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Anthony Gholz

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2020, 01:04:31 PM »
Drove by last winter many times on Lahser  Road.  The view a half mile across the course is spectacular with all the Hanse determined trees down. The clubhouse stretches across the hilltop.  Went past yesterday and everything is in full swing.  Fairways and bunkers reworked everywhere.  Greens ripped up and in stages of rework.


For those of us from Detroit who consider OH South "our" major course it is a BIG deal.


Anthony

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2020, 05:35:25 PM »

For those of us from Detroit who consider OH South "our" major course it is a BIG deal.


Anthony


For those of us (originally) from Windsor, too, Anthony  ;)
jeffmingay.com

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2020, 12:02:13 AM »
I had missed the post about adding a creek at the 7th.


If Tom Fazio had proposed adding a creek to Oakland Hills, I suspect the reaction would have been different!  Especially from Tommy N.


Tom, when I was researching Oakland Hills as well as doing renderings for the club, as noted the creek was there, so I guess I missed my chance to bag on Gil!  Now, if he would have added Fazio-like recirculating water in that creek, then I think Gil would be the first to know I’d be calling him on it!  Funny though, I’ve never had to call him on much, but he does know I hold him to a higher standard! (As you have noted and I take that as a compliment!)😎😃


Below is the original, my rendering and the finished ‘grow-in’ photo taken earlier this evening.  Gil, Jim Wagner, Kye Goalby, Blake Conant & Ryan Farrow have done some truly magnificent restoration here, but more, kudos to the club for taking that step forward!






« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 12:07:43 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

Geoff_Shackelford

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2020, 12:11:20 AM »
Tommy,Do you know if this Oakland Hills creek will be as beautiful and gushing as the one Tom Doak left in at his Bel Air restoration?  ???

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2020, 01:39:38 AM »
Stunning!  What a golf hole...

Brent Carlson

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« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 10:52:46 PM by Brent Carlson »

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2020, 11:22:13 PM »
Some photos from Monday's Media Day




First the overview from Hanse's website


Oakland-Hills-Master-Plan-BW by Carlsson10, on Flickr]Carlsson10, on Flickr


Ross plan 1929 I believe; does not include his 1948 update plans


IMG_0842-2 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#7 restoring the creek (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


Det News #7 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#9 from the tee; trees removed (crainsdetroit.com, Kurt Nagl)


Crains #9 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#9 from the green (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


DetNews #9 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#10 (mlive.com, Mike Mulholland)


Mlive #10 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#11 green, views restored (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


DetNews #11 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#11 green (mlive.com, Mike Mulholland)


Mlive #11 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


From #17 green (crainsdetroit.com, Kurt Nagl)


Crains #17 Green by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


#18 green (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


DetNews #18-2 by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


PrecisionAire (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


DetNews Sub Aire by Carlsson10, on Flickr]


Hanse (detnews.com, David Guralnick)


Hanse by Carlsson10, on Flickr][img




I'm looking forward to seeing how work progresses over the next year. 


Cheers
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 11:51:47 AM by Brent Carlson »

Jeff Schley

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2020, 11:40:52 PM »
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2020, 08:49:49 PM »



Hanse's speech from Great Lakes Sports Publications ([size=78%]http://glsp.com[/size])


https://youtu.be/djYbOGjq2nM



Josh Bills

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2020, 12:41:33 PM »
Here are a couple 1929 aerials to compare.  Not many trees at all.






Anthony Gholz

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2020, 11:55:36 AM »
Interesting that the final bunkering of #2 green in the field today is identical to the Ross diagram as opposed to Hanse's design rendering.  The #7 fairway bunkering is also to have 3 bunkers left vs his rendering's 2.  These may be minor, but certainly not accidental.  It will be interesting to see whether more Ross bunkers and further changes creep in as they move along.  The aerial view of #7 in today's Detroit Free Press, with the original creek roughed in, is exactly as I played the course as a kid in the early '60's, before the new Jones' green was built.  It appears also that the Jones' green is being abandoned.  At least I hope so.


Question: with all this bunker liner and precise irrigation, will the bunkers have any "wild" 1914 flair to them, or will it all be precise edges as Olympia Fields shows this week on TV?  IE. will there be fescue as they had experimented with in the last Rees J reno?

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2020, 03:32:25 PM »
Interesting that the final bunkering of #2 green in the field today is identical to the Ross diagram as opposed to Hanse's design rendering.  The #7 fairway bunkering is also to have 3 bunkers left vs his rendering's 2.  These may be minor, but certainly not accidental.  It will be interesting to see whether more Ross bunkers and further changes creep in as they move along.  The aerial view of #7 in today's Detroit Free Press, with the original creek roughed in, is exactly as I played the course as a kid in the early '60's, before the new Jones' green was built.  It appears also that the Jones' green is being abandoned.  At least I hope so.


Question: with all this bunker liner and precise irrigation, will the bunkers have any "wild" 1914 flair to them, or will it all be precise edges as Olympia Fields shows this week on TV?  IE. will there be fescue as they had experimented with in the last Rees J reno?


The rendering shows two greens on 7th, presumably both the restored Ross green and the RTJ green. Are they planning for 7 to be an alternate green hole?



Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2020, 05:34:32 PM »


The rendering shows two greens on 7th, presumably both the restored Ross green and the RTJ green. Are they planning for 7 to be an alternate green hole?



I believe Tommy said there will only be one green.  The other will be graded.

