Le Golf National - Let's talk setup for the Ryder Cup

[Jeff Schley]

The week is finally here.  French golfers smile and delight.  I admit I hadn't heard of Le Golf National until it was awarded several years ago the Ryder Cup 2018.  However I like the mission of the course which is to grow the game in France, focusing on youth programs as well.

Anyway...... we all will get many good looks at the course and specific holes in the coming week.  I took this from their renovation back in 2014/15:

After the European PGA Tour awarded it the Ryder Cup in May 2011, the French Golf Federation made good on its promise to upgrade the Albatros. According to Paul Armitage, general manager of Le Golf National, nearly €8 million was spent on course renovations, mostly done in 2014 and 2015.Chief among the changes was lengthening several holes, including the three par 5s. The course is listed at 7,234 yards for the Ryder Cup with a par of 71. Other notable updates:
• Creation of a lake, intended as part of the original design, in front of the par-3 11th hole, replacing marshland that had dried up.
• Redesigned greens on the first and 16th holes to allow for more pin positions.
• Enhanced drainage to meet the requirement that the course can open within three hours after any significant rain. That's an attempt to prevent a repeat of the Monday finish at Celtic Manor in Wales in 2010.
• Reconstruction of all bunkers to include concrete bases.
• Cosmetic alterations also were made throughout the surrounds of the course. Fescue was added on several holes, and wood railroad ties were installed around several lakes. "The greens were sort of falling into the water previously," Armitage says.


NOT a links course by any stretch and have to say the seawalls around the lakes remind me of Medinah without the trees of course.  The overwhelming thing that stands out to me is the sheer volume of holes where water plays a factor 10 in all, with 6 on the back 9.  The closing stretch will feature some balls get a rinsing for sure. Pretty flat and plenty of H20.


What do we think of the course from a setup point of view? 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Here’s an entirely unbiased assessment from a Mr McGinley.




https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/ryder-cup/this-is-the-best-team-europe-have-had-paul-mcginley-37342831.html


"I am a great believer in the examination paper, and I think the golf course is one that will suit us," McGinley said.


"It's one that we know very well. In my view, there are only four holes where the big hitters can unleash the driver because the holes are naturally narrow and there is nowhere to hit driver.
"I really think home advantage has been illustrated again. You look at the last 10 years of the Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup, Solheim Cup, I think 90pc of the matches have been won by the home team.
So there are a lot of factors in our favour. We have a golf course we have been playing since we all came on tour and we have our strongest team we have ever put out with a lot of players showing some really good form, including the world No 1.
 
 
 
 
You are not going to see guys shoot seven, eight-under par in their matches. A lot of matches are going to be won with scores around par because it is a very difficult, demanding golf course. It is not a course you are going to play on the front foot. You are going to have to play a little on the back foot because you are playing for position all the time."

[Niall C]

Tony

He was giving the same spiel in the Sunday Times. Apparently Americans don't know how to rein it in when required 

Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

Yes I understand that The Irish Independent are struggling these days and have let go of all their Windsurfing correspondents, so they buy articles in.


Are you suggesting that Mr McGinley is giving some old blarney as team cheerleader? Shurely shome mistake!


PS I dont think I've seen it mentioned, but can anyone recall the name of the player who had to stand by and watch in 2002 when "Ginners" sunk the putt that ensured victory for Europe. I bet Sky can and are preparing to show it a lot in next few days.




( I will add I like the guy a lot. and there's this to remember (from Wiki).
 "In the [2006 Ryder Cup at The K Club in Ireland, McGinley famously offered a handshake and conceded a 20-foot putt for a half to J. J. Henry on the 18th green of his last day singles match because he feared his opponent might have been put off when a streaker ran across the green.")

[Ben Stephens]

Here is a photo I just received from a contact - the 1st tee at Le Golf National from quite high up in the stands. Its gonna be crazy and rather noisy come Friday morning 





Isn't it like the 1st hole at the K Club where a few players hooked their 1st drives into the water 

[Niall C]

Tony

I'll take a guess and say it was Steve Stricker ?

As for McGinley, I'm not a fan and not just because of his football team, but because the way he ducked out of giving autographs at the Open. Anyway, regarding his comments, yes you're probably right. Acting as cheerleader for his pals.

Niall

[Jeff Schley]

Quotes from players on setup:

Rory McIlroy: "you get punished if you hit it off-line"

Webb Simpson: "it is one of the hardest Ryder Cup course that I've seen"

Justin Rose: "This week, you're going to see a lot of holes won with par"

Jon Rahm: "every single shot you have out here at Le Golf National is tense"

Tommy Fleetwood: "You have to hit a good shot or you're in trouble"

Bubba Watson: "it won't be driver"

Francesco Molinari: "It's a strong, tough course"

Jordan Spieth: "I don't think you'll go anywhere else where you'll see as many fist-pump pars"

Phil Mickelson: "it's a wonderful test of golf"

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,


Interesting comments.  If the course is as tough as they say it is, it could be an advantage to play 2nd.  So you can play conservative if the other guy hits it in the gunch and know they won't be able to hit thier next anywhere near the green. Maybe you layup now and go with the 4 iron 2nd shot from the fairway.


