Matchplay - Silloth vs Goswick

[Mark Pearce]

There was some discussion last weekend after the final of the UK knock-out over the relative merits of the North of England's two unsung links superstars.  The general feeling was that good though Goswick is, it doesn't quite match Silloth.  Inspired by Sean's N&P v Portsalon v Crossland Heath thread but unconvinced by his understanding of how a skins game works, I thought it might be interesting to have Silloth and Goswick face off in the time honoured GCA matchplay format (which I think we all know isn't really a great way to compare courses!)


Please feel free to chip in, if you know these courses, I'm going to discuss each hole and give my decision but I'm open to persuasion that I'm wrong.


1st hole.


Standing on the first tee at Silloth gives a great insight into what is to come.  A gently undulating fairway, flanked by rough wends its way gently up a hill but, even from the tee, we can see that the approach is blind.  That approach is to a flattish green hidden in a bowl, difficult to hit and hold on the fly and needing you to come in from the correct side to hold with a shot running down the bank. 


Goswick shows you everything from the tee.  The green sits off to the right, with trees and internal OOB between you and that green, benched in the dune and with a huge false front.  Hitting the green from anywhere but the right of the fairway feels almost impossible but that's where the OOB lurks.


Both really strong openers, though Goswick's is more controversial with the internal OOB.  For me, though, Silloth takes the opener.


Silloth 1 up.

[Mark Pearce]

Silloth's second is a fabulous short par 4.  Doglegging sharply left to right hitting the fairway is only half the battle.  If the first green was flattish, this green is a ride on the waves.  The front right bunker makes an approach from the right awkward but there is a bank and a hidden bunker left.  Played well a birdie chance but no pushover par.


At Goswick, we stay with quirk as we play a blind par 3, over a deep hollow of rough and a bank to a green inclined towards us and the left.  It's the first of a mixed set of par 3s at Goswick (I think it may be fair to say of both courses that they have one excellent short par 3 each but the other short holes aren't great sets). 


Goswick has opened with two pretty good holes but, like the first, pretty good doesn't get the job done against Silloth's second.  The hole goes to Silloth.


Silloth 2 up.

[Ian Galbraith]

Looking forward to reading your thoughts Mark, I've played 36 at Goswick on outings nearly every year for the past 20 so know it pretty well. On the other hand Silloth is sadly still high up on my undone todo list. I suspect the outcome will be an even stronger pull to get down to Silloth!

[Mark Pearce]

On the 3rd, Silloth turns straight into the prevailing westerly.  A smallish shoulder of dune on the right obscures the right side of the fairway and there is another dune, and rough, down the left.  On a breezy day a very intimidating tee shot.  The hole doglegs left, to a green banked up in the dunes.  It can take a long club to reach on a windy day, so it's fortunate that the ball can be run up.  Miss left, however, and there's gunk to get out of  and a steep bank  of rough to get over.  Miss right or long, however, and you can be faced with a chip down hill to a green running away from you, so that holding the green can be a challenge.  I was astonished when BUDA was at Silloth to learn that, in an unusual Easterly wind, this green can be driven.  Perhaps only Ben Stephens would try!  This may be the weakest of the first four holes at Silloth but it's still excellent.


Goswick's third is the best hole we have played so far at that course.  Driving from an elevated tee to a fairway that doglegs to the right, hinting from the tee that there may be some benefit in toying with the rough and bunkering on the inside of the dogleg.  In fact, the outside of the dogleg gives an easier approach to a green protected by some fabulous undulation short right.  A really good hole and this is the closest shout yet. 


I'm tempted to give a half but I want to avoid sitting on the fence wherever possible and, on balance, Silloth just takes this.  It's close, though, and could go the other way on another day.  Goswick has made a pretty good start here, with three holes that would give most a run for their money but finds itself 3 down.  Can it fight back?

