Opportunity at Machrihanish ?

[Niall C]

The recent fire at Machrihanish appears to have destroyed the clubhouse which will no doubt be causing great anguish to the members. Hopefully the club is insured and has enough funds for the rebuild.

While the fire is ghastly I wonder if it hasn’t presented an opportunity to relocate the clubhouse and therefore tweak the course to good effect. Presently the remains of the clubhouse are situated across the public road from the putting green and pro shop.

How about relocating the new clubhouse to the ground south of and adjacent to the 17th green ? The 17th would then become the 18th with the 1st becoming the 18th and so on. As the pro shop would be attached to the new clubhouse and you would be doing away with the existing pro shop building and putting green. That would then allow the new 1st (existing 18th) green to be moved back on to the table land where the putting green is which is where I believe it once was. The new 2nd (current 1st) tee could then be extended back and to the side. The new 18th (existing 17th) green could also be pushed back a bit if required to make the closing hole that bit more of a test.

Pro’s;

•   Improves the finish to the round
•   Tee shot for current 1st no longer feels like hitting from behind the shed
•   Clubhouse/car park and new putting green all adjacent to 1st tee and 18th green as well as 9 hole course.
Con’s

•   Need to re-arrange the 9 hole course (although that could also be an opportunity !)
•   The club would no longer have a claim to having the best opening hole in Scotland however in mitigation it possibly would no longer be in the running for the most disappointing finish to a top Scottish course.

Thoughts ?

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Frank Pont and I discussed these issues in some depth a couple of years ago. We concluded that you'd be flat out insane to change the first; even if you think (as I do) that the hole is somewhat overrated because the terrain approaching the green isn't very exciting, no-one could possibly argue that the tee shot is Machrihanish's iconic attribute. To get rid of that would be stupid.


However there is no doubt that the finish is a letdown. The easiest way to deal with this is to combine holes seventeen and eighteen to create a finishing par five (it would use the corridors but it doesn't necessarily need to feature either seventeenth tee or eighteenth green. Plenty of space to build something good and to use bunkers and a bit of terrain to set up an interesting strategic challenge.


This leaves you short a hole and the best solution is a new par three at the far end of the course. There is a perfect opportunity between the present eighth and ninth to create an iconic short hole with its green right at the water's edge, and really not interfering with the walk at all.


We discussed this in outline with the club, but so far nothing has come of it.


Adam

[Jeff Schley]

Niall this is all assuming they have a sufficient insurance settlement correct to properly relocate the clubhouse, then capital funds for course improvements?

[Niall C]

Adam

Like you I think the first is not what it was. It has been greatly weakened by technology and not just the length the ball now goes. I recall the first time I played it and using an old persimmon driver or one of the small headed early metal woods and it was a frightening prospect. These days with the bigger headed drivers it is easier to get the ball airborne and it also carries further as well. The net result is you no longer have to try and pick your line based on how much carry you dare to take on and instead just bang it as far down as you can.

As an aside on the approach, going back to that first time I played there, I had driven to the right of the fairway playing it safe, which left me a 5 iron (!) approach to a pin position on the lower right hand side of the green. I recall looking to land it just short of the green and there being a slight depression about 10/15 yards short of the green just about where I wanted to land. That was enough to make the shot both tricky and interesting. The next time I was there some 10 plus years later I went looking for that depression and couldn't find it. I don't doubt it was there but I suppose it isn't obvious unless it's in your way !

That all said, I wasn't really looking to change the essence of the hole, just looking to expand the tee somewhat and in doing so hopefully allow for the opportunity to set the tee back a bit. It probably wouldn't completely (or at all) address the issue with the drive I describe above but walking off the previous green (I envisage a flattish green with subtle contours bleeding in to the adjacent tee) and stepping onto that tee would be a big improvement compared to playing from the back of the pro shop (IMO of course). And as discussed the rep as best opening hole in Scotland is dubious at best so personally I don't have an issue renumbering it.

The real win for me would be the finish. Breaking up (and improving) what are possibly now the two least interesting holes on the course (present 17th and 18th) is the obvious thing to do in my eyes. Each on their own are inoffensive enough, but having them together and then to compound matters having them as the last two holes is a real weakness. I don't really think joining them up as a par 5 addresses that even if it allows you to create a hole elsewhere on the more interesting land. I think it better to finish with a strong par 4, maybe offsetting the drive to the left and moving the green further back and more into the dune on the right while at the same time adding a bit of length to the hole. 

Niall

[Sean_A]

I am with Adam here.  First it would be wise to explore other parts of the course for a 17th hole replacement and leave #1 alone.  Regardless of tech, its still an iconic opener and still has the power to intimidate...much more so because its the opener.  The proshop adjacent to the tee is not in the least an issue. 


Truth be told...nothing has to be done to the course, but I agree that if done right, this fire may be a great opportunity to build a better house.


Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean

As I said, not really altering the present 1st as such, but really only renumbering it. Do you think it important it stay as the 1st hole ?

