we hadn't played a round of golf together. But, at Thanksgiving we had a nice day and went to play. Neither of us spoke the first five holes. Near the fifth green, we looked at each other across the fairway and everything just seemed right.


My dad always said that if I turned pro, he would quit work, be my caddy, and fund the whole thing. But, I never turned pro.


Out of school, I joined the family business. I also joined the same club as my dad. Pretty quickly we were back at our old routine of playing together all the time. We went on lots of golf trips together, including four to the UK and Ireland. One was just the two of us - that was a sweet trip.


He led me to GCA when he found the site looking up Pine Valley. We had just got invited to play there and he wanted to know what the course was like.


Whenever a tournament let me have a caddy, he was my caddy. My dad caddied for me in the 2007 U.S. Mid Am. He nicknamed himself Eagle Eye because of his terrible vision. He couldn't see where the ball went and he couldn't help read any putts, but it was awesome to have him there. In addition to his naturally terrible vision, he couldn't do those things between he went blind in his left eye a couple of years prior.


As I said, my dad always had terrible vision. I always had to keep an eye on his ball, especially at a new course. But, he managed to get himself down to a 4 handicap. When he went blind in his left eye, his handicap jumped to 15. He had no more depth perception. But, within a year or two he got his handicap back to down a 4.


He retired early, at age 60, to move full time to Pinehurst so that he could play as much golf as possible while he still had one eye. That was the beginning of 2009. That fall I was at Titleist getting custom fitted. The morning of the fitting my phone rang at 6 a.m. I saw it was my dad and thought how weird it was my dad was calling me at that time. He didn't call often and definitely not that early. He was upset and said, "It's happening in my other eye. Your mom's out of town. It's been happening for a few eyes and every morning I wake up I lose more vision in my eye." I could hear he was scared to be home alone and going blind. He said he couldn't sleep because he knew that he only lost more vision when he went to sleep and woke up the next morning. Within the week, he was completely blind.


He tried to play blind for a bit. He even broke 90 on Pinehurst #2 blind. But, he wasn't having fun. So he quit.


For almost 10 years, I had no idea how much that affected me.


I quit playing in 2011. At the time, I thought I was quitting because my wife was dying from cancer. I quit about six months before she died. For the most part, I didn't touch a club until this summer. I didn't watch golf either, and I never missed watching the majors.


My dad is still alive. Our relationship has never been what I hoped it would be. But, we always had golf together. And, there are way more great golf memories with my dad than I could possibly share here.


It's only this year, and your post Doug confirmed it, that the start of my quitting golf was my dad going blind. I lost the one and only golf partner I had ever had. He was my regular game. Your post has shown me how much I wish I could have played with the last decade, especially those rough patches where sharing a round of golf together would have meant a lot, even if we didn't talk about anything.

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 06:12:29 AM »

In another era he might have become a playing golf pro, but at age 23, Pearl Harbor happened.  Those 4 years in the South Pacific took a lot away from him.  But as with many of the Greatest Generation, his service to his country was never regretted.



Jim (and others),


If you have not done it, you can request your Dad's service records from the National Archives at https://www.archives.gov/veterans


It took about 6 months, they charge $25, and they do call to confirm you are related. They then send you a 2-3 inch stack of service records. Most are process papers but some are very interesting, and you literally find out every base and ship (Navy for my Dad) that they were on.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Jeff Schley

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 09:32:45 AM »
Jim and all others,
My condolences for the passing of your dad.  Mine is still with me and something I don't take for granted. He sounds like a great father and I hope you are left with the treasured memories of your past.
Golf is the primary vehicle I spend time with my dad and one we enjoy a great deal, however it is just the vehicle which has allowed us to spend such quality time doing something we both enjoyed doing.  The real treasure is the time spent, not necessarily golf. We all will miss our parents when they pass and whatever it was that bonded you to each other gave you time together.  That time spent is cherished as we age and like grains of sand accumulated in the hourglass, we long to fill it all up as much as we can.  Although the time comes where no more sand will pour down to fill the hourglass. God has a plan for us all and there will be a time when no more sand will pour below.  It doesn't discount, or dismiss how much sand has poured in our lives just because it stopped. We are wealthy with those memories and fortunate to have found a way via golf to connect with the ones we love.
Thus, I hope you can celebrate the time you had with your dad for although there will be no more, you couldn't have spent your time any more wisely.
God bless.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 10:03:10 AM »
Always wished my dad played.
He knew how much the game meant to me.


