Pebble Beach US AM setup vs. US Open setup

[Jerry Kluger]

What do you guys know about the setup at PB for the US Am as compared to what it will be next year for the US Open?  I don't believe that they can stretch it out anymore than it is so it is a question of fairway width, rough depth, green firmness, etc.

[Amol Yajnik]

From what I have read, USGA is going to use this week as a test for next summer.  I played out there on Friday, the last day before the course was shut down for the Amateur.  The greens were fairly firm and fast, but there was only one green that I thought was a bit much and that was due to pin position (back right on and I doubt they use that in the tournament.  I did not think the fairway widths were very penal, I hit 9/14 fairways and I'm not a good driver of the ball (erratic 6 handicap).  As far as the rough goes, there were places where I could play out of the rough and other places where hitting anything more than a wedge was a challenge.  I have a feeling that they won't touch the rough from what it was at when I played it.   I played Spyglass the day before and thought the rough was worse there than at Pebble, but I'm guessing it was because Spyglass will only be used today and tomorrow whereas Pebble will be all week.  Take this with a grain of salt, but the caddies I talked to thought that Spyglass would play 3 strokes harder than Pebble over the next 2 days.


USGA is going to use the alternate tee on 10 during the match play rounds at some point, the tee right next to the 9th green, to make it about a 320 yard hole to try to make it a drivable par 4.  I have my doubts on whether that is feasible for a stroke play round next year, but should be fascinating for match play.

[Rob Marshall]

I played both under everyday conditions from the back tees and thought that under those conditions Spyglass was much harder than Pebble.

[Amol Yajnik]

FWIW, yardages on the card of some holes:
#2: 501 yard par 4
#9: 522 yard par 4
#10: 492 yard par 4
#17: 219 yard par 3

[Matt_Cohn]

I spent the weekend down there. Both courses are set up hard but not US Open hard. Rough at Pebble is maybe 3+ inches, greens are definitely firm and fast but not to US Open levels. All the tees are the back/US Open tees, including 9 and 10 at 525 and 495. Hole locations are US Open type, give or take. Notably, the fairways at Pebble have not been narrowed to US Open widths. They are still at resort widths. The rough at Spy is a bit longer but same general idea.

[Pete_Pittock]

The field of 64 will be made at either +2 or +1 based on first round scores (73 at +1 or better). They are smokin' em in CA

[Matt_Cohn]

And don't worry about the length on 9 at 525. The US Junior champ hit 9-iron in yesterday.

[Pete_Pittock]

What do I know about cut lines. Looks to be +4 and a playoff of 24 players for one spot.

[Amol Yajnik]

What do I know about cut lines. Looks to be +4 and a playoff of 23 players for one spot.

I can't imagine how long it's going to take to complete that playoff tomorrow morning.  I'm guessing they'll start it somewhere on the back nine while the round of 64 matches that are already set will start on the 1st tee, given that the only match that isn't finalized yet is the 1 vs 64 match.  Of course, if they were to start it on 8 or 9, they would weed out a lot of players pretty quickly.

[Matt_Cohn]

What do I know about cut lines. Looks to be +4 and a playoff of 23 players for one spot.

Double the first round projected score and add 1. It's weird that it went up 2, but it only did so just barely.

[Matt_Cohn]

What do I know about cut lines. Looks to be +4 and a playoff of 23 players for one spot.

I can't imagine how long it's going to take to complete that playoff tomorrow morning.  I'm guessing they'll start it somewhere on the back nine while the round of 64 matches that are already set will start on the 1st tee, given that the only match that isn't finalized yet is the 1 vs 64 match.  Of course, if they were to start it on 8 or 9, they would weed out a lot of players pretty quickly.

They'll probably start on 17, the par-3. They shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 birdies, so it shouldn't take too many holes.

[Pete_Pittock]

What do I know about cut lines. Looks to be +4 and a playoff of 23 players for one spot.

I can't imagine how long it's going to take to complete that playoff tomorrow morning.  I'm guessing they'll start it somewhere on the back nine while the round of 64 matches that are already set will start on the 1st tee, given that the only match that isn't finalized yet is the 1 vs 64 match.  Of course, if they were to start it on 8 or 9, they would weed out a lot of players pretty quickly.

They'll probably start on 17, the par-3. They shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 birdies, so it shouldn't take too many holes.

