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David_Tepper

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Make An Offer!
« on: June 26, 2018, 06:20:07 PM »
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David Stamm

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 08:18:02 PM »
The one in Oceanside is El Camino CC.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

jeffwarne

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 08:20:11 PM »
They seem to be partying like it's 1999...
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2018, 08:43:50 PM »

Woodinville,WA -probably Bear Creek CC


Portland, OR - Oregon Golf Club


Albuquerque, NM -OOPS   Tanoan is another 27 hole facility and more likely because of ownership group.   Please delete any mention of the course I deleted
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 01:38:33 AM by Pete_Pittock »
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David_Tepper

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 08:54:57 PM »
Does anyone know if these courses are all owned by the same company (and if so, what company is it)?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 09:22:58 PM »
A quick google search revealed El Camino, Oregon and Bear Creek are owned by American Golf.


Concert Golf may be interested in some.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 09:33:01 PM »
The two in Palm Desert are Palm Valley and Monterey.
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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2018, 09:41:00 PM »
Hard to believe Oregon GC is offered at that price.  It might be worth that much as land for real estate.  It is located in a tony neighborhood.  The course is very hilly, a really hard walk.  I would guess that less than 10% of the rounds are walked.

I don't understand how these properties are valued, unless they are priced as potential land for houses. Otherwise, if an investor paid $10 million for a golf club, what kind of return in profit would be expected?  5%, 7%, 10%? 

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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 10:00:29 PM »
American Golf also owns Monterey and Palm Valley. Paa Ko Ridge in NM is NFS but nearby Tanoan CC is another American Golf property.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 10:10:28 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

B.Ross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2018, 10:23:45 PM »
continuing the american golf corp trend, i'm going to surmise that the one in thousand oaks is sunset hills, and the one in simi valley is wood ranch.
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 10:36:44 PM »
"I don't understand how these properties are valued, unless they are priced as potential land for houses. Otherwise, if an investor paid $10 million for a golf club, what kind of return in profit would be expected?  5%, 7%, 10%?"

John Kirk -

A cap rate is quoted for each property. That gives you an idea of what level of income the property is generating.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalizationrate.asp

DT
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Nick Ribeiro

Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2018, 10:55:10 PM »
I am pretty sure the NM property is Paa ko ridge. It was for sale in the past. Great place just not very easy to get to.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 10:57:29 PM »
I'm assuming the course in Contra Costa county is either Mira Vista or Discovery Bay?
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Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 11:16:16 PM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on June 26, 2018, 06:20:07 PM
10 Western U.S. Private Golf Courses For Sale:

https://my.rcm1.com/handler/modern.aspx?pv=iGtz7aNPqK6d6cP0aioZZqYkVu26JeJ7o6lDscv0Xos#_top


Homage to the great courses of Scotland
With numerous lakes streams and creeks!!!
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astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2018, 11:16:29 PM »
Quote from: Nick Ribeiro on June 26, 2018, 10:55:10 PM
I am pretty sure the NM property is Paa ko ridge. It was for sale in the past. Great place just not very easy to get to.


Somebody bought Paa Ko earlier this year and jacked up the rates. There are several rumors about it including that it may go private at some point.


Steve is probably right in his earlier post. Tanoan is the only other course that would meet that description.
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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2018, 11:25:43 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on June 26, 2018, 10:57:29 PM
I'm assuming the course in Contra Costa county is either Mira Vista or Discovery Bay?


I was guessing Shadow Lakes.
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Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2018, 11:29:00 PM »
Just computed our market value based on the cap rate formula.  No wonder I'm so gloomy.  I wouldn't sell it for that.  Our water rights are worth more than that.  A lot more.  OK, not news to me that I'm in a crappy biz, so I'll keep on believing there's more to life than mere money.  The golf biz is like farming.  When a farmer won the lottery and was asked what he was going to do with the money, he said "Well, I guess I'll keep on farming 'til it's all gone."  Shit, I'm a farmer too!
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 11:52:37 PM »
More American Golf in CA :


Sunset Hills in Thousand Oaks and Wood Ranch in Simi Valley.


Canyon Oaks in Chico and Oakhurst in Clayton


That about does it.


Perhaps American Golf read or knew about the article in  David Tepper's post/thread on " Repurposing"
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 01:30:04 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2018, 01:27:24 AM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on June 26, 2018, 08:54:57 PM
Does anyone know if these courses are all owned by the same company (and if so, what company is it)?




With this statement "Potential to purchase together or separately and for post-close management agreement to ensure consistent operations" it seems that they are all owned by the same entity".



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"... and I liked the guy ..."

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2018, 01:31:18 AM »
American Golf is cashing in....or trying.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2018, 05:37:19 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on June 27, 2018, 01:31:18 AM
American Golf is cashing in....or trying.


Not exactly...they are rolling off their portfolio to continue to finance DriveShack (and pay dividends back to Fortress). Ultimately, I think they fail to a large measure, on both counts.
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The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Josh Bills

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2018, 08:08:31 AM »
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John Kirk

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Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2018, 10:21:51 AM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on June 26, 2018, 10:36:44 PM
"I don't understand how these properties are valued, unless they are priced as potential land for houses. Otherwise, if an investor paid $10 million for a golf club, what kind of return in profit would be expected?  5%, 7%, 10%?"

John Kirk -

A cap rate is quoted for each property. That gives you an idea of what level of income the property is generating.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalizationrate.asp

DT
Ah....thanks.
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Brad Payne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make An Offer!
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2018, 12:37:18 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on June 26, 2018, 10:57:29 PM
I'm assuming the course in Contra Costa county is either Mira Vista or Discovery Bay?


Believe it is Oakhurst CC.  Anyone want to make an offer?  Seems like it would be fun to run our own course!  David?
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