First Scotland Trip: Recap!

[Brad Payne]

Brad great review!  Thanks for taking the time and uploading photos as well.  I'm off to St. Andrews this Thursday for 5 days and will try and play TOC each day and maybe hit Kingsbarns on that Sunday.  Looking forward to it and hope I get cold, wet, and windy conditions! I want authentic Scottish golf.   

Hey Jeff, hope you enjoy your trip! Wouldn’t count on cold weather as it’s been warm and dry recently. As others have said, the Old Course is incredible, but 2 rounds, maybe 3 at max is sufficient when there’s so much good golf in the area. I’d vote to head up to Carnoustie for 1 round as it will make it super cool to watch the Open knowing all the holes and that you were there just a month before. It’s only 45 minutes and believe there’s a bus that goes there. Also, you can take the train close out of St Andrews and down to Edinburgh and out to East Lothian. There’s some amazing courses there as well. Personally, I’d take the time to play a few more courses. Hope you have fun. Even though you don’t drink, watching the final round of the US Open at the Dunvegan would be fun!


Cheers!
Brad

[Jon Wiggett]

Brad great review!  Thanks for taking the time and uploading photos as well.  I'm off to St. Andrews this Thursday for 5 days and will try and play TOC each day and maybe hit Kingsbarns on that Sunday.  Looking forward to it and hope I get cold, wet, and windy conditions! I want authentic Scottish golf.   

Jon's right, of course.  You'll have 5 days in Fife and your idea of "authentic Scottish golf" is four rounds on TOC and one at Kingsbarns?  You'll be within 30 minutes of Lundin, Leven, Crail and Elie, so you could participate in the rank those courses thread.  Or you could play the 14 brilliant holes left at the Eden.  Or enjoy the New.  But you'd rather part with £280 (or whatever absurd amount it now is) to play the least authentic links in Fife?

Friendly group 
I won't have a car, staying at Rusacks and will walk over each morning to TOC.  A friend, who is Scottish, although I could ask for verification, is driving out from Glasgow to pick me up and wanted to play Kingsbarns on Sunday.  Fine with me as he wanted to play and glad to see him.  At least that is the plan.  BTW I don't drink alcohol either, so it appears the authentic Scottish experience will have to be relegated to weather, TOC, and a pseudo Scottish course.

Jeff,


whilst it is great you are seeing your friend and it is understandable why you are playing Kingbarns it was you who said he wanted authentic Scottish golf in connection with it. I would suggest as a visitor to the country you might show the inhabitants a little more respect as not all Scots are drunks or think none Scottish things are crap.

Jon if it isn't obvious, I was trying to be sarcastic with the SNL meme as a joke, as well as tongue in cheek comment that I wanted bad weather so as to get the real Scottish experience.
Nonetheless it shall be enjoyed regardless.
God bless.

Jeff,


it was quite obvious you were trying to be sarcastic (dictionary definition of sarcasm:  T

he use of irony to mock or convey contempt) It just stuns me that you think that is a defence. Perhaps you need to explain yourself more carefully instead of compounding one 'foot in mouth blunder' with the next even bigger one. 

[Jeff Schley]

While not my first trip (my 2nd actually) trip to Scotland it was quite enjoyed by me throughout.
Arrived on the 14th to old course hotel (excellent IMO btw) at 10 am and walked over to the pavillion to put my name down as it was 40-50 MPH winds that day.  Many locals ended up cancelling and I was lucky enough to wander back at 1:30 and was on the tee at 2 pm. Had a pretty good day hitting the ball, but with the wind the ball never stayed still on the greens as many of you know.  Played with 3 other singles and had drinks after with one of them. Great day and only wished my father could have made the trip to walk across swilcan bridge.  Slight brag in that I had a birdie putt on 17 from 30 feet and an eagle putt from the front edge on 18.  As I am prone to do, I 3 jacked each  .
Next day slept in and arrived at 5:45 to the pavilion and managed to be #25 on the list. The guy in front of me didn't have his handicap info documented and they didn't allow him on the list.  Came back after 2 pm and out of the blue the starter comes up and says, "are you Jeff?" Well your on the tee next!  Great.  Had a colorful caddie Nick, who says he has been there 51 years.  Most memorable moment was on hole 2 I bring out the yardage book and ask him should I hit it there?  He says, "put that f......g thing away and I'll get you around just fine."   I thought this should be fun.  Had another wonderfully enjoyable round as the wind was not nearly as bad maybe 20 mph gusts which was fine.
Third day (Saturday) TOC was closed for a local tourney and rained off and on all day long.  With my feet sore I refused to back off of my plan to play each day and walked out to the New Course.  Played with another single who was waiting and I used my waterproofs all day long for sure.  Great footjoy goretex kept me very dry.  Got the authentic scottish experience I would say with one very windy and one very rainy day.
Sunday I paid a King's ransom at Kingsbarns and had a wonderful round.  I really liked this Kyle Phillips design as I played my best golf by far of the trip with 3 birdies and 2 others I missed from inside 15 feet.  Very fun I thought and a certain change up from TOC and TNC. Caddie tips were invaluable and probably the reason I shot so well. Wouldn't mortgage my house again to play it, but did check it off any list there maybe.
Yesterday I played North Berwick and wow very windy around 30-35 mph winds made the first 4 holes a challenge to say the least.  Played with Arthur Blank's grandson (Falcon's owner) and his wife or ex wife (not sure which) was walking along the 14 year old. 3 highlights were triple bogeying the Redan, Driving to the base of the green at the Gate hole and chunking 2 chips for a 6....... and the highlight of my golfing year waiting for the green to clear on 18 without any real confidence I could do it actually.  Then flushing a 4 wood to what turned out to be 15 eagle putt.  Just didn't want to leave it short and ran it 2 feet past without hitting the hole.  The wall running through 2 fairways were very unique and I hit them both times I had to go over them. 
Glorious trip and certainly will try and work in a trip each year, like so many of you have done for years.  Also hit the Dunvegan and met up with fellow GCAer Mark Chaplin and his lovely wife Nicky.  Great to connect Mark and may you enjoy the rest of your season with many blessings at the home of golf.

