Nicklaus accused of ousting board

[Cliff Hamm]

https://therealdeal.com/miami/2019/01/04/in-the-rough-golf-legend-jack-nicklaus-accused-of-ousting-homeowners-board-in-power-move/?utm_source=FCAP+Member+Advantage&utm_campaign=2f5c43ac93-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4a9d0c3f63-2f5c43ac93-112967945

[Sven Nilsen]

Sometimes when you copy text and links from other sites it brings over the formatting.  If you click the button above during the posting process which has the blue arrow between red brackets, it will show you all the formatting.  You can delete anything that appears in brackets that you don't want.

[Joe Bausch]

That URL Cliff posted:

https://therealdeal.com/miami/2019/01/04/in-the-rough-golf-legend-jack-nicklaus-accused-of-ousting-homeowners-board-in-power-move/

[corey miller]

How is the course? 


I assume one can be a member of the Bear's Club without owning any property?


It would be hard to believe that the homeowners were blindsided as to ownership of the course.....That said the litigation on the other issues might be very interesting. 

[Anthony Butler]

That URL Cliff posted:

https://therealdeal.com/miami/2019/01/04/in-the-rough-golf-legend-jack-nicklaus-accused-of-ousting-homeowners-board-in-power-move/

Since Michael Jordan is a homeowner in that development, does that mean he's suing Jack Nicklaus?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I will stress I know nothing of this case and its particulars. 


I do know that many clubs are trying to add assessments to a homeowners HOA dues to partially defray golf maintenance expenses.  I hear of this at many seminars, and the idea is the homeowners do benefit from the golf views in property values and should pay some of the expense.


I trust it is easier to set up the HOA this way initially, and harder to implement it over time.  It also raises some interesting issues, such as does this club need to be maintained at the top level/cost for homeowners (and non golfers) to benefit in property values?

[Jim Franklin]

How is the course? 


I assume one can be a member of the Bear's Club without owning any property?


It would be hard to believe that the homeowners were blindsided as to ownership of the course.....That said the litigation on the other issues might be very interesting.

Going down there at the end of the month to play. Pictures looked promising.

[David_Tepper]

On the subject of homeowners and golf course developments:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66726.0.html

[Steve Lang]

   I wonder what the fine print of the homeowner's purchase agreements says about governance things?

[Steve Lapper]

How is the course? 


I assume one can be a member of the Bear's Club without owning any property?


It would be hard to believe that the homeowners were blindsided as to ownership of the course.....That said the litigation on the other issues might be very interesting.

The course is meticulously maintained and prides itself on being reasonably difficult. It's fun, but tough.


 It is the Florida playing and practice home to many Tour pros, CEOs, Snowbirds and celebrities.


Yes, it's possible to be a member without being a homeowner.


The club has had a history of tension between several factions over numerous issues. I've no idea of what the current flashpoint(s) are, or what who has done to whom,but Jack's business practices and skills haven't always avoided controversy. [size=78%] [/size]

[Mark_Fine]

Played it several times.  You must be a property owner to be a member. 

[Steve Lapper]

Played it several times.  You must be a property owner to be a member.

Mark,


   That is absolutely not true. I have several friends who are members who do not, and have never, owned property anywhere close to the club's grounds. Maybe that'll be a condition going forward, but was not the case as of last season.

[Tom_Doak]

Played it several times.  You must be a property owner to be a member.

If this were true then what would the controversy be?  Raising dues on property owners would be pretty much the same as raising dues on members . . . I guess there might be a few property owners who are NOT golfers but it seems less likely at The Bear's Club than most places.

[SL_Solow]

No offense but this type of commentary is speculation at best.  Absent a review of the relevant documents, none of us have any idea about the merits of this case.  The fact that someone filed a lawsuit is essentially meaningless.  Having been involved in the liquidation of several golf course/housing developments, the rights and duties of the parties are invariably specified in the organizational documents. Where real problems arise is when, notwithstanding the documents, the economics don't work.  If homeowners who are not members are required to pay for golf course maintenance, battles of the type described often arise, particularly where the homes do not turn over and there is less interest in golf as the resident population ages.  The course assessments which initially were a source of pride become a burden.  I know nothing about the particulars of this case and refuse to speculate.  I intend to watch as it develops particularly because this is a high profile property.

[Kalen Braley]

I can't say I'm a big fan of Jack, comes off as a bit of a bit cocky holier than thou... but when you're the GOAT I guess that's expected.


But his group's policy does seem to make sense.  If everyone's property values go up because of the course and its namesake, why shouldn't the non-club property owners kick in a little bit...just as long as thier portion is priced "fairly".

[Mark_Fine]

I have two very close friends who are members.  The one specifically told me he needed to buy property there to join the club.  I have a shared home in HHI and have thought about joining Long Cove.  The same goes there.  I would need to buy a house or a lot to be able to join.  Maybe something has changed, but that was the case at The Bear's Club.  Once you are in, however, then you are in. 

[Mark_Fine]

Something must have changed because I just texted my one buddy who belongs and he said you don't?  Haven't reached the other one yet to see what he knows.  It is not an uncommon rule though about being a property owner to belong to the club.  It could be that by being a property owner it guarantees you can join vs having to go through a process if you aren't. 

[Mark_Fine]

Just confirmed, the "fast" way to get in is to buy a house or a lot if there are any left otherwise you go through a waiting list/formal process! 

[Steve Lapper]

Just confirmed, the "fast" way to get in is to buy a house or a lot if there are any left otherwise you go through a waiting list/formal process!

Mark,


  With all due respect, you must be talking to someone who is looking at another club or on the imaginary wait list at Bears. I spoke with three members who all confirmed it once had property ownership as a prerequisite years back but it is no longer the case whatsoever.


  Furthermore, implicit in both Sheldon and Tom's posts, the current Nicklaus controversy has much to do with salvaging his immediate reputation and localized stature at the club as it does with the stressed economics of the place. I agree with Sheldon that we have none of the facts....and all of the speculation. And with Tom, I agree raising dues is raising dues.


 Don't forget the premise under which the club was founded. In the hyper-competitive Palm Beach golf market there are literally dozens of clubs to look at. Jack went into partnership with a few select guys to build "his place" with the goal of attracting a tony crowd of CEOs, Celebrities, Touring Pros and other well-to-do folks. It was launched under the premise of being uber high-end and exclusive but quickly realized it needed more members to reach economic sustainability.


 Post 2008-09, it opened it's membership to near anyone willing to plunk down what was a reasonable initiation, and obligate themselves to significant yearly dues. Two of my golf buddies took advantage of this...neither of whom ever owned property anywhere in Florida. Others, who did live nearby and had belonged to other clubs (i.e. Trump Jupiter, Banyan, Dye Preserve, etc...) plunked down and joined. A good number of these enjoyed it at first only to later demur and eventually leave. Now, a good number of Michael Jordan's golfing buddies have left, or will be once his new club is ready.


  Lastly, while easily the "Bel-Air" of Palm Beach for celebrity sightings, that panache has worn off quite a bit....some of the PGA pros going elsewhere...and stories of 6 hour member-guests, and cart posses playing through without asking still resonate in that neighborhood. My speculation is that some of this is playing no small role in Jack's putsch.