Studying course architecture, best 10 Australian & NZ to visit

[Kevin Pallier]

Following Thomas Dai's lists for USA and GB&I - what are the best Australian & NZ courses to visit from an architectural perspective & why?

[Matthew Mollica]

Australia


Royal Melbourne West
Kingston Heath
Barnbougle Dunes
Lost Farm
Royal Adelaide
Royal Queensland
RACV Healesville
New South Wales
Cape Wickham
St Andrews Beach


New Zealand


Paraparaumu Beach
Tara Iti
Titirangi
Waipu
Nelson

[Scott Warren]

I like the Aussie list, Matt.


Only thing I might disagree on is St Andrews Beach over National Moonah. Or maybe I’d include both and drop Healesville, although it is very cool and unique.

[Jim Nugent]

Matthew, no Cape Kidnappers? 

[Adam_Messix]

Matt


Interesting lists.  I would probably add Waverly to the New Zealand list.  For those who admire land forms and how a golf course uses and works their way through them will have much to admire.  They added some small trees left of 1 that are not needed and detract from the sweep of the place, hopefully they will be removed.  Good call on Waipu, enjoyed it very much.  Would also include Kinloch but it is pretty difficult so will not be everyone''s cup of tea.  I also think both KC and CK need to be seen, for the setting alone.


Hope Ash Towe chimes in, he knows NZ well. 

[Ash Towe]

The ones already mentioned in NZ are good choices. The one that must be added is Arrowtown.

[Tom_Doak]

FWIW, the two NZ courses that will make the Gourmet's Choice in my next volume are Arrowtown and Paraparaumu.

[Kevin Pallier]

IMO - from an architect perspective

Australia:
Royal Melbourne (West) - Mackenzie
Kingston Heath - Soutar
Barnbougle (Dunes) - Doak & Clayton
New South Wales GC - Apperly
Barnbougle (Lost Farm) - Coore
Royal Melbourne (East) - Russell
The National (Moonah) - Norman & Harrison
The National (Old) - Trent Jones Jnr.
Barwon Heads - East & Morcom
Healesville - Clayton
PS: Cape Wickham - Devries & Oliver (I have not seen but have it on good authority to see)

New Zealand:
Paraparaumu Beach - Russell
Titirangi - Mackenzie
Arrowtown - Roman & Wright (correction)
PS: Tara Iti - Doak (I have not seen but have it on good authority to see)

[Tom_Doak]

Who was "Moore" at Arrowtown?  The name I've seen credited is Reg Romans, whoever he was.

[Kevin Pallier]

Who was "Moore" at Arrowtown?  The name I've seen credited is Reg Romans, whoever he was.

Tom

You are correct - typo error on my behalf and corrected above. According to the Arrowtown website Reg Roman designed the original 9 and was the club secretary. He died in 1948.

[Scott Warren]

Kev,


A bit cheeky to simply call NSWGC “Apperly”.


The lion’s share of the routing is Mackenzie’s, not to mention about half the holes, including the brilliant 7th, 13th & 14th plus the best part of the 5th.

[Mark Pearce]

If you're in Australia to study architecture, which is the hypothetical here, then you're going to hear a lot about grass (an absolute constant in my visit 18 months ago was a conversation about grass).  So Healesville has to be on the list and the visit has to be in Spring, to illustrate how a wrong choice of grass can affect great design.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,


Yes:)


Of course most golfers in Australia would laugh at the concept anyone thought the course worth a spot on the top 100 in the country.
It's a window into how many here rate the 'difficulty' and conditioning above almost everything else - and how could anything 5500 yards long possibly be any good?
That it has 4-5 holes better than the best hole on a bunch of the top 30 courses in the country passes most by.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kev,

A bit cheeky to simply call NSWGC “Apperly”.

The lion’s share of the routing is Mackenzie’s, not to mention about half the holes, including the brilliant 7th, 13th & 14th plus the best part of the 5th.

Scott

I agree 

However, Apperly deserves a lot of credit for his input at NSW GC and a lot of other decent courses in NSW - hence the plug

[Scott Warren]

Definitely, Kevin. As it stands it's legitimately a Mackenzie/Apperly design and with any luck the club will give the new architect enough scope that in five years it's Mackenzie/Apperly/Doak and legitimately competing for a place in the top quarter of the World Top 100.

[Tom_Doak]

Definitely, Kevin. As it stands it's legitimately a Mackenzie/Apperly design and with any luck the club will give the new architect enough scope that in five years it's Mackenzie/Apperly/Doak and legitimately competing for a place in the top quarter of the World Top 100.

If that's the brief it would be news to me.  My first goal is just to get the course to where they can maintain it!


I was actually thinking of taking the same shortcut and attributing NSW to Apperly for the purposes of putting it in my Gourmet's Choice.  (No architect is allowed more than one entry per volume, which creates almost as many quandaries for MacKenzie as it does for me!).  I've heard Newcastle is not what it used to be; what else could be fairly regarded as Apperly's best work?

[Kevin Pallier]

I've heard Newcastle is not what it used to be; what else could be fairly regarded as Apperly's best work?

Tom

Besides input into Newcastle - Apperly had a hand in the original Lakes course (NLE) which was supposedly well received.

Other courses that I believe include some his handiwork are (some of which are Australian Top100 calibre):

Avondale
Bonnie Doon
Castle Hill
Cromer
Duntryleague
Eastlakes
Kiama
Moore Park
Pennant Hills
Pymble
 

[Scott Warren]

Tom -- and that's the scope they have briefed to the members as well, it's just a lot of us hope it's like a home renovation where you plan to simply freshen up the paint and hang some new curtains and then once you get started you end up pulling up the carpet, polishing the floorboards, replacing the modern aluminium windows with some period-appropriate timber ones. And I can't think of a home renovation analogy for eliminating all the couch rough, but that too!


Re: Apperly, In a reasonably untouched state, Apperly's best course other than Newcastle may be Duntryleague, which is three hours west of Sydney in the town of Orange.


I reckon Newcastle is in a pretty good place right now -- some tree removal and effort on sandy areas off piste have paid dividends. The six new Harrison/Champion holes will shake the place up