Time to get back to architecture!

[Jim Hoak]

I think A.G. Crockett has it exactly right.  Maybe we can let this thread end with that.  Whether he should have been DQ'ed or not under the Rules of Golf is probably a close call, but it is clear you can't be DQ'ed just for being a pampered, ignorant, lying asshole!

[John Kavanaugh]

So we can all agree that he didn't cheat?

[Kalen Braley]

John,


Of course he didn't.  I don't see where he gained any advantage.  If anything he would have probably saved a stroke or even two had he just taken an unplayable...


Cracks me up how people are loosing their shit over someone who completely fooked his score card by taking that massive number...

[JESII]

Didn't cheat...just showed his ass...

[John Kavanaugh]

Didn't cheat...just showed his ass...

And in any normal world he would have paid his price.

[Alex Miller]

So we can all agree that he didn't cheat?

What is cheating?


If cheating is breaking the rules on purpose to gain an advantage then yeah I think he cheated. Is that not what happened and how he later explained it?


When other golfers break the rules and are penalized I tend to notice it is not with intent. 1-2 is basically the cheating rule and I think it should have applied. And I'm not normally a stickler for this stuff but it seems pretty clear...

[Kalen Braley]

I would love to hear how he gained an advantage.  What he did, score wise, was the worst possible thing to do there...


I can at least somewhat understand why people were upset over intentionally breaking the rules...but an advantage?  This is laughable

[John Kavanaugh]

Did Phil violate KPMG's Global Code of Conduct?


https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2018/02/code-of-conduct-2012v2.pdf

[Kalen Braley]

JK,

That's a far more interesting question than the original one for this thread!

What kind of customers are they trying to bring in with Phil being a front man? 

I suspect their prospective customers would think this "outrage" to be trivial and amusing compared to the problems in the real world....

[JESII]

Like insider trading?

[jeffwarne]

What Phil did was spur of the moment when his brain snapped as all of ours has on occasion.
He could've walked off but didn't-the USGA could've taken care of it by DQing him but they are inept and chose to keep the box office gates rolling.


What the USGA did to the course was premeditated, planned and scheduled months and years in advance-while promising not to repeat the woes of 2004.
They just bungled it.


basically during the last 5 competitive rounds at Shinnecock, they have rendered unplayable surfaces for at least 3 days ---
'04 Sunday, '18 Thursday,  '18 Saturday, and kneejerk oversofttened reactionary greens on '18 Sunday(nearly resulting in a 62 for a perfect Jekyl and Hyde Open).
Fortunately it rained Friday so they got one round kind've right.


Just wish we could've seen an icon like Daniel Berger hoisting the trophy as a reward for barely making the cut and  playing 5 hours ahead of the leaders Saturday.(amazing how the guys who BARELY MADE THE CUT could average 5 shots lower that fateful day than those who played the best the first two days)
In the UK, this can happen due to uncontrollable variables like wild weather-it should never happen because experts do stupid things to great greens because they need to justify their existence. Was the USGA surprised by an outbreak of nice weather on the east end of long island?(It was beautiful and NO ONE would call it severe -4 typical June days with even rain on Wednesday and Friday)


The problem going forward is...

I'm confident the USGA is more embarrassed by its correct preemptively wide setup of Erin Hills (worrying about seasonal high winds) and softness caused by rains...(-16 is not crazy given it was par 72 and with winds could've been around -5 or say 283).....


.....than they are about the 100% avoidable man-made 2018 Shinnecock debacle....(won with a score of 281 as they fist pump no one was under USGA par)


Erin Hills was the same as the Open Championship gets when the weather is benign.
Gettable because these guys are good-and also because of the par of 72


Shinnecock was silly-nothing like seeing lush green fairways and dead inconsistently fast mottled greens.
The opposite of actual links golf-the Irish I encountered this week were laughing about the ineptness of the setup..


Why can't for once....?
Shinnecock in all its greatness---and the players---be the story.

[Kalen Braley]

Like insider trading?

I suspect this is like driving on the local highway, nearly everyone is speeding and breaking the law... but only a few get caught, and an even smaller percentage actually prosecuted...


Even then they only go after you if you're high profile.  Martha Stewarts deal was a measly $50k...peanuts...

[Alex Miller]

I would love to hear how he gained an advantage.  What he did, score wise, was the worst possible thing to do there...


I can at least somewhat understand why people were upset over intentionally breaking the rules...but an advantage?  This is laughable

Intent was implied in my statement. It's the intent that mattered and it's clear he purposely hit the ball.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm reminded of the famous quote attributed to Napoleon:


"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake"


I'm surprised to see the Phil haters all spun up over this.  Given he clearly didn't think this thru and screwed himself even worse than if he declared an unplayable, I would have thought you guys would be laughing your asses off..

