Roger Rulewick and Pointe O' Woods

[David Wigler]

Guys,

I will be honest about two things before I start this thread:

1. I have never seen Yale
2. I have never seen any of RR's work in person

That written, I have been told by a well informed source that RR has started a bunker renovation project at Pointe O' Woods.  POW is a RTJ course that has been in the top 100 since lists were conceived.  In my mind, this might mean that RR is a solid choice, as he clearly gets RTJ's work.  POW is a terrific course that could be great with some tree pruning.  They are working bunker by bunker and expect to be completed by the end of next year.  Is RR a good choice?  Can he improve POW?  What are your thougths?

[T_MacWood]

If I'm not mistaken RR did Whatchacallit Nat'l in NJ, RTJ Int'l in DC and the RTJ Trail. He seems to do vintage RTJ bunkering very well...so based on that he's probably a good choice....the logical choice.

[David Wigler]

In the back of my head, I reached the same conclusion Tom.  This might be the perfect example of Different Horses for Different Courses.  RR might be death to Raynor but very sound with RTJ.

[GeoffreyC]

David

I agree with Tom. The third nine at Metedeconk National in NJ blends in very nicely with the first 18 credited to RTJ (but probably done by RR anyway).  Its a good course and RR would probably do OK. Either way they should be very clear with a master plan to direct a modernization or a restoration. Without a Master Plan they could be surprised by what they get.

[David Wigler]

Geoffrey,

I got the impression that there is no master plan but they are trusting RR.  Is this always a bad thing or are certain architects capable of doing it when they know the work as well as RR probably knows RTJ.

[GeoffreyC]

David

I would certainly defer to the experts but it seems to me that it's always prudent to have a Master Plan. The membership can then examine the proposed work and ask if that is wahat they want done.  Seems to make sense to me.  What happens if Point of Woods turns into a Raynor course when they were expecting a RTJ?  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think having a Master Plan as opposed to is better for several reasons. One the whole board or greens comm knows of the plan and approves it. More often than not if the architect is running with the ball, only a point person is dealing with him, ie super or a key member or both. The architect is in the service business and does not want to act unilaterally. This allows one man's vision to run and often run amuck. Two, any changes are viewed within a greater scope with a master plan. I hope there is a master Plan here for POW is a very good course and should be to maintained and to evolve intelligently.

[Mike_Cirba]

Yes, I just imagine that it might be very difficult for Rulewich to shift gears after creating such pristine, accurate, historically inept...er uh..adept....Raynore bunkers at Yale to then have to go back and try to do RTJ's style again.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

According to Roger, most don't understand that this is the way Yale looked, despite all of the construction photos and data that HE has uncovered. Never mind the fact that acclaimed historians and writers have proved him wrong.

If the many qualified people that have tried to warn him of some fault, you would think one would have the intelligence to step back and see where the error is being made--or is he just that head strong?

And what's the old saying--"pride cometh before the fall?"

[David Wigler]

Tommy and Geoff,

I kind of knew that this thread would allow some to take additional (And probably legitamate - as I stated, I have never seen Yale) shots at RR but that really was not my intent.  I am asking an honest question - Given what you have seen of RR's work at Yale and other places, is he capable of doing a solid job at POW or are they going to be going through the battle that Yale is currently?

[GeoffreyC]

David

Where did I take pot shots in this thread?  I said that I think he can do this project.  I also said that a Master Plan would be a good thing to have to make sure the members know BEFORE HAND what they are supposed to get as a product. Without a Master Plan, the architect can hand wave with the shapers   and give you whatever he wants.

I think Mike Sweeney started a thread a few weeks ago about Glen Head (?) CC on Long Island where RR did some work. Those bunkers looked OK and Mike thought he could do a good job on certain types of projects including RTJ's work.

[David Wigler]

Geoff,

I meant that Tommy took a shot not you.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David,
Sorry for the ruination of your thread. God forbid I turn it into a football or Rush Limbaugh thread that had nothing to do with golf architecture.

The point is that anytime this man's name comes up I can't think of but one thing--the horrible work he is overseeing and actually doing (his construction firm) of Yale Golf Club. It's a hard and bitter pill to swallow, but there are so many that don't care what the work looks like, or how it changed the intentions of the original architect. It will still hold many long drivers and still provide the warm and cozzy feeling that makes many sleep well at night. I stay wide awake after my nightmares.

Let him screw all of the RTJ courses up he wants. (I have no problem avoiding them) Just leave Yale in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, as well as respects the history of what this special place has meant to the Game in America.

[David Wigler]

David,
Sorry for the ruination of your thread. God forbid I turn it into a football or Rush Limbaugh thread that had nothing to do with golf architecture.

Tommy - I do not believe that you are ruining the thread and I certainly was not getting personal.  Here is what I wrote "I kind of knew that this thread would allow some to take additional (And probably legitamate - as I stated, I have never seen Yale) shots at RR but that really was not my intent."

I was simply trying to get honest input on if RR was capable of helping POW.  I have no issue with you taking shots at RR.  I was honestly curious if you felt he could help POW.

[Will E]

David,
I think Rulewich worked directly with RTJ Sr. for over thirty years. His working on POW is probably about as logical as Pete Dye working on Crooked Stick. With that in mind, the lack of a master plan is not that much of a concern. I'm sure the work done on POW will be wonderful.
I share Tommy's thoughts though that Rulewich is destroying any positive thoughts I had towards him with his destruction of YALE. I'm not sure how different Yale is now than it was when I played it in the early 90s. Then it was an absolute treat, run down as it may have been, it still seemed huge and awesome. The placed reaked of CBM. That's how I will remember it.

[Paul Richards]

David:

Point O'Woods is one of the really fantastic courses that is an easy drive from Chicago - when you coming to visit?

That being said, it needs to lose a few trees.  But I cannot assess whether RR is the right guy - I just know that if he really worked with RTJ for so long, it may be the best choice available!!

[George_Bahto]

Roger did a wonderful job at Metedeconk with the 3rd nine on his own and I would think it was his work not RTJ on the original 18 - this is a very find golf course.

His own design at Ballyowen here in NJ is one of the fine new courses in the state.

I called him when I first played it three years ago and told him so.

He is perfect for the RTJ courses - he designed many of them.