In the last few years of his life, he would come out with me and drive the cart when I visited my parents in Florida. (Florida=cart-balling...;-)
Same in the summers at their house in New Hampshire.


He would do a crossword puzzle, watch me play and we would just hang out. He loved it, I loved it.
In fact, it was the catalyst that got my wife playing more. She's now a solid 19 and can play 18 in under 3 hours.


Man...do I ever miss him.A giant of a man who left this earth with a lasting legacy of advancing women's healthcare.

MCirba

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 10:16:23 AM »
Doug,

I went through many of the same emotions when my Dad passed five years ago at the age of 85.   Somehow being out on the golf course, or playing a new course didn't provide the same level of excitement or enthusiasm as it had prior.

I felt much more "alone" at those times at first, but over time, with some intent, I returned to play some of the courses my Dad and I would frequent in the past.   At first, there was a terrific void as I missed him terribly, recalling our being together playing these very same holes, or recounting his joys and frustrations along the fairways and greens.   But after awhile, when I turned outward instead of inward, I swear I could feel his presence around me and it made total sense.   Dad did always love hanging out at the golf course and over time I felt his encouragement to keep pursuing my passion for the game...in the winds, and the sights, and smells and sounds all around me.

Now I know when I want to go visit my Dad that I just need to go to the golf course.   He'll always be there.

I wrote the following on GolfClubAtlas back in 2001.   My Dad lived for another good long time after his heart attack and returned to the game, albeit with diminished capacity and strength.   The last time I played with my Dad he was using some clubs I put together in a bag for him on a 2,700 yard nine hole course and he was splendid.   Shot after shot found the center of his clubface and he putted like a demon.   Hell, he almost beat me.   In retrospect, it was a fitting finale and I think he made his statement and left it at that.

In his later years, his inability to hit the ball more than about 130 yards meant that it was not fun anymore, and he left the game.   However, I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have played golf with my Dad for over forty years, and on his death bed I apologized for the times I was an immature ass on the course.   He said he never remembered that, but he was being kind, as always.

I would like to apologize in advance if this post comes off as overly sentimental.  It's just that we talk a lot of theory in here and sometimes such discourse is generally divorced from real-world application.

A week ago today, I made the two hour drive to meet my dad at a generally well-regarded modern course.  Given the time of year, carts were not allowed, and we were happy to set off on foot, as we both prefer.

The private course was built on over 400 acres, and despite the fact that housing was not a consideration in the design, it is rather spread out and seemingly more concerned with being a collection of holes than a contiguous golf course.  At the end of the day, my 43 year old legs were feeling the strain, and I could only imagine how my 74 year old dad and his 69 year old partner felt.

The course itself was clearly designed to be dramatic and challenging.  For a low-handicap golfer, there is more than adequate challenge, and the holes themselves seemed to run mostly uphill, often required considerable carries to reach preferred landing areas (or even just the fairway), and everything is meant to be designed on a huge scale.  Shots missing the preferred areas were often dealt with severely, with large mounds and stark falloffs creating abruptly uphill, sidehill, downhill, shots, and the facing of the bunkers and other features similiarly steep and daunting.

The course is a private members club, designed by a famous architect, and I left there thinking that it was a serious test of golf, if not particularly "fun" or naturally utilzing the land in a thoughtful way.  A great deal of earth seemed to have been moved for little purpose other than visual histrionics and dramatics.

This past Friday, I called home in the early afternoon to hear that an ambulance was at the house and my dad was suffering chest and arm pains.  Later, we were to find that he had suffered a heart attack.