Niall

ps. with regards to new golf holes on the more interesting land, it occurred to me that there might be an opportunity to use the land/holes south of the 18th as a beginners/kids course and then use some of the more interesting land in the middle of the course for additional/replacement holes for the 9 hole course. Assuming they were par 3's or shortish par 4's with some funky lay of the land type greens they could leave quite a light footprint, similar to Mach Dunes.

[Duncan Cheslett]

As I said, not really altering the present 1st as such, but really only renumbering it. Do you think it important it stay as the 1st hole?

I have yet to make the trip to Machrihanish, but from a marketing and PR point of view I would say that it is vital that the course retains its iconic opener as its first hole.

Machrihanish relies on attracting golfers to make a long journey. Being famous for having the most spectacular opening hole in golf is integral to this. If the same hole was played as the second 90% of the magic would be lost. It would just be another hole played over water.

Whether or not the hole is in reality as good as it is hyped up to be is irrelevant. It is the hype that keeps the punters coming.

The club would be throwing away its main USP if they made changes to the running order. That would be crazy.

[Adam Lawrence]

Dunc's right, as I said earlier. You would be flat out insane to throw that away.

[jeffwarne]

Interesting comments.


I honestly can't say I've ever mentioned, or heard mention by my fellow travelers AFTER a trip, of Machrahanish's opening hole.


Given the dearth of great finishing holes on Scotland's links, it's hard for me to see how changing would hurt Machrihanish's routing (other than the pro shop is already by the first tee)


I don't see the change happening though, given the proximity of the Ugadale Hotel and Cottages to the current first tee

[Robin_Hiseman]

Niall's suggestion is worthy of consideration and I expect the locals are having the same thoughts. The road is rarely that busy but crossing the street is not ideal and this is a time to at least consider the option.


It strikes me that a new clubhouse could be built on the opening hole of the 9-hole course and still maintain 18 as the closer. This would entail a long march to the 1st tee, but it's nothing they are not used to when playing the 9-holer or using the practice area. One can also imagine golfers would leave their trolleys back down the fairway and stride up with just driver (and a spare ball in hand). It would be quite the talking point to take the walk with just the one ball! I expect this location would incur the wrath of the homeowners along the main road, because it destroys their clean view across the links and for that reason alone it may be discounted.


Building a new CH up towards the 17th green would involve a lot more work on an entrance drive and would bisect the flow of the 9-hole course, but would give them more options with regard to the layout of the buildings. The added distance from the road may less offend the neighbours too. Quite a lot of work to reroute the 9-holer but nothing too arduous.


As to saying the 1st would become only 10% of the hole it is just because it is changed to the 2nd is frankly a bit daft and devaluing to the argument behind the claim, because the statistic has no credibility. Ballybunion moved their clubhouse from one end of the links to the other and it was fine. Walton Heath will do the same when they relocate and it will be fine too. Woburn was designed around a clubhouse in a completely different spot and that seems to have worked out OK. The Mach members have an enforced opportunity to look at the bigger picture and only they can decide if the iconic stature of the 1st hole as a 1st hole is a dealbreaker. If it is, then the options are limited...and that is fine too.


I'm sorry for them all to be facing this trauma, but hopefully they are adequately insured and will, in time, emerge with a superior building and facilities. As Sean said, it wasn't the greatest of houses.

[Jon Wiggett]

I too think Niall's idea has merit. It makes much more sense and I would suggest it should be the members who are considered not the visitors. So the iconic first tee shot becomes the iconic 2nd tee shot, big deal!!! Is the 16th at Cypress less iconic because it is not the opening one?


Logistically moving the clubhouse makes sense.

[Duncan Cheslett]

But the tee shot at the first at Machrihanish is famous largely for the simple reason that it is the opening hole.


No-one is suggesting that the hole - or indeed the course - would be diminished in any way by altering the running order. The marketing capital however, undoubtedly would be diminished.


For a club which must depend for its very survival on enticing visitors to make a long and expensive journey to the back of beyond, sacrificing the cachet of having the most spectacular opening shot in the world of golf would be a risky move.

[James Brown]

Is anyone here a member there?  Just curious for a dose of reality from someone with knowledge of their real situation.  I would imagine they are just trying to get through the winter and doubt they have near the cash on hand that many other Scottish destination course have  to build a new clubhouse before the endless insurance process completes or even think about that until they get to something like a normal place.

Just feels very awkward to imagine a member reading this thread without some empathy for the immediate difficulties.

But I would agree that in the end they will have an opportunity to consider some new beginnings.  Wouldn’t change that first hole for anything.  It’s a holy site. 

[Duncan Cheslett]

I know nothing of the local politics or the relationship between Mach GC and the Mach Dunes operation, which apparently owns the Ugadale Hotel next door to the burned out clubhouse, together with the old clubhouse, which has been turned into a pub.


Surely though, there is now a good deal of co-dependence between the two clubs. It is difficult to imagine a golf tourist making the journey to the Kintyre peninsula without playing both courses and staying overnight - more than likely in Mach Dunes owned accommodation.


Has the Ugadale Hotel opened its doors and offered the use of its facilities or those of the Old Clubhouse pub to Mach GC members and visitors as a temporary clubhouse? It would seem the obvious thing to do.


