Time to get back to architecture!

[Tom_Doak]

Phil was en route to making a ten, so no one cares much about this infraction.  But what if one of the leaders did it to stop their ball rolling down the hill on #10?  Is this really supposed to be an option for the player??

[Pete_Pittock]

What are your feelings Pete?

If I was a member of the committee charged with deciding any penalty, with the facts known to me I would have voted to follow 14-5 and its 2 stroke penalty. If I was outvoted I would have accepted that decision.   As is mentioned elsewhere, John Daly did the same thing at a US Open at Pinehurst (RIP Payne). He was not disqualified then. Phil shouldn't be disqualified now. His actions did not affect any other player in the field, but I noticed the big smile on Beef's face.  My thought in the minutes after the morality play was that I might have considered declaring the ball unplayable. Phil might know the rule, but my way would have kept him in single digits.


To the person who wondered why the USGA told Phil it was a 2 stroke penalty, when Phil already knew the rule, the USGA would have no idea what was going on inside Mickelson's mind. To not advise him would have been dereliction of duty

[Kalen Braley]

If the penalty doesn't fit the crime, then maybe the USGA should change it.


But using the rules to your advantage to win a Open?  Good!
Using them to your advantage when you're in last place at the US Open?  Bad!


Absurd!!

[Pete_Pittock]

Of course Phil shouldn't be DQed because that is not what the rules called for, but that won't stop the weekly head hunters out there baying for blood.  I like that Phil took the piss and exposed some weakness in the rules (and I do think he thought his actions through prior to doing it...thinking the next damn time it comes up he was gonna pull the trigger).  I know rule heads will never buy it, but the rules as written are sometimes overly complicated and not fit for purpose. Its time for a complete overhaul rather than scratching around the edges.

Ciao

Sean,
Your wish is their command.  The complete overhaul is already announced

[font=&amp] Set for 1/1/19 (1/1/19 for non Americans.)[/font]

[Ryan Coles]

Ryan,


I'm sorry you can't see that breaking a rule doesn't mean it results in a DQ..


He broke the rule, he paid his penalty, he took it.... the rules specifically address it.


There really is no dispute...

People break the rules all the time. Usually through ignorance and the resulting penalty being to their detriment.


Deliberately breaking the rules is cheating. Mickelson cheated today and is a cheat.


No amount of tawdry ‘whataboutism’ changes that. Cheats should be disqualified.[size=78%] I maintain that the rules give the USGA the discretion to do it. [/size]


They won’t as they’re busy giving interviews as once again they’ve made themselves the story.

[Sean_A]

Of course Phil shouldn't be DQed because that is not what the rules called for, but that won't stop the weekly head hunters out there baying for blood.  I like that Phil took the piss and exposed some weakness in the rules (and I do think he thought his actions through prior to doing it...thinking the next damn time it comes up he was gonna pull the trigger).  I know rule heads will never buy it, but the rules as written are sometimes overly complicated and not fit for purpose. Its time for a complete overhaul rather than scratching around the edges.

Ciao

Sean,
Your wish is their command.  The complete overhaul is already announced

[font=&amp] Set for 1/1/19 (1/1/19 for non Americans.)[/font]

These changes, while mostly welcome, only touch at what I mean.  I seriously think it is time to start again with the rules and question intent, understandability, enforcement, consistency etc. 

Ciao

[Ryan Coles]

If Phil had kept on hitting the moving ball until it went in, would he have got 2 shots for each contact or just the 2 in total?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Social media responses here:


http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/06/16/social-media-reacts-phil-mickelsons-shocking-putting-penalty-us-open

[Terry Lavin]

He should withdraw.

[Pete_Pittock]

If Phil had kept on hitting the moving ball until it went in, would he have got 2 shots for each contact or just the 2 in total?

since he knew the rule, 2 penalty strokes for each infraction.

[Ryan Coles]

If Phil had kept on hitting the moving ball until it went in, would he have got 2 shots for each contact or just the 2 in total?

since he knew the rule, 2 penalty strokes for each infraction.

What would it take and how badly would he have to besmirch the game before you turned to 33/7?

[Mike Hendren]

Everyone seems to buying Phil's explanation that this was a calculated move.  Is he smart enough to make that determination in a split second - or did he break into a run to spot the ball and when it didn't stop he brain-f#rted? Seems like he took plenty of time to come up with a self-serving explanation to protect his persona.


Why not just admit a weak moment or dumb move and apologize.


I have long suspected Phil might just be a bit bogus. In my opinion we saw that today. Then again I'm a piece of work too.


Mike

[John McCarthy]

He should withdraw.

Wouldn't you? 


I am a terrible hacker but I have played a bit of tournament golf - the rules are known.  Everyone here has called penalties on themselves (I hope).


I get his frustration.  But own it.  W/d yourself.  Don't cheat.

[Bruce Katona]

The blazers may be thanking their lucky stars tonight as they swirl & spit their Screaming Eagle Cab that Phil did what he did - eyeballs will tune in tomorrow to actually watch what he and the field do
on the course since they’ve again made the event about them and not the actual
participants.

[Michael Whitaker]

He should withdraw.

I agree. He should come out Sunday morning, admit he made a mistake, and withdraw from the event. It’s the only way he can come out of this without some stink on his dink.

