[Mark_Rowlinson]

Reading Duncan Cheslett's post about the loss of Sandilands Golf Club set me thinking about the greatest loss in golf. There are a couple of courses which hosted US Opens in their day. Lido? And we now look to be losing Montrose. Old Prince's is a shadow of its former self. So, too, Felixstowe Ferry. Of course, there is Biarritz. Which courses do you most regret losing?

[Joel_Stewart]

Good question. 


The Lido is probably the biggest loss for golf in the US. The ruination or annihilation of Augusta National has set golf back decades as well.

[Thomas Dai]

Would have been interesting to experience a whole bunch of 1939 courses that weren’t the same after 1945, not only seaside but inland too.
Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

I spent my high school years at Fort Meade in Maryland. There were two courses  and three great pros. Carl Rasnic was the head pro, Bill Sporre was an assistant, and Lou Graham (US Open winner 1975) was another assistant. They were great guys to be around. I played every day in the summer. I worked on the grounds crew at 5AM and played from 2:00 til dark. Mr Rasnic was a like a second Dad and I played and kept in touch with him til he died. I saw Bill til he retired. Lou was off and on to the TOUR and lost touch with him. They were idyllic days and they helped me grow up.
The courses closed in 2012.

[Tom_Doak]

A few of my own courses are gone and anyone in this business must learn that's the nature of the beast.


The only one I really miss is High Pointe.  That was the only course where I shaped all 18 of the greens myself.  I hope one day I have the time to build another one like that.

[Tommy Williamsen]

A few of my own courses are gone and anyone in this business must learn that's the nature of the beast.


The only one I really miss is High Pointe.  That was the only course where I shaped all 18 of the greens myself.  I hope one day I have the time to build another one like that.

Interesting thing about High Point was that I played it before I had seen anything other than "normal" parkland, tree lined courses. I played HP about a dozen times. I disliked it the first half dozen times. Then I began to understand better how to play it. Then it became fun. Do you think tht HP was so different from other northern MI courses that it suffered?

[Tom_Doak]

 I played HP about a dozen times. I disliked it the first half dozen times. Then I began to understand better how to play it. Then it became fun. Do you think that HP was so different from other northern MI courses that it suffered?

That might have been a factor.  Lots of people come to northern Michigan to play golf in the woods, and it wasn't all in the woods.  Plus, as you say, it wasn't "all right in front of you," it took some time to learn it.  But that is true for lots of my courses, and it hasn't hampered the others.


The other factor is that it was poorly managed.  I think they had six different superintendents and four or five golf professionals in their twenty-year-run, not counting years when they didn't have a PGA pro, or one year when they didn't have a superintendent ... just a "head mowing guy" !


But really, its demise had mostly to do with the client dying just before the recession, and the son not really wanting to make an effort to make the place work through a difficult stretch.  Had that transition happened five years earlier, or five years later, I'd guess the course would still be there.

[Sean_A]

I only have personal experience of one course of quality which is now gone...Annapolis GC just outside of Annapolis.  When I played this 9 hole C Banks gem circa 1995 the course was badly down on its luck with bunkers filled in etc.  Even so, it was plain to see there was something special about the place.  I don't believe the school which purchased the land has been able to build the planned athletics field.  What a great shame.   

Ciao

[Ira Fishman]

Plum Tree National in Illinois is my saddest loss. A very reasonably priced public that was interesting, challenging, and fun.


But sometimes they do come back. My folks took us to Bedford Springs for a week vacation 45 years ago. It was a wonderful course even though I knew nothing about architecture or the architects involved. When the resort went bankrupt, I was sad. But now it is back and on our list for a long lost return visit.


Ira

[Tommy Williamsen]

I only have personal experience of one course of quality which is now gone...Annapolis GC just outside of Annapolis.  When I played this 9 hole C Banks gem circa 1995 the course was badly down on its luck with bunkers filled in etc.  Even so, it was plain to see there was something special about the place.  I don't believe the school which purchased the land has been able to build the planned athletics field.  What a great shame.   

Ciao

Wow, I didn't see that one coming. I thought it was a shame that the course had been dead years before it closed.

[Craig Disher]

The loss of the Lido was consequential in many ways. If it had survived in close to its original form, it would have been considered one of the top five courses in the US. Personally, the loss of Beechtree was extremely sad. With its semi-rural location I thought it would be safe forever from real estate development.

[Scott Warren]

Ashlar Golf Club in western Sydney. Was turned into housing in a landswap that led to Stonecutters Ridge being built.


Architecturally, you lost a course probably outside the Aus top 200 for one inside the top 50 so a massive winner, but I had so many teenage memories tied up in the place -- junior pennant golf, high school golf, family games -- that I was really sorry to see it go.

[Jon Cavalier]

Is it true that we are about to lose Rock Spring? Be a shame to see another Raynor/Banks lost to time.

[Tom_Doak]

The loss of the Lido was consequential in many ways. If it had survived in close to its original form, it would have been considered one of the top five courses in the US.

I don't think that is likely.  We all have put it on a pedestal here, but it had issues.


The course was so tight there was zero room to lengthen or expand it, so it would still be a 6500-yard course or whatever it was then.  And the original 8th hole would have washed away three or four times in the last eighty years, so I doubt it would be the same, even if the course was financially healthy.  I suppose Lido might be ranked where Fishers Island is now, but maybe not because it didn't have as much water exposure, which is of course the #1 criteria for rankings success.

[David_Tepper]

The ongoing saga of the Vern Macan-designed San Geronimo course in Marin County continues. The course closed, to be turned into a park/open space, at the end of 2017. Due to some litigation, the course reopened 3 months later.

At the moment, it looks like the course will close again at the end of this year. The future of the course beyond December 31 is very much up in the air.