Can you elect to play 2nd if you win the hole?

[Greg Clark]

This event seems to usually come down to who putts the best.  I'm guessing the setup will include slower greens than the Americans are used playing on.

[Cal Seifert]

Can't believe how loud the Americans were cheered for in the opening ceremonies.  Can't imagine the Europeans will be treated like that at Bethpage


The official Ryder cup website has a nice course tour.  Lot of water off the tee.

[Tim Leahy]

I dont think setup has a  big effect any more. Most Euros play on the PGA tour and played golf in American colleges. Unless a ground game is required it is even.

[Amol Yajnik]

I dont think setup has a  big effect any more. Most Euros play on the PGA tour and played golf in American colleges. Unless a ground game is required it is even.

For the "width and angles" crowd it's going to be a bad week.  Average fairway width is about 25 yards per Justin Leonard.  Combine that with high rough and there will be very few drivers hit this week off of the tee.  Get it in play and then try to get close to the hole with the approach shots.


Obviously not the architecture pedigree, but I get a TPC Sawgrass vibe from this place.

[Thomas Dai]

Having watched numerous videos, photographs and heard interviews etc with those directly involved, I have nothing but admiration for the staff, their organisation, the agronomy, the technical developments/equipment plus the substantial time and effort put in 24-7 for quite a while now by many, many, many employees and volunteers. The set-up looks immaculate and manicured with tremendous attention to detail.
But...I am far from convinced that this type of immaculate, manicured set-up, like that seen at a certain event that takes place every April in Augusta, ultimately benefits the game as a whole. The era of 'over-set-up' has been with us a while now and it seems to be expanding.
atb

[Tony_Muldoon]

Pace of play seems more than acceptable - certainly compared to (the admittedly wet) K Club and Celtic Manor.


Credit to the planners and course design? 


One of the things you don’t see on TV are the huge entourages that are inside the ropes.  Until they’ve all funnelled from the previous green to the landing area to spectate, noting happens. Its very slow, yet they played this morning at 4.30 to 4.45?

[Steve Kline]

I’ve only watched about 30 minutes of the coverage and this course seems to be everything I hate in architecture and setup. It looks like the last place I would ever want to play.


And, with this narrowness, this is a course at a facility for people to learn the game? I’d go find something else to do.

[Adam Lawrence]

And, with this narrowness, this is a course at a facility for people to learn the game? I’d go find something else to do.

No it isn't. What gave you that idea?

[Steve Kline]

I thought I read that in an article about the facility.

[Tim Martin]

 Newly installed PGA of America CEO Seth Waugh said Le Golf National reminds him of a TPC course which in his mind is obviously a virtue. There is so much water that driver is effectively taken out of the players hands on many holes. Didn’t I just see Phil Mickelson hit an iron off a par 5?

[Thomas Dai]

I recall when the course first opened and the French Open was played there, as it has been most years ever since. It was brown and bouncy then and many of the mounds and higher ridges were covered in gorse. It was quite often referred to as an inland links. Very different to the green and lush course we’re now seeing (even with ‘now’ being in Sept).
Atb

[Niall C]

Newly installed PGA of America CEO Seth Waugh said Le Golf National reminds him of a TPC course which in his mind is obviously a virtue. There is so much water that driver is effectively taken out of the players hands on many holes. Didn’t I just see Phil Mickelson hit an iron off a par 5?

At 7 down maybe he was just trying to make sure he found the fairway ?!

Niall

[Tim Martin]

Newly installed PGA of America CEO Seth Waugh said Le Golf National reminds him of a TPC course which in his mind is obviously a virtue. There is so much water that driver is effectively taken out of the players hands on many holes. Didn’t I just see Phil Mickelson hit an iron off a par 5?

At 7 down maybe he was just trying to make sure he found the fairway ?!

Niall

Niall-I think he was only 5 down at that point.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Who can explain it, who can tell you why?

Fools give you reasons, wise men never try.

[BCrosby]

I don't recall a Ryder Cup where one team won all matches in a session and none of matches were even close.


Bob

[Adam Lawrence]

I thought I read that in an article about the facility.

It was designed to be the permanent home of the French Open. You don't typically need spectator mounding for sixty thousand people on a beginners course 

[Steve Okula]

Regarding the green speeds, yesterday the French Golf Federation posted on their web site that the greens were being kept to a little over 10 ft. on the stimpmeter, as per the request of the European captain, and judging from what I saw on TV yesterday, they looked to be about that. Apparently, Bjorn thinks that favors his guys. I know all the European team play more on the U.S. Tour, but maybe he figures they learned to play on slower greens so they can adapt better.