[V_Halyard]

Great account of a grand trip.
Just finished a great Scottish trek that shadowed some of your route.
I would share but my accounting would pale beside your fantastic tome.
I did open a bit of a Pandora's *closet*  via Adam Lawrence's recounting of my choosing to play my high-hard-double-fade from atop the Royal Dornoch construction mound.
*”Closet” replaces a previous word.  Haha

Your tale is far more elegant.
Well done!

[Niall C]

Oh please do tell us about Pandora's crack 

Niall

[V_Halyard]

Oh please do tell us about Pandora's *closet* 

Niall

Well, as you might imagine, it is lined with gorse so is best avoided.     Btw: Upon further review, I have amended my perhaps overly colorful description.  Niall I edited yours in my quote as well.  Haha

[Andrew Keddie]

I drove within a chip shot of the green on Gate too, the ball caught the top of the wall and came back past me. 

[Sean_A]

Nice post. The Golspie par three you liked is 16 not 15.

Thanks, Jon, updated

Also, the Quarry hole at North Berwick is the 6th.  The 7th is the par-4 with the Eel Burn in front of the green.

Otherwise, it was a nice trip report.  Looks like it's been very dry in Scotland the past month or so, was that a topic of conversation there?

I'm surprised you rated North Berwick as low as you did considering how much you said you liked it.  [You even tried to speculate a reason as to why !]  This is not atypical, it's part of the reason the course has been underrated for fifty years.

Thanks, Tom. After 10 rounds some holes started running together! I think North Berwick was a lot tougher than expected as many others are more fun vs overly difficult. Playing up a tee might have helped. Also, when you only see a course once and don’t play particularly well, I think it clouds your judgement. Plus, I lost 3 balls as some of the rough was really thick.

As for it being brown, Ayrshire has definitely been getting a lot more warm sunny days than the East Lothian area. Berwick has even had tee times pushed into the afternoon due to fog a few days before I was there, while it was over 70 degrees at Prestwick. Aberdeen and the Highlands have been warm as well. Can say Carnoustie has had some rain as the rough is thick ahead of the Open.

I am sorry to hear about the rough at NB....lack of real rough was always one of the best things about the course.  I fear the course management philosophy has had more than a subtle shift.

Ciao

[Tim Gallant]

Nice post. The Golspie par three you liked is 16 not 15.

Thanks, Jon, updated

Also, the Quarry hole at North Berwick is the 6th.  The 7th is the par-4 with the Eel Burn in front of the green.

Otherwise, it was a nice trip report.  Looks like it's been very dry in Scotland the past month or so, was that a topic of conversation there?

I'm surprised you rated North Berwick as low as you did considering how much you said you liked it.  [You even tried to speculate a reason as to why !]  This is not atypical, it's part of the reason the course has been underrated for fifty years.

Thanks, Tom. After 10 rounds some holes started running together! I think North Berwick was a lot tougher than expected as many others are more fun vs overly difficult. Playing up a tee might have helped. Also, when you only see a course once and don’t play particularly well, I think it clouds your judgement. Plus, I lost 3 balls as some of the rough was really thick.

As for it being brown, Ayrshire has definitely been getting a lot more warm sunny days than the East Lothian area. Berwick has even had tee times pushed into the afternoon due to fog a few days before I was there, while it was over 70 degrees at Prestwick. Aberdeen and the Highlands have been warm as well. Can say Carnoustie has had some rain as the rough is thick ahead of the Open.