[JESII]

I don't see anyone spinning but you Kalen...

[Kalen Braley]

Oh its gotta be Phil hate...


Especially after everyone praised Speith and kissed his backside even after deliberately breaking Rule 6-7 

[Jim Nugent]

Can you get kicked out of a soccer game for an intentional hand ball?

Diego Maradona says no.

That's because the refs somehow didn't see the foul.   

Phil is right.  Soccer players who intentionally handle balls frequently get ejected.  But I hope we don't use the ethics of soccer as a standard for golf.  In soccer players often cheat, fake, dive, hold, pull, viciously foul, anything to gain an advantage.  If they achieve their goal, their teams/fans/nations usually celebrate them as heroes.   

It's ironic that later in Maradona's 'hand of god' game, he made what's usually considered the greatest run ever in World Cup football, beating half the English team to score his second goal.  If the refs had correctly called his earlier hand ball, he would have gotten a red card then, and that beautiful 70 meter or so dribble/score never would have materialized. 

If only they had VAR back then!

[John Kavanaugh]

I really don't know how to gauge outrage on social media. The one thing I do believe in is capitalism. KPMG has a financial interest in Phil. KPMG is far closer to this issue than any of us. If they are willing to continue to put their trust in Phil we should at least find the strength to forgive him.

[JESII]

Ha

[Peter Pallotta]

With each passing year, one sees more & more how important Tiger Woods was to the game. When at his best, and winning majors, the focus was always on his great golf and history-making achievements. Without him: a week later and tour pros are still complaining about the set-up/USGA, and everyone else is still discussing Phil's embarrassing moment of personal pique. Why? Because, in the absence of TW's generational greatness to admire and celebrate, there's nothing and no one compelling enough to supplant the kvetching.

I think we're actually in the middle of one of those periodic 'dead spots' in pro golf: like the one between Hogan-Snead and Palmer-Nicklaus, and the one between Watson-Norman and Tiger Woods.

[John Kavanaugh]

Peter,


How many majors has Tiger won since the introduction of the iPhone? Social media outrage is post Tiger greatness.

[JMEvensky]

With each passing year, one sees more & more how important Tiger Woods was to the game. When at his best, and winning majors, the focus was always on his great golf and history-making achievements. Without him: a week later and tour pros are still complaining about the set-up/USGA, and everyone else is still discussing Phil's embarrassing moment of personal pique. Why? Because, in the absence of TW's generational greatness to admire and celebrate, there's nothing and no one compelling enough to supplant the kvetching.

I think we're actually in the middle of one of those periodic 'dead spots' in pro golf: like the one between Hogan-Snead and Palmer-Nicklaus, and the one between Watson-Norman and Tiger Woods.

Mostly disagree but I'm giving you props for using the word kvetching.

[Peter Pallotta]

Peter,
How many majors has Tiger won since the introduction of the iPhone? Social media outrage is post Tiger greatness.

There's a touch of brilliance in you, JK, and some hint of genius in that insight. Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio is right. (When told about the reference to him, Joltin Joe said: 'Why are they asking where I've gone? I just made a Mister Coffee commercial!)

Jeff - I hope I've redeemed myself with the above!

[Mike Hendren]

Can't help but wonder: Would Phil's actions have been different had he been the leader?

If he was leading he would not have had a similar mental breakdown. What Phil did plays into the hands of the discussion of mental illness that is long overdue. That being said I thought Anthony Bourdain was in the lead.

What mental breakdown?  I thought he said it was a calculated move?

That said, I've long wondered if mental illness, however mild, affects one's golf game.

Mike

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I would love to hear how he gained an advantage.  What he did, score wise, was the worst possible thing to do there...

Only because he took two more putts after that. What if instead he had stood by the hole and tapped it in as it had gone by the hole. Then he scores an 8, when the best he could have done otherwise was to have the same putt again for a 7, and likely make an 8 or worse.

He said from down below that he had "no shot." No shot implies it will take him several strokes to get down, not that it's an easy up-and-down for 7.

And no, it wasn't planned. He snapped and lied about it after the fact.

I don't see anyone spinning but you Kalen...

Ditto. And I'm not a Phil hater. Wasn't before, am not now. I just don't like people who lie to me about golf. Or anything, really, but the only context in which I care about Phil Mickelson is golf. So he can lie to me about his gambling and I couldn't care less.