[Mark Pearce]

Undaunted by being 3 down after 3, Goswick ups its game again at the 4th.  The first par 5 on either course and it's a ripper!  As an aside, whilst Silloth's 13th may be, as mooted last week, the best par 5 in GB&I, I think that, as I suggested last weekend at Silloth, Goswick has, overall, a significantly better set of par 5s than its opponent.  Goswick's 4th hole has a tee shot similar in many ways to the previous hole.  Dogleg left to right, tempting an attempt to carry, or at least take on, the inside of the corner.  Like the 3rd, however, I don't think there's any real advantage in this.  For most, the second will be a lay up without a helping wind (which there may well be).  If having a go at the green, however, it's narrow, very narrow.  Missing right brings a bank and an elongated hollow into play, missing left requires a chip up a bank, over a slight ridge and from either side getting it on the green is no gimme.  A really strong response to the plight Goswick finds itself in.


Silloth, however, can see Goswick's 4th and raise it.  Driving from the ridge  of the dune the 3rd green is benched in, we play to a blind fairway, picking one of the industrial buildings on the horizon as our aiming point.  There's a large dune on the left and the hole doglegs to the left.  It's easy to run out of fairway and the rough on the right is not to be toyed with.  The smart play here is rarely driver.  Hit something that will hit the fairway and roll out to the right side, to give a good view of the green.  And what a green!  The green itself is a really good one, almost a flattened out Biarritz (thanks Niall for that thought) but that isn't what is notable.  See Ran's review of Silloth for the steep rough drop off on both sides.  Miss either side and you can be going backwards and forwards across this green for a while.  A truly memorable, unique golf hole.


Goswick must wonder what it can do to compete.  It throws in a really, really good par 5 and Silloth summons a great par 4.  Silloth takes the hole and leads 4 up.

[Mark Pearce]

Goswick has taken a beating so far but fights on with an excellent par 4 5th.  3 and 4 have headed in the same basic direction but now we turn back and head back up into the dunes.  The hole dog legs left, to a green protected by a deep bunker front right and a hollow left.  There's nothing quirky or fussy about this hole, it's just a strong par 4 requiring two well executed shots and punishing the golfer who gets out of position.


Silloth, however, stumbles at the 5th.  The first of its par 5s has elements of a cape hole, driving from the dunes to a fairway that runes from right to left.  It's a good drive.  What follows now (the hole was extended relatively recently by moving the green back 60 odd yards) is a lay up, hitting whatever you are comfortable hitting down a relatively wide fairway, to leave a short iron (if you have hit two strong shots) to the new green.  There's nothing wrong with the new green but it looks and plays like so many modern greens.  It slopes from back to front and right to left and is bunkered left.  It's fine.  But at a course as interesting as Silloth it's blandness strikes an awkward note.


Goswick takes this easily.  Silloth is 3 up, but has the fightback commenced?

[Mark Pearce]

Goswick's 6th is a second par 5 in three holes and another belter.  Hard by the edge of the property, this is as close as we get to the beach on a course where the sea is never something you are greatly aware of.  The drive has out of bounds down the right and a fairway that cants to the left.  Hit it long, and the fairway falls off, so offering additional length.  From the lower level of the fairway the approach is back up hill to a two tiered green, fronted by a steep bank.  Again, the dune in which the green is shelved is on the right, with a fall off left.  A second strong par 5 on a course with a really good set of long holes.


Silloth's 6th is a long par 3 to a green protected by a small dune, with a gap narrower than the green.  On the right that dune curves around the green and there's a bunker front right, eating into that bank.  A decent par 3 but not one that makes my heart sing.


Silloth's par 3 is no match for Goswick's par 5, so the match is back to Silloth 2 up.

[Tim Gallant]

Great thread Mark!


I am mostly in agreement so far with your assessments. I suspect that Silloth will need that lead heading into the back-9 with belters at Goswick on 12, 14 and 15!


Ian, I'll make a trip down with you this summer if you'd like? It's a fantastic golf course and one worth seeing for sure.