[Doug Hodgson]

I have been a fan of Phil's since his first tour win as an amateur in 1991.  I was thrilled to see him win such events as the 2013 Open and the WGC this year.  That he may have batted the ball out of frustration is human and understandable and a 2 stroke penalty would be appropriate in this case I think.  But his interview with Curtis Strange was profoundly disappointing, and must be the most disgraceful spectacle I have ever seen in my 40 years as a golf enthusiast. Knowingly violating a rule to gain an advantage?  So that he wouldn't have to bother playing out the hole? Stating that this was his intent?  Disqualification from this event is the least of the sanctions that should be imposed.  He is a bad sport.  Golf is about good sportsmanship.  He is not a true golfer. He is an embarrassment to the dignity of this great game!

[John Crowley]

Phil was en route to making a ten, so no one cares much about this infraction.  But what if one of the leaders did it to stop their ball rolling down the hill on #10?  Is this really supposed to be an option for the player??

Exactly!


Is it is ok to intentionally break a rule?


PM should withdraw tomorrow and apologize for besmirching the spirit of the game.


It is his choice of what example he wants set for junior golfers.

[Peter Flory]

It would even be more of a controversy if he deflected it into the hole. 


As it played out, it really didn't work to his advantage.  Seems like he was just sort of protesting the conditions.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

To the person who wondered why the USGA told Phil it was a 2 stroke penalty, when Phil already knew the rule, the USGA would have no idea what was going on inside Mickelson's mind. To not advise him would have been dereliction of duty

So you bought Phil's BS that he knew the rule? He told Beef he had no idea what score he got or what was going on, and was only informed of the penalty when the USGA official told him.

His post-round BS session was a lie. And then he told people who disliked what he did to "toughen up."

I don't think 14-5 applied. I think 1-2 applied, and a serious breach at that. He wanted to deflect the ball so it couldn't roll back down in front of that bunker.

The stupid thing is he could have let it roll down there and taken an unplayable with stroke and distance.

If a player on my college team did that I'd likely sit him for several matches. That's well outside the spirit of the game. Mickelson deliberately broke the rules.

It would even be more of a controversy if he deflected it into the hole.  As it played out, it really didn't work to his advantage.  Seems like he was just sort of protesting the conditions.

Yeah, consider that. What if he had moved more quickly and - with a "stroke" - deflected the ball into the hole? Would the USGA still rule that 14-5 was at play, and not 1-2, in that situation? I doubt it.

[Kalen Braley]

So whats the difference between someone who exploits the rules and someone who merely uses them to their advantage?  Is someone who uses a tax loophole to avoid paying thier employees in a specific situation an exploiter or smart?  I think there is a fair amount of gray area on this one.


P.S. The committee deemed...unanimously... that the rule explicitly covered what Phil did, with penalty, and that was that.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I think there is a fair amount of gray area on this one.

Then why make the comment you made in the postscript?

P.S. The committee deemed...unanimously... that the rule explicitly covered what Phil did, with penalty, and that was that.

Many people disagree, and have stated their reasons why. Maybe because it's a grey area. Again, I don't think 14-5 applied - I think 1-2 should have.

[Pete_Pittock]

To the person who wondered why the USGA told Phil it was a 2 stroke penalty, when Phil already knew the rule, the USGA would have no idea what was going on inside Mickelson's mind. To not advise him would have been dereliction of duty

So you bought Phil's BS that he knew the rule? He told Beef he had no idea what score he got or what was going on, and was only informed of the penalty when the USGA official told him.

His post-round BS session was a lie. And then he told people who disliked what he did to "toughen up."

I don't think 14-5 applied. I think 1-2 applied, and a serious breach at that. He wanted to deflect the ball so it couldn't roll back down in front of that bunker.

The stupid thing is he could have let it roll down there and taken an unplayable with stroke and distance.

If a player on my college team did that I'd likely sit him for several matches. That's well outside the spirit of the game. Mickelson deliberately broke the rules.

It would even be more of a controversy if he deflected it into the hole.  As it played out, it really didn't work to his advantage.  Seems like he was just sort of protesting the conditions.

Yeah, consider that. What if he had moved more quickly and - with a "stroke" - deflected the ball into the hole? Would the USGA still rule that 14-5 was at play, and not 1-2, in that situation? I doubt it.

Eric,
When I typed this the only information I had was Phil's statement. I had not heard Beef's statement. I did question what was in Phil's brain.
I watched the action as live as possible. In my opinion he waited for the ball, looked at the hole and made a stroke. Tracing my memory bank what John Daly did in the Pinehurst was a deflection. What matters was the intent at the moment. The rules contemplate that the player will be truthful. I will agree to disagree with your conclusion.

[Peter Flory]

What would have happened if he laid the pin diagonally past the hole and used it to hole the putt?  Would that also be just a 2 stroke penalty? 

[Kevin_Reilly]

Daly's angry swipe at the ball was completely different from Phil's.  Unless you don't believe Phil's post-round remarks:

https://www.foxsports.com/golf/usga/video/1257451075972

Is it not possible to have a breach of etiquette so serious that it doesn't warrant a "second chance" of another serious breach?

Amazing to me that a guy who traded on inside information and profited over $900k (the Billy Walters case...  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phils-insider-trading-escape ), and in a cavalier manner took advantage of Rule 14-5, wears the visor of global accounting firm KPMG. 

My 87-year old mom loves Phil because of his smile and outgoing personality...not so for me.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Phil was en route to making a ten, so no one cares much about this infraction.  But what if one of the leaders did it to stop their ball rolling down the hill on #10?  Is this really supposed to be an option for the player??

Exactly.


Say you're leading a tournament by a couple of shots, and a putt slides past the hole on one of the closing holes and starts to pick up pace - it looks like running off the green.


Do we really want it to be okay for the player to run round and stop the ball with his putter, giving himself a straightforward putt back at the cost of only two shots?


Totally against the spirit of the game, and clearly should result in disqualification.