I am sorry to hear about the rough at NB....lack of real rough was always one of the best things about the course.  I fear the course management philosophy has had more than a subtle shift.

Ciao

It is true. The rough in places is wicked and for no reason. I have argued, and still argue that I don't think you need ANY rough left on 16. The angle is so bad to come into the green from there that if good players want to bail out left, away from the OB, they will be left with an approach into a green that won't hold much. I've heard the argument that the angle from the left allows the run up the bank, which is true to a certain degree, but if you're too far left then the two greenside bunkers come into play.


The whole course is genius without rough. No need to have 20 yard wide fairways. If you look at the 11th fairway now it looks ridiculous. It's so narrow that it looks well out of place in comparison with the scale of the rest of the hole, which is giant, with the dune on the left. 

[John Kavanaugh]

While not my first trip (my 2nd actually) trip to Scotland it was quite enjoyed by me throughout.
Arrived on the 14th to old course hotel (excellent IMO btw) at 10 am and walked over to the pavillion to put my name down as it was 40-50 MPH winds that day.  Many locals ended up cancelling and I was lucky enough to wander back at 1:30 and was on the tee at 2 pm. Had a pretty good day hitting the ball, but with the wind the ball never stayed still on the greens as many of you know.  Played with 3 other singles and had drinks after with one of them. Great day and only wished my father could have made the trip to walk across swilcan bridge.  Slight brag in that I had a birdie putt on 17 from 30 feet and an eagle putt from the front edge on 18.  As I am prone to do, I 3 jacked each  .
Next day slept in and arrived at 5:45 to the pavilion and managed to be #25 on the list. The guy in front of me didn't have his handicap info documented and they didn't allow him on the list.  Came back after 2 pm and out of the blue the starter comes up and says, "are you Jeff?" Well your on the tee next!  Great.  Had a colorful caddie Nick, who says he has been there 51 years.  Most memorable moment was on hole 2 I bring out the yardage book and ask him should I hit it there?  He says, "put that f......g thing away and I'll get you around just fine."   I thought this should be fun.  Had another wonderfully enjoyable round as the wind was not nearly as bad maybe 20 mph gusts which was fine.
Third day (Saturday) TOC was closed for a local tourney and rained off and on all day long.  With my feet sore I refused to back off of my plan to play each day and walked out to the New Course.  Played with another single who was waiting and I used my waterproofs all day long for sure.  Great footjoy goretex kept me very dry.  Got the authentic scottish experience I would say with one very windy and one very rainy day.
Sunday I paid a King's ransom at Kingsbarns and had a wonderful round.  I really liked this Kyle Phillips design as I played my best golf by far of the trip with 3 birdies and 2 others I missed from inside 15 feet.  Very fun I thought and a certain change up from TOC and TNC. Caddie tips were invaluable and probably the reason I shot so well. Wouldn't mortgage my house again to play it, but did check it off any list there maybe.
Yesterday I played North Berwick and wow very windy around 30-35 mph winds made the first 4 holes a challenge to say the least.  Played with Arthur Blank's grandson (Falcon's owner) and his wife or ex wife (not sure which) was walking along the 14 year old. 3 highlights were triple bogeying the Redan, Driving to the base of the green at the Gate hole and chunking 2 chips for a 6....... and the highlight of my golfing year waiting for the green to clear on 18 without any real confidence I could do it actually.  Then flushing a 4 wood to what turned out to be 15 eagle putt.  Just didn't want to leave it short and ran it 2 feet past without hitting the hole.  The wall running through 2 fairways were very unique and I hit them both times I had to go over them. 
Glorious trip and certainly will try and work in a trip each year, like so many of you have done for years.  Also hit the Dunvegan and met up with fellow GCAer Mark Chaplin and his lovely wife Nicky.  Great to connect Mark and may you enjoy the rest of your season with many blessings at the home of golf.

I hope you are working on getting that 16 handicap down.

[Brad Payne]

I am sorry to hear about the rough at NB....lack of real rough was always one of the best things about the course.  I fear the course management philosophy has had more than a subtle shift.

Ciao

It is true. The rough in places is wicked and for no reason. I have argued, and still argue that I don't think you need ANY rough left on 16. The angle is so bad to come into the green from there that if good players want to bail out left, away from the OB, they will be left with an approach into a green that won't hold much. I've heard the argument that the angle from the left allows the run up the bank, which is true to a certain degree, but if you're too far left then the two greenside bunkers come into play.


The whole course is genius without rough. No need to have 20 yard wide fairways. If you look at the 11th fairway now it looks ridiculous. It's so narrow that it looks well out of place in comparison with the scale of the rest of the hole, which is giant, with the dune on the left.