[Mark Pearce]

Thanks, Tim.  Good to know someone's reading!  If you and Ian do plan a Silloth trip in the summer, let me know. 

[Mark Pearce]

Silloth's 7th is another uphill drive with a hidden green.  If the first was a good hole, this is better.  There's more going on in the fairway, with a depression on the left to be avoided.  If you can get past that, however (and into a breeze that's a strong blow) then the left is the better side to come in from.  Over the ridge in front of the green there's a bit more land before the green than on 1, and a shoulder of dune comes in from the left, meaning that you can be over the ridge but have to overcome that for an up and down.  Another relatively flat green but a really good hole.


Goswick's 7th is an interesting hole.  For years I didn't really like it but it has grown on me in recent years.  The straightest of all the holes at Goswick the drive is along the railway, which borders the hole on the right.  The railway embankment is a steep slope and the rough on that slope best avoided.  Perhaps it's the dead straight drive that used to put me off, because the second shot, to a green banking towards the fairway and the left, is a good one.  Echoes of Silloth's par 5 5th in that approach but the shot feels like a better one.


A few years ago I'd have given this to Silloth in a flash.  It's closer now but Silloth's 7th is an excellent hole and still takes the win.  Silloth back to 3 up.

[Mark Pearce]

Silloth's 8th is perhaps the straightest hole on the course.  Driving down the valley between two parallel dunes leaves a mid iron to a green which is tricky to read, seeming to break from both sides towards the centre.


Goswick's 8th is a mid length par 4.  Another dogleg right to left, you need to avoid the bunkers sitting on the inside of the elbow to set up a short or mid iron approach to a green protected all round by undulations.


Goswick's 8th is not one of the stars of the course but it is a really good hole.  Silloth's may be the least interesting of a really excellent set of par 4s.  Goswick takes the hole and lies 2 down.

[Ian Galbraith]

Hold the press - Goswick loses the 4th ! Blimey must be some 4th hole at Silloth  . Goswick's 4th green is a wee gem. Small and awkward but still nestled naturally in place. Frustrating and delightful at the same time. You are mostly coming in with a wedge so it is a fair challenge, but a testing one.  A much better hole than the 5th which Goswick wins - but that is matchplay I guess.


Glad to see the 6th kept the game alive with a win - but I fear for the matchup at the 9th.....


Tim - Silloth in summer sounds like a plan - let's compare our busy diaries and get something pencilled in.

[Sean_A]

Mark

Not surprisingly I have the match far closer thus far. 

1. I think you are underselling the awkwardness of G's opener. I am not pressed to name a winner for each hole and would consider the opener a wash.

2. For sure, Silloth 1up.

3. Yes, but a close call. Silloth 2up.

4. Both have great greensites.  But, as is usually the case I will take the par 5 over 3s and 4s.  Its a very close call.  Silloth 1up.

5. Too close to call for me, though I haven't seen the new green at Silloth.  Both holes have features I really like...Silloth's go find the fairway drive and the ramp effect up to the green at Goswick.  Silloth 1up

6. Both are good holes, but I will plop for a good 5 over a 3.  All square.

7. Both are very good holes, but I really like Silloth's greensite.  Silloth 1up.

8. I didn't get a sense of the full picture of Goswick because the winter tee is radically different from the summer tee.  I do, however, like the green and how it is protected.  Silloth's medium par 4 is not one I am a fan of, but I can't choose a clear winner here.  Silloth 1up

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Hold the press - Goswick loses the 4th ! Blimey must be some 4th hole at Silloth  . Goswick's 4th green is a wee gem. Small and awkward but still nestled naturally in place. Frustrating and delightful at the same time. You are mostly coming in with a wedge so it is a fair challenge, but a testing one.  A much better hole than the 5th which Goswick wins - but that is matchplay I guess.


Glad to see the 6th kept the game alive with a win - but I fear for the matchup at the 9th.....