[Britt Rife]

I still get a pain in the pit of my stomach when I think of two we lost here in Maryland: Doak's Beechtree, which I only had the opportunity to play once, and that was 3 weeks before they closed forever, and Banks's Annapolis Golf Club, which was my weekly.  Ugh.

[Joe Bausch]

I still get a pain in the pit of my stomach when I think of two we lost here in Maryland: Doak's Beechtree, which I only had the opportunity to play once, and that was 3 weeks before they closed forever, and Banks's Annapolis Golf Club, which was my weekly.  Ugh.

Many Philly golfers miss Beechtree. Fun place and an easy 1 hour drive down I-95.


A photo album for those interested:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Beechtree/

[Richard Fisher]

In the British context, the lost courses I detect most love for have been Bramshot (a particular favourite of Henry Longhurst), the New Course at Addington (ditto), the old 9-hole course at Frilford Heath, and the legendary seaside nine holes of the Royal Isle of Wight GC at Bembridge. The estimable Missing Links has an ever-increasing archive on these

https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/

and I know that whole GCA threads have been devoted to this theme in the past. Personally, I would have loved to have seen the 'proper' nine holes of the Merionethshire Golf Club at Fairbourne ( a founding club of the Welsh GU), extending right out on to the spit opposite Barmouth, and since 1939 Rhyl GC has sadly lost half its holes (and thus its pre-war welsh championship status). It's also a great shame that neither of the courses at Towyn or Dyffryn on the coast between Harlech and Aberdovey has survived either: one fun, short, accessible seaside course would add greatly to the already strong offerings of what Bernard Darwin would have known as Merionethshire.

I went past Potters Bar in the Cambridge - Kings Cross train yesterday. Already a melancholic and forgotten air over the course that, inter alia, was good as a pub quiz question: identify the Hertfordshire golf club to which Tony Jacklin was attached when Open Champion of both Britain and the USA?

[Craig Disher]

The loss of the Lido was consequential in many ways. If it had survived in close to its original form, it would have been considered one of the top five courses in the US.

I don't think that is likely.  We all have put it on a pedestal here, but it had issues.


The course was so tight there was zero room to lengthen or expand it, so it would still be a 6500-yard course or whatever it was then.  And the original 8th hole would have washed away three or four times in the last eighty years, so I doubt it would be the same, even if the course was financially healthy.  I suppose Lido might be ranked where Fishers Island is now, but maybe not because it didn't have as much water exposure, which is of course the #1 criteria for rankings success.

I was thinking that in terms of its design, natural appearance - although completely manufactured - and its high visibility it could have been a bellwether for gca following WWII. We know where that went. If it had survived the development around Lido Beach would have been quite different.
The 8th was saved from further erosion by the cabanas that were constructed along the shore. The new hole was a shadow of the original but at least it continued as golf hole with no further damage until the course was abandoned. Except for a couple of holes the lack of water views might have caused it to slip in the ratings. I can imagine the reviews.

[Kalen Braley]

  I suppose Lido might be ranked where Fishers Island is now, but maybe not because it didn't have as much water exposure, which is of course the #1 criteria for rankings success.

Tom,

I never really thought about that, its a slow day at work, so I went thru the top 50 in the US from GD and found:

17 of the top 50 are near large bodies of water or have water in play on most holes like Victoria National.
22 of the top 50 are on sandy sites (As best as I can tell)
22 of the top 50 are at venues where the either the PGA plays regularly, on major rotation at least semi-regular, or was a tour stop for several years like Castle Pines.

Perhaps expand to top 100?

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:


I haven't looked lately, but back when I was editing the GOLF Magazine top 100 in the world, sixteen of the top 20 were built on sand.  All the links courses in the world rankings skew the numbers there ... pretty much every new course that's made the top 100 is by the water, except Sand Hills and Ballyneal.   (Everywhere from Barnbougle to NZ to Cabot to Cabo to Castle Stuart to South Cape in Korea.)

[Michael Whitaker]

  I suppose Lido might be ranked where Fishers Island is now, but maybe not because it didn't have as much water exposure, which is of course the #1 criteria for rankings success.

Tom,

I never really thought about that, its a slow day at work, so I went thru the top 50 in the US from GD and found:

17 of the top 50 are near large bodies of water or have water in play on most holes like Victoria National.
22 of the top 50 are on sandy sites (As best as I can tell)
22 of the top 50 are at venues where the either the PGA plays regularly, on major rotation at least semi-regular, or was a tour stop for several years like Castle Pines.

Perhaps expand to top 100?

Kalen - do the same for top 100 in the world.

[Greg Smith]

Lido is the obvious answer (for the US);  I am thinking Charles Alison's Timber Point is really a big loss too.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The two that came to my mind are already mentioned: The original Timber Point and The Addington New.


Count me down as one that always wondered whether the legend of the Lido would have stood up to modern scrutiny.


I always was intrigued to know how the “between the wars” Turnberry compared to the rebuilt one.

[Niall C]

Ally

Re Turnberry - prior to CKH's 1938 redo of the Ailsa, the early 1920's Braid redo of the Kintyre course was supposedly just as highly rated or even higher rated than the Ailsa, and that was without the benefit of the sea holes. Apparently the greens were quite adventurous. It was completely destroyed by the war whereas the Ailsa got off comparatively lightly. of the two I think I'd have most liked to have seen the Kintyre course. At least with the Ailsa, most of the landforms are still there so you have an idea.

One other I'd loved to have seen and that is the nine hole course on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne. I came across a plan of the course in an old mag and last year I took the opportunity to stop off and have a quick look at the land it was on and it was wild. I doubt it would have been great but I'm sure it would have been great fun.

Niall

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