Ryan Farrow

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2020, 07:22:03 PM »
In regards to #7, the RTJ green is gone, only the restored green will be left. The bunker edges are stacked fescue sod, as they age, they will start to break down a bit and get a little hairy so those smooth lines will fade away with time, same concept as Merion.  The bunkers were very simple back in the early days, we had a great video of the '41 ryder cup that  showed some pretty cool detail of irregular edges, i'm sure they evolved into that form through neglect.




Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2020, 07:39:03 PM »
In regards to #7, the RTJ green is gone, only the restored green will be left. The bunker edges are stacked fescue sod, as they age, they will start to break down a bit and get a little hairy so those smooth lines will fade away with time, same concept as Merion.  The bunkers were very simple back in the early days, we had a great video of the '41 ryder cup that  showed some pretty cool detail of irregular edges, i'm sure they evolved into that form through neglect.


What's the process for stacking fescue sod for bunker edges? How many layers in the stack on average?
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2020, 07:49:01 PM »



Like Anthony said it's promising that they are bringing back even more original features than Hanse's plan shows.  #7 looks great with the pond removed.  Even the green side tree that is shown in the plan has been removed.  Below is the photo Anthony mentioned:


(Photo: Oakland Hills Country Club)


Oakland Hills #7">

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2020, 11:14:46 AM »
I'll bump this thread when I discover something rather than start a new one. 


I just reviewed aerial photos of the South going back to 1937 and the bunkering of the 13th green, to the left in the photo above of #7, is identical to that of Ross's for the 1937 Open.  Not like the Ross drawing from Klein's book.  Another example of Hanse duplicating Ross bunkers at the green rather than reinventing Ross.  That takes an ego reduction to say Ross got it right in the Golden Age and it can't be done better today.


The 13th green still has the famous thumbprint as per Ross.  Hanse changes to the green surface must be very subtle or not at all.


Anthony

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2020, 11:51:08 AM »
Nice observation Anthony. 


Have a look at #3 green in the aerial.  It appears to have bunkering more in line with the '29 sketch than Hanse's website plan.  This project appears to be a truer restoration than originally planned.

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2020, 02:03:03 PM »
Interview with head pro Steve Brady on the restoration:


http://www.foregolfersnetwork.com/the-oakland-hills-south-renovation/

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2020, 11:02:32 AM »
This is a question more for someone (super?) who understands grasses, something I understand in concept but have no clue as to the reality. 


I've just reviewed a few more recent drone pics of the South and noted the clear indications of where the new fairway contours are located vs the old.  Mostly regarding increased fairway widths in member play areas as well as opening up a couple green fronts. 


My question is in response to WFW narrowing of fairways for the Open.  Will these fairway mowing lines on the "new" South be appropriate for any championship?  Ie will they be left as is with increases in rough height and green speeds the only tweaks for a tournament?  Part of the question has to do with grass types.  Are the fairways and roughs different grasses with different irrigation heads and therefore can't be just mowed lower or higher at will?


My main point would be: wouldn't it be wonderful that the mown areas would be the same for all occasions?  for Bryson or for my (less professional, lousy) golfing ilk.


Thanks in advance for any clarification.
Anthony

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2020, 11:33:05 PM »
It's likely that the fairways will be bentgrass, and the mown rough will be kentucky bluegrass, along with fescue bunker faces. No, you can't just buzz bluegrass down to a bentgrass fairway height without it looking nasty. And you can't grow bent up to rough height without it being a terrible mess. So those fairway/rough parameters will be in place unless the club uses sod to replace fairway with rough for the US Open or something. At that level of a property, whether it's OHCC or WF everything is on a separate irrigation program. So you would have heads covering the fairway throwing in along the perimeter, and heads along the rough perimeter throwing out. So arbitrarily moving fairways around and shrinking/expanding would create irrigation headaches.


Grass types like fescue or bluegrass can be maintained both at fairway and rough height, but fescue struggles with cart traffic, and fairway bluegrass has to be maintained at a higher height of cut and is less aesthetic than bentgrass (although it can be a fine fairway surface).


I think DeChambeau has made landing strip fairways and nasty rough irrelevant, so hopefully OHCC is getting reasonable fairway widths and they'll be left alone.


But I wouldn't bet on it.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2020, 11:17:06 PM »
Below are a few more aerials of the work being done at Oakland Hills South.  It looks very close to the original Ross.  On 18 the bunkers on the outside of the dogleg are gone.  Green side bunkering is the original Ross.  The skyline green on 15 will be very cool.  Are the Jones centerline bunkers on 15 staying? 


Once fescue grows in the vistas will be a visual treat.  Happy for the club





[size=78%]OH Aerial[/size]




OH 10 - 18 Aerial




OH 18 Green Aerial


Ben Stephens

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2020, 03:38:00 AM »
Already looks miles better that the Joneses versions


The bunkers are more spread out rather than in clusters. The 50-70 yard short bunkers looks like they are aimed at DeChambeau's rocket drives

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2020, 11:55:53 AM »
Thanks Tom B for your very clear answer and information.  Made lots of sense.  I, too, hope the widths don't change for any tournament!

Brent Carlson

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Re: Oakland Hills approves South Course renovation by Gil Hanse
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2021, 11:11:34 AM »
Andy Johnson (The Fried Egg) has posted some photos of the restored course.  What stands out to me is the restored width, green expansions and more natural shaping.  Cart path appears to have been removed.  #7 (the original creek was restored) looks to be a big improvement.  He also hints at the US Open returning.


https://twitter.com/the_fried_egg/status/1407838011879047169

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