Tim - Silloth in summer sounds like a plan - let's compare our busy diaries and get something pencilled in.

Indeed, Goswick's 4th would beat most holes on most courses.  It's the luck (and fundamental flaw) of this matchplay comparison that it loses because of the strength of Silloth's fabulous 4th, whilst the 8th, a good hole but not nearly on the same level as the 4th, wins its match up.  Your concerns regarding the 9th are about to come to fruition.....

[Mark Pearce]

As Ian feared, the 9th is not much of a contest.  Both are par 3s but there the comparison ends.


Whisper it quietly, but Silloth's 9th loses nothing in comparison to Troon's 8th.  From an exposed tee, what can often be a wedge but where good players can also require woods in a good breeze, it is one of the great short par 3s.  Fronting bunkers may suggest that long right is the preferred miss but, just as at Troon, that leaves an incredibly hard recovery up a steep bank.  The wind can blow into the dunes on the left, from where both luck and great skill will be required to recover.  With 4 and 13 one of the courses stand out holes.


The 9th at Goswick is almost an apologetic way to get from 8th green to 10th tee.  Flat, with a rather odd artificial berm around the back and sides.  Others like it more than I do but in my mind clearly the weakest single hole on either course.


Silloth 3 up at the turn but the suspicion lingers, as Tim hinted earlier, that Silloth will have work to do to protect that lead.

[Niall C]

I'm a wee bit handicapped being only able to recall the flavor of Goswick rather than all the detail but the first four and the front nine in general at Silloth are perhaps the strongest I know on any links (haven't played Royal Aberdeen and a number of other great links) so 3 down at the turn perhaps is a reasonably good return for Goswick.

Specifically I can't really recall Goswicks 5th hole but not surprised that Mark gave it to Goswick. At Silloth, without the temptation to go for it in two it has become a fairly mundane second shot followed by a par 3 style green.

Sean - are you sure you haven't played the new 5th green ? I seem to recall you played it a few years after it was built.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,


I typed a long response to your post but the system seems to have lost it!  I don't think we're that far apart but I have a predilection towards having a winner where possible.  I also think this system is very subjective.  Goswick's 4th is a fabulous hole but, like others but not like you, I love Silloth's 4th and for me, it had to win that match up.  The stark contrast between picking between two holes as good as the respective 4th holes here and the chasm in quality at the 9th is another flaw in the system!


I'll be interested to hear what you think of my scoring as the match progresses.  Assuming you agree on the 9ths (and it's hard to imagine you don't) then you have Silloth 2 up at the turn, to my 3, both leads that may take some defending.

[Tim Gallant]

Sean,


Agree Number 4 is close...very close. But for me, the green sites are a push (or maybe just a slight advantage to Goswick). But in my mind, there isn't anything incredibly special about tee shot or fairway undulations, whereas at Silloth, I think that is one of the best tee shots on the course and I love the micro undulations in the fairway, along with the dunes that you play through for the approach.

[Mark Pearce]

Goswick's 10th is, like the 9th, on the flatter land near the clubhouse.  It's a left to right dogleg but this time the bunkering is on the outside of the corner, with a low dune and rough on the inside.  The line of charm is down the right but the better line is away from the inside of the corner.  Although it's on flattish land, the green is interesting, with a ridge down its length.  A hole that lovers of eye-candy will hate but a very good hole on flat land.


Silloth's 10th is a short par 4.  Dog legging sharply left, a long iron/utility lay up will leave a wedge or less.  The inside of the dogleg is protected by a dune, much of it covered in gorse.  On our visit a week ago, a lot of the gorse on the far side of this dune had been removed and there were signs of significant clearance elsewhere on the course.  As it stands, for me, the risks of trying to drive this green (there's OOB long and right of the green) are too great to take it on (I say hypocritically, because that's exactly what I tried last week!).  There's lots about this hole I should really like but, for some reason, I don't love it like I love many short par 4s, perhaps because something about it doesn't "fit" the rest of the course.