As he was taken into the ambulance, his first words to my mom were, "well, I guess that's the end of my golf."  For a man who considers golf his lifestyle, this was a particularly painful admission at a time when his very existence on this planet seemed to be in serious question.

A little background; my dad had always been a serious sporting enthusiast, but had never played golf, due largely to his lower-middle-income lifestyle, until his children began to play the game in their early teens at a fun little, ramshackle, farmland public nine-holer called Scott View GC, where we would often play from sunrise to sunset.  He immediately became enamored with this wonderful game, and over the years, our conversations inevitably started with "how you hitting them?", whenever we spoke. 

Although we had a tenuous, and sometimes contentious relationship during my "wild years", we could always both count on the fact that we had golf to share between us.  Many were the time when he would give me a "shot by shot" recounting of his latest round, or share our thoughts on a course we had recently played.  My long-suffering mom would understandingly give wide clearance to the rest of her golf-crazed family once the conversation inevitably turned towards our latest adventures on the links.

In my life, golf created the bond where our disparate generations where linked and shared.  Differences in political views, lifestyles, financial options, personalities, and other mundane, menial details of everyday life just dissipated whenever the topic turned to our shared passion for golf, and more importantly, to the fields of play we mutually enjoyed.  He absolutely loved and was so proud of the fact that his son had the opportunity to play so many of the golf courses that populated our land, be they great, mediocre, or poor.  He has always shared my belief that every course, and every round of golf, is an adventure, another chapter of an open ended book, both a place to enjoy and discover nature, as well as to continue to never-ending process of self-discovery and improvement within a new and challenging context.

After hanging up the phone in shocked silence, and given the news of his health, I rushed upstate to offer my support, love, and assistance. 

As we sat in the hospital room, with various life-sustaining tubes attached to my dad, once we were past the talk of cholestrol levels, balloon angioplasty (which is the procedure which will be done tomorrow), and other immediate concerns, I could see that something was still bothering my dad.

I tried to reassure him...."Dad...the docs say they think the damage was minimal..you were lucky that you were home when it happened....their going to want you to get back on your feet and active again as soon as possible."

He said, "I guess this means our trip to Pinehurst in January is out, huh?

Reluctantly, I answered..."yes, but we'll reschedule it for as soon as you're able."  I didn't want to offer false encouragement, but knowing how much being able to play means to him, I also wanted to give him hope that he'd be back on the links, because I knew how much it means to him.

We talked through the evening, the conversation inevitably turning to golf.  We talked about the course we had played last week.  My dad has always been one to give any course the benefit of the doubt....like Jim Finegan, I think he could enjoy himself on any course, anywhere.  I started by telling him that I thought the course was very challenging, on a beautiful piece of property, but that I thought the place was overshaped in the interest of creating artificial drama, but still a fine test.

He surprisingly stopped me short, by offering the following;

"You know...if I ever built a golf course...I'd try to make it challenging for the best players.  But...I think that any course should really be playable for any golfer and not just by where they set the tees.  I like a good challenge as much as the next guy, but I don't know who some of these guys think are going to play their courses.  I don't get to play many private courses, but I can't imagine that the guys who play there all the time have as much fun as I do on courses that are a lot less well-maintained and not nearly as ambitious."

I thought about Pinehurst, and said a silent prayer that I'd have the opportunity to someday show him a golf course that I'm sure he'd be happy to stroll along.

I also thought about his faith, and told him that someday, hopefully far in the future,  he'd be playing golf courses that would make Pine Valley look like Scott View.

I'd also bet that they'd be walkable, and accommodating to all levels of play.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 10:32:39 AM »
Your story is what makes golf so special and why I am disappointed that my boys have drifted away from golf as they are starting their careers.  Parents today say that they don't have time for golf which is a failure to recognize why golf is so important and unique.  Sitting on a chair and watching your kid play baseball, soccer, football, etc. is supportive but it is not the same as playing golf with them.  It is a time for you and your child to spend away from others and simply enjoy each other's company.  It also opens up communications that just aren't there when they are playing another sport, etc. It is a great game with great memories that nothing else can give.