I don't mind the wispy stuff you find at places like Prestwick or Golspie, but I'm not a fan of the type of rough right of 11 at NB where you're 5 yds off the fairway and a certain lost ball.  I get it that you're not supposed to hit it there, but that's easier said than done when the fairway slopes left to right.  I think there's nothing worse in golf than losing a ball in thick rough.  Water, sure, but even in Scotland there's ball retrievers in every burn! 

[Mark Pearce]

Brad, when were you last at Golspie?  wispy is the last word I'd use for the brutal rough we saw at BUDA

[Brad Payne]

Brad, when were you last at Golspie?  wispy is the last word I'd use for the brutal rough we saw at BUDA

Oops, meant Brora!  The sheep keep that rough great.

[Mark Chaplin]

Jeff it’s fair to say you were hit with the toughest conditions of the season so far, but glad you still had a great trip and enjoyed North Berwick. This past week St Andrews had a day in the 80s with no wind although the sea mist has kept temperatures lower for most of the week. The west coast of Scotland is scorchio with temperatures approaching 90 for most of the week.


Yesterday I played an away match at St Andrews 4th oldest and certainly most exclusive club, yes the St Andrews Ladies Putting Club. 18 holes of singles followed by 18 holes of foursomes all completed in around 80 minutes.

My singles opponent didn’t line up a single putt but beat me 2&1 a score line that didn’t displease me too much. In the foursomes my partner and I were around in level twos added by an ace apiece for a 2&1 win. Great fun to play the Himalayas competitively and without queues on each hole.

[Jon Wiggett]

Brad, when were you last at Golspie?  wispy is the last word I'd use for the brutal rough we saw at BUDA

I would second your point about the rough. Best I can tell, they have recently (last three years) switched from mowing the semi rough with a reel mower which lays the grass flat after the cut to using a rotary mower which creates a vertical growth and encourages thicker bladed grasses. This has been very much to the detriment of the playability of the course.

[David_Tepper]

"wispy is the last word I'd use for the brutal rough we saw at BUDA"
Mark P. & Jon W. -
I am a little miffed about the comments regarding the "brutal rough" at Golspie. Yes, the rough between the 14th & 15 fairways (and left of the 14th fairway) is lush and juicy. That is mostly a function of the soil/ground there being meadowland rather than sandy soil. Having played a lot of golf there over the past 15 years, I can assure you that the rough I saw there last month was no worse in those areas and probably less punishing than what I have seen there in past years.

Aside from those areas, where else was the rough brutal?
Jon W. -
Regarding how the rough is now being mowed, yes, I do think the new mower the club purchased last year is a rotary machine. As far as I know, the club members are pleased with how it is keeping the rough under control vs. how the rough used to be.
If I see Muir Ross when I am back over in September, I will ask him.
DT

[Jon Wiggett]

David,


maybe brutal was over doing it and yes you have every right to defend the course. Just to be clear, I have a lot of affection for Golspie and it is my favourite course of the string found along that stretch of coast. However, it is clear to me that the semi-rough is not as playable as before. It is not just the 14th and 15th which where the rough was always a bit sticky but 1 through 6 and the 18th are also going this way. It is the result of rotary mowing.

[Niall C]

Brad, when were you last at Golspie?  wispy is the last word I'd use for the brutal rough we saw at BUDA

I would second your point about the rough. Best I can tell, they have recently (last three years) switched from mowing the semi rough with a reel mower which lays the grass flat after the cut to using a rotary mower which creates a vertical growth and encourages thicker bladed grasses. This has been very much to the detriment of the playability of the course.

So is this a function of intent or simply the budget ?

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Neither Niall,


rotary mowers are liked by many because they give a good, clean, even finish which contrasts strongly with the fairway cut giving definition. Rotary and cylinder (reel) mowers cost more or less the same though rotary are cheaper to sharpen. If you are interested in creating a good links golfing sward that plays like a links should then you have to use cylinder mowers. It is not possible to create the same with rotary as the create a thicker more upright growth and encourage the broader leafed grasses.

[V_Halyard]

I drove within a chip shot of the green on Gate too, the ball caught the top of the wall and came back past me. 

Helmet...

[Mark Pearce]

David,


Missing the green on 16 to the right almost guaranteed a lost ball.  In the wind we played in, I reckon every group lost one or more balls in that rough or spent time looking for one.  That's a brilliant hole but the penalty for missing a couple of yards right was too harsh, due to the rough.  I'm a big fan of the maintenance crew at Brora (and I recall a club as smart as de Pan has goats).  Animals are the perfect way of maintaining rough and should be encouraged!


Mark

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

You are right. The rough right of the 16th green at Golspie is severe, although the grass in the deep hollow closest to the right side of the green has been mowed down for a number of years. But short of that hollow the rough is brutal.

After playing that hole for 15+ years, I finally realized the best miss on that hole is left of the green. There is plenty of short grass there.

DT