I'm really torn here.  Goswick's hole is a great use of flat land.  Silloth's hole is on more interesting land but, for me, doesn't make the most of it.  I'm calling this one a half.  Silloth retains a 3 hole lead.

[Mark Pearce]

Silloth's 11th hole is a long par 4, which has seen significant change in recent years.  Originally played almost straight, the frequency of balls landing in the adjoining caravan park (yes, like many great British links, Silloth adjoins a caravan park) forced change.  The hole now doglegs left to right and the dune on the right has been built up, with out of bounds brought in from the limits of the course.  Even last week there was evidence of more clearance on the left to encourage players away from the caravans.  My recollections of the one occasion I played the hole before the changes suggest that it has lost a little charm and quirk (Niall may be better placed to comment) but it remains a strong hole.  It will take two good blows to reach the green and there is OOB right of the green and thorns left.  Despite the changes it feels, to me at least, a better fit for the course than 10.


Goswick's 11th is the third excellent par 5 on the course.  If 10 was on flat land, 11 is on the gently rolling linksland that is best for golf.  A wonderfully flowing fairway and clever if modest bunkering leads to a great par 5 green, with so many places to put a hole that can be tricky to get close.  It may be the least dramatic par 5 in a really excellent set but it may also be my favourite.


Another match up between two very strong holes but there's only one winner here.  Goswick takes first blood on the back nine and is just two down.

[James Reader]

Wasn’t there some talk on here about Silloth’s 10th and 11th being redesigned/replaced?  Does anyone know if that’s why the gorse clearance is taking place?

[Mark Pearce]

James,


You may be right.  It would be interesting if that is the case.  The 11th has been a problem for a while, so moving play further from the caravans must be an attraction.  There was a lot of clearance to the right and behind the 12th green, as well.

[Mark Pearce]

Silloth's 12th is a longish par 3, with an elevated green.  There's a bank of rough and heather to the left but for most this is a hole to run a ball up, and to do that you want to flirt with that bank.  Like the 6th, it's a good but not great par 3.


Goswick's 12th is...unusual.  A shortish par 4, you drive at an angle to a steeply sloping fairway, which runs out into a hollow followed by a ridge short of where even I hit a driver.  From the fairway the green is only a short iron but it's a blind shot.  The green is reasonably large and there's plenty of room short.  Missing either side or long is no picnic.  Missing the drive is a problem, there's a stream right and the dune on which the fairway has gnarly rough to the left.  Even with a short iron, hitting from thick rough with the ball below your feet is not the shot you want.  Experience suggests that the best miss is long, into the broken ground where the fairway runs out.


Any architect proposing to build a hole like Goswick's 12th today would be certified but it's the clear winner here and Silloth's lead is reduced to one up.

[Mark Pearce]

If Silloth's 12th hole was a more than serviceable but ultimately uninspiring par 3, then Goswick matches that at the 13th.  Played from an elevated tee, this is a mid to long iron to a green well protected by bunkering.  A miss left leaves a downhill lie and a miss long leaves a quick downhill recovery.  A green to miss short or right but better hit.  It's a very solid par 3 but not a stirring one.


Silloth's par 5 13th, however, is the best hole on either course.  Indeed, there was some argument last week that it's the best par 5 in the UK.  It may not be but it certainly holds its own in the very highest company.  A drive to a flat fairway requires some care in the summer if the ball is rolling out, as the fairway narrows as it approaches a pinch point between dunes, where the hole rises through broken ground to an elevated fairway.  The fairway and green sit on a dune ridge, with steep fall offs on both sides and the fairway rises up and gets steeper as you approach the green.  The lay up is no easy shot and the approach requires precision.  Long players may feel tempted to go for the green in two but that's a shot that risks a big number.  It's a great hole and not a single bunker on it.


This is an easy one and Silloth pulls back out to a two hole lead.

[mike_malone]

 Goswick better come back or I’m canceling Buda.