Tom Allen

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 11:02:12 AM »
Great stories everyone.  My goal is to take my dad to Scotland (he's 84) before he gives up the game entirely.  You have motivated me to try harder to do so.

Mark Smolens

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 01:00:55 AM »
Doug,


First of all it’s very hard to type, especially on an IPad, when you’re crying. I lost my dad to a heart attack in 1990, and I think about him every day, but never more so than when I’m on a golf course.


I got my introduction to the game from him. He was a fine player - captained the golf team at Temple University after he got back from the Air Force, even finished ahead of Pirky Oliver in the Philippines Open while stationed there. But after getting married and having 3 kids, there were a few non golf years for him.


We moved to Phoenix when I was in second grade. He started playing one day a weekend with some guys from work, and I would caddy. I’d pull his clubs for a dollar and a cheeseburger. In the summer we’d tee off as soon as it got light to beat the heat. He never got mad, never swore or slammed a club - guess I didn’t get that from him.


But I was hooked. He taught me to play, taught me to enjoy the game, the people I played with, and the challenge. The last time I saw him was Father’s Day weekend. We played Ridge and Evanston CCs with my boss and his partner, my permanent tee time at Dubsdread on Sunday, and both courses at Olympia Fields at an outing on Monday. The courses were softer than he was used to, but for the first time in our golfing lives I was better than he was (tho he still made every 6 footer he looked at with that Bullseye putter).  Six weeks later, in our regular Friday phone call, it came out that my index was lower than his for the first time. Two days later he had a massive heart attack and died.


I still vividly remember taking his clubs to the range after the memorial service, hitting balls while crying my eyes out (and getting some very strange looks). They’ll tell you that it gets easier with time, but that’s not true in my experience. But the game has become for me a connection with my dad. . . Condolences on your loss, but hang in there and get back on the horse

Terry Lavin

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 01:36:00 PM »
I am one of eight children (4 boys, 4 girls) and our father was a Coca Cola driver when we were young.  In the late 1960's he bought the three oldest (all boys) golf clubs for Christmas, even though he wasn't much of a player.  I can't imagine that he would've had much time to play, given that he also worked part time as a bartender during those years.  In any event, we all started playing fifty years ago, in the summer of 1968, which was a remarkably stressful time in our city and our country.  My dad showed us how to sneak onto Hickory Hills Golf Course.  He would drop us off around 5:30 in the morning and we would literally throw our bags over the fence, climb the fence and start playing.  We would scour the garbage cans to try to find receipts that had been discarded, which we presented to club employees who would find us on the course.  They laughed at our boldness and let us play for a few hours until it started to get busy.  We had a total blast and that was the stimulation that got me obsessed about golf in high school and college.


After he retired, he started to play a little golf but his body broke down and by the time he lapsed into Alzheimer's disease, he had long forgotten his gift to me.


I may have told the following story before, but I'll throw it out anyway.  In one of the early cases I handled as an appellate judge involved Hickory Hills Golf Club, which sued its insurance company after it refused a claim for dozens of trees felled in a violent thunderstorm.  In the first paragraph, I quoted H.J. Whigham who said "every single tree on the links should be ruthlessly cut down."  I'm guessing that they didn't need to read much of the remaining 15 pages to know what the result was going to be.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 01:45:10 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

RJ_Daley

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2019, 04:07:57 PM »
Sorry to hear you lost you Dad, Doug.
A lot of touching stories by some of our regular passionate and sentimental golfers of GCA.com.   Most of us have some fond memory of a parent that intertwined with our own appreciation of golf, or the field of play.  Some had Fathers that were on the business side of golf (pro or maintenance)  All such paths influence their youngsters.  It sounds like you path was a wonderful one. 