The next obvious thing to do - politics, personalities and details of the insurance settlement notwithstanding - would be to make the arrangement permanent.


I can't imagine that the clubhouse has ever been much of a profit centre for Machrihanish Golf Club, or ever could be with the hotel where most visitors are staying right next door.


But what do I know?

[Jon Wiggett]

Duncan,


I had always assumed that the TEE SHOT was famous for being one requiring a carry over the beach but obviously not. If it is as you say for being the OPENING HOLE then surely any first hole will do   

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan,


I had always assumed that the TEE SHOT was famous for being one requiring a carry over the beach but obviously not. If it is as you say for being the OPENING HOLE then surely any first hole will do 

You're entirely right. I have amended my post accordingly. 

[Niall C]

Re the marketing worth of "the best opener", I doubt you hear that much anymore outwith magazine articles and adverts placed by the golf club. It's become a bit of a cliché that probably no longer holds any water, albeit it is still a fine hole.

I'd also suggest it is a long way to go for just one hole and I tend to think the quality of the rest of the course has a bigger bearing. Either way if you thing back 25 or 30 years ago, Machrihanish probably enjoyed a similar eminence (at least in Scotland) that Dornoch or North Berwick has now and I don't think you can say that at all now, so clearly it's losing ground irrespective of the "best opener" tag.

Niall

[Niall C]

No-one is suggesting that the hole - or indeed the course - would be diminished in any way by altering the running order. The marketing capital however, undoubtedly would be diminished.

Duncan

How about the marketing capital of a redone improved course, not to mention an upgraded 9 hole course taking in more of the dunes land, and then you can throw in a kids course ? The tag line of "best opener" would disappear but you can't say with any certainty that the "new improved offer" as the marketing boys would say, would be any less potent. I've got to think the people at Mach Dunes would love it but as Jon says it's really what benefits the members that counts.

Niall

[Niall C]

Is anyone here a member there?  Just curious for a dose of reality from someone with knowledge of their real situation.  I would imagine they are just trying to get through the winter and doubt they have near the cash on hand that many other Scottish destination course have  to build a new clubhouse before the endless insurance process completes or even think about that until they get to something like a normal place.

Just feels very awkward to imagine a member reading this thread without some empathy for the immediate difficulties.

But I would agree that in the end they will have an opportunity to consider some new beginnings.  Wouldn’t change that first hole for anything.  It’s a holy site. 

James

I believe Frank Pont was a member but not sure if he is now.

Re funds for any rebuild, I've got to think they had building insurance in place. Yes, it takes time but so does planning permission etc and no one is suggesting they can or need to start building straight away. In very general terms the cost of building a clubhouse will be broadly the same whether they build it on the existing site or where I suggested. There will obviously be costs incurred in altering the course(s) but that would be mitigated by doing the work in-house as far as possible and by selling the site of the existing clubhouse.

Niall

[Marty Bonnar]

Website says they have arranged alternative changing and catering facilities ‘nearby’!, so I’m assuming it’s the Hotel:
http://www.machgolf.com/
F.

[Thomas Dai]

Thinking purely in golfing terms, would it be cool if the 18th green were located where the current Proshop-1st tee-putting green are? There’d be a burn to consider in playing into such a greensite too.
Writing rather hypothetically of course, as otherwise the road, the buildings, any folks on the beach etc etc need consideration.
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.4236577,-5.7310157,18z/data=!3m1!1e3
As to the current unfortunate circumstances, I wish the club all the best in rectifying matters and hope the staff are okay in terms of both health and employment security.
Atb

[Niall C]

Thinking purely in golfing terms, would it be cool if the 18th green were located where the current Proshop-putting green are?

David

That was basically what I proposed in the OP. Unfortunately words don't work nearly as well as diagrams. I did once draw something up on google maps but being a techno numpty I wasn't able to post.

Niall

[Ari Techner]

I am a member and I am in Machrahanish right now for a 2 week trip. I got here right after the fire. I know we did have good insurance and that everything is very early and no plans have been made or any high level discussions had yet that I know of. I have not heard any talk of changing the course or moving the clubhouse but as I said this basically just happened. I will update everyone as I get anymore info.

[Frank Pont]

James

I believe Frank Pont was a member but not sure if he is now.

I am a member of Machrihanish, and have been for the last 20 years or so.


Have contacted them several times in the past to offer my advice to the club, but have never had a response.
I guess that means they were not interested.


Which is odd for a Scottish club given that I do not charge a fee to clubs that I am a member of.....

[Niall C]

Frank

Having been a member at several Scottish clubs and familiar with many more and the general club scene in Scotland, I can well believe you didn't get a response. I don't necessarily think that indicative of a lack of interest in the course (although it doesn't say a lot about there manners if they don't at least acknowledge the offer) but more a recognition that there is no impetus to make changes. I'd suggest that's fairly typical. Most clubs are relatively happy with what they have although show me a club member who doesn't have the odd grumble about conditioning and I'll show you a member of Augusta National.

Conditioning aside, the lack of interest in making changes is both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it means a lot of really cool holes/courses/features haven't been buggered about with but also a curse because it often means that clubs aren't alive to opportunities to improve their course.

Niall