Spot on. Playoff will be in groups of four, starting on #17 at 7:30. Players in first group will probably have to wait close to an hour before proceeding to play 18

[Pete_Pittock]

Guy in third group birdies 17th. Last of the 24 players also birdies, so just two trek to the 18th. Bogey wins against triple bogey.

[Matthew Petersen]

Guy in third group birdies 17th. Last of the 24 players also birdies, so just two trek to the 18th. Bogey wins against triple bogey.

And those were after both guys hit great drives in the fairway. They kid who made triple had less than 210 in for his second shot but pulled it and it clanked off the ocean wall.


Very nervy 18th for a couple of guys who had just made birdie on one of the toughest par 3s anywhere.


That's match play for ya.

[BHoover]

I recorded the first round of match play and am watching it now. Besides the perfect weather, the course looks spectacular. The greens appear to be both firm & fast and nowhere near as splotchy as I remember them looking during the 2010 US Open. Hopefully someone from the USGA can take a photo of the course setup this week and use it when setting up the course next June.

[Matt_Cohn]

A couple of up tees this morning — 5 at 141 and 10 at 373, which I believe is the tee by 9 green — though I don't know what hole locations they're using on those two greens.

[George Pazin]

I apologize if this was covered and I missed it, but did they soften the 14th green? That slope running through it doesn't look as pronounced as in the past. I haven't watched the last few Pebble pro-ams, so I may have just missed something from awhile ago.

[Kalen Braley]

They rebuilt the entire 14th green George.  Supposedly the front part is pinnable again.


Other than that, I haven't heard if its "better or worse", but since the pros supposedly like it better, i'm guessing worse

[George Pazin]

Damn... destroy an epic green to find more pinnable space at today's green speeds. That's nauseating.

[Jon McSweeny]

Damn... destroy an epic green to find more pinnable space at today's green speeds. That's nauseating.

I am not a big fan of the change, but I don't think this is completely accurate. The front of the green had become so steep, green speeds were largely irrelevant. They could have replaced the green with shag carpeting and you would have still had trouble getting a putt to stop within three feet of the hole given the severity of the slope.
As someone who is there once or twice a year, the severity really added to the course IMO. I miss getting to the top of that hill and seeing the challenge I was left with. In terms of day-to-day operations however, it basically rendered 1/3 of the green as useless in terms of hole placement. Given as much, I think the change was a reasonable decision- even if I don't like it.

[Peter Pallotta]

George, Jon - another topic for another day, and for posters much smarter than me:

But while I think I understand the 'pin placement' practicalities (especially on a busy course), I wonder why these changes always seem to focus exclusively on the hole/pin itself. I mean: okay, the severity of the slope on 14 means you can't *putt* it and can't putt to the *hole*; but that same severe slope likely made all the pitches and chips and approach shots and long putts to *back* pin placements more interesting and fun etc.
Which is to ask: in some kind of cost-benefit analysis, when is it better to have fewer hole locations and potential holes to putt to for the sake of the many *other* kind of golf shots to and on the green?
P

[JESII]

This would have been one in my opinion...

[Matthew Petersen]

They had the hole on 14 back right yesterday, basically on a part of the green that didn't exist prior to the renovation. It was an interesting hole location. The front right is still quite steep, probably not usable as a hole location. I saw one player land a wedge in the long grass past the hole and his shot had enough spine on it that it came all the way off the green and well back into the fairway.


I think the issue wasn't totally so much that the front right side was so steep that it was unusuable, again, that still seems to be the case. The issue was that left them with a usable green that wasn't a whole lot bigger than a dining room table. By extending the green to the back right and adding hole locations over there, it takes a lot of stress off the top left portion of the green, which was previously basically the only place you could put the hole.

[Jon McSweeny]

http://flipbook.pub/pebble-beach/newsletter/fall-2016/

Link has some info from the club's perspective. Seems to line up fairly well with Mr. Petersen's comment.

My recollection- based on two visits since the change- was that the front would be "pinnable." Such appears to be wrong. More proof I don't spend enough time on the golf course.

Another link with a video of the changes.
https://www.pebblebeach.com/insidepebblebeach/how-to-play-the-daunting-14th-hole-at-pebble-beach/

[Matthew Essig]

Didn't Tom oversee the changes on 17? Did he also oversee the changes on 13 and 14?  My guess is he might have a pretty good understanding of what was modified.