Rather than tell you of my Dad's influence on my participation in golf related activites (Dad's was minimal as a non-golfer, but a Godfather got me started at around age 11 and frequent trips to Lawsonia by age 12/13 leading to recognition of the uniqueness of the design there as special) I would rather bring the focus back to how you are obviously very reflective of what the passing of Dad means, and fits into future possible golf activity.
It sounds more like you are understandably grieving.  It hits us all in a variety of ways.  You might have just as possibly gone the other way and made a mad rush to soak in and increase every chance to golf as a mechanism to keep Dad's memory alive.  But, I think you have your own individual way to deal with it, and the golf frequency or enthusiasm is probably only a part of your process. 

I think let nature take its course.  Maybe you'll go back to golf, maybe not.  It is all OK.  Just focus on YOUR future in a positive way and find things that you enjoy.  Who knows, maybe some certain spring, summer or fall day will have all the ingredients to re-stimulate YOUR passion for golf and you will have your clubs handy and away you'll go, for the love of the game and with a slightly less immediate pang of memory of Dad. 

I've sort of hit that wall of the longing to have had a relationship with my son a golfing companion.  But, he had no real interest.  His passion is off road mountain and fat tire biking and races.  He knows some of my regular golfing partners and shows them respect, but at 36 years old, isn't interested to play the game.  I have now met my golfing fate with both shoulders so damaged that even if the son would get interested; that boat has sailed.  It was a bit of a reluctant resignation, but one gets over it slowly.  We have to move on with or without golf.

I  know that having had the great pleasure and some good laughs with you on some great courses, you have all it takes to "find your game" when and if the time comes.  So, good luck with the process.  Take care.


No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2019, 10:14:53 AM »
I really miss calling dad after a great round or great shot.    He passed in 2012, but it seems like yesterday.

Dan Smoot

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2019, 04:05:26 PM »
Doug,


I am so sorry to hear about your Dad.  Thank you for sharing.  It does mean a lot to us that have been there. I am tearing up just thinking about the great times I had with my father.


Golf with my father became a special time that began to mean considerably more to me as he got older.


I started pulling my Dad's cart when he took up the game and I was 7 yrs old.  Enjoyed just being along.  My Dad suffered a job related back injury at 30 that prevented him from playing.  I became a teenager and started playing with friends in a town where junior golf was made very inexpensive with specific times carved out.  My Dad started playing again after I started.  He actually became more passionate about the game and it became a focus between the two of us, every time I came back home to my mothers ire   Most memorable was sleeping in the Torrey Pines parking lot to get a tee time.  We used golfing together to talk about everything.  I leaned upon my Dad for advice until he passed away even though I was 50 yrs old.


The last time I played with him, I could tell something was wrong and he was gone within 2 months.  The amount of golf I played dropped significantly off for a few years, not out of lack of opportunity but because I think I was still dealing with the loss.  I still can't play a couple of courses where we played a lot of golf.  What great memories I have and I think I miss his needle most of all.


God Bless you Doug.

James Brown

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2019, 10:22:05 PM »
Looking forward to a golf trip with my dad (75) in Florida in 10 days.  New Course at Grand Cypress and then World Woods.  He can’t walk, so Streamsong was out. 


My Dad taught me golf and snow skiing and everything else, but those two stand out. 



Doug Siebert

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2019, 02:53:13 PM »
The last time I played with him, I could tell something was wrong and he was gone within 2 months.  The amount of golf I played dropped significantly off for a few years, not out of lack of opportunity but because I think I was still dealing with the loss.  I still can't play a couple of courses where we played a lot of golf.  What great memories I have and I think I miss his needle most of all.

Yes I think I probably am too. I only played once this year, in early May, and just didn't enjoy it. I pretty much resigned myself to forgetting about golf for this year. Next year I'll try again early in the season and if I find my interest returning I think I'll join an evening league (something I've never considered before) just to force myself to play every week. Hopefully the enjoyment of the game returns for me, eventually.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2019, 03:27:35 PM »
My dad died, aged 62, on new year's day 2011 after having an enormous stroke a couple of days before Xmas. My mum had died of breast cancer five months previously. Two particular golf stories.


He retired about fifteen months before he died. Start of 2010 (his birthday was in January) I said to him 'I'll buy you a new driver, but you have to get properly fitted'. He bitched and moaned, hated that sort of thing, but eventually to the fitting centre we went. Note: he'd never had a driver he could hit consistently -- he kept buying new ones, trying them for a few months and going back to teeing off with his three wood. So, we are at the fitting centre. He says to the guy 'I want a Taylormade, regular shaft, 8.5 degree loft' (what he'd had for years and years and never been able to hit). Chaps gives him one, he makes a few swings, says 'This is ok'. Fitting guy says 'Try this sir', and hands him something else, which he hits, far, far better and is convinced to let me buy. It's 11 per cent loft, 'senior' flex shaft. And guess what? He can hit it!


I went out to play golf with him and his buddies a couple of weeks later. It's a Saturday at his club and there's an informal 'pro's Stableford' competition, which everyone enters. It's obvious all the way round that he's playing well. Up the eighteenth, he plays another perfect drive and tots up his score walking to his ball. Turns to his best mate, with whom he has planned to play a ton of senior open competitions across the North of England that summer and says 'I'm sorry buddy.' Friend says 'What do you mean Peter, you're playing great?' to which he replies 'I know, they're going to cut me to a level I can't be competitive off'. At the time, he'd gone out to 21 handicap, and he shot a gross 77, by about six strokes the best score of his life. Just to prove it wasn't a fluke, he went out the following week and shot an 81, off the white tees, to win the monthly medal by a mile. The committee, for the two rounds, cut hm from 21 to 14.


Second, a couple of weeks after he died, I played golf for the first time. Now, over the previous thirty years, I had played the majority of my golf with him. For all that time, he'd been telling me to slow down, to swing more rhythmically. At one point, I hit a huge and horrible smoother hook, the fault I've been fighting all my life, and entirely caused by swinging far too fast. I fell about laughing, and said to myself 'Well, Dad, you couldn't stop me while you were here, you've got no bloody chance now you aren't.'
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Bill Seitz

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2019, 02:10:17 PM »
My dad passed away about seven years ago.  When I was 8 or 9, he started taking me, along with my older brother, to the local three par course (Arcadia, CA), and we'd walk with one bag on a pull cart with all of our clubs.  I probably played that course and another three par exclusively until toward the end of junior high, when I finally started playing "big" courses.  After a while, my brother stopped playing (my dad said he quit when I got good enough to beat him), but I played in high school and on the club team in college, and worked at a pro shop during and after college before leaving home for grad school.


In the early to mid-2000s, he started suffering from various ailments, including multiple myeloma.  He still played a weekly game at Azusa Greens for as long as he could.  Every once in a while we'd try to get out when I was home visiting.  We went back to the old par three course once, and they had added a couple of electric carts, which he needed at that point, but he could still play.  I hadn't been there in years, and was a much different player than I was a kid.  I kept hitting sand wedges into the spongy public course greens, and spinning them off the front, but it was the company that mattered.  The next time we played there (second to last time we ever played together), I had learned my lesson, and punched pitching wedges and 9-irons to control the spin.  On the course where I used to hope to break 80 as a kid, I shot a seven under par 47, which is not repeatable for me at all.  But the best part about it was how happy my dad was.  He got to see how far I'd come as a player.  My swing is more or less self taught, but everything else I know about golf, etiquette, demeanor, and just how to be good guest or partner, I learned from him.


A couple years later, after he passed away, my mom was going through some of his things, and it turns out he'd kept that scorecard.  That probably meant more to me than anything. It sounds funny, but while we'd usually talk on the phone at least once a week, if we were watching the same Angels game, or LA Kings game, or UCLA football/basketball game, we would talk as many 3-4 times per night.  I don't regret much about leaving Southern California 20 years ago, but missing those last 10-12 years with my dad is chief among them.[size=78%]  [/size]

Steve Kline

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Re: Death of your father and golf
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2019, 03:37:59 PM »
Bill's story should come with a warning at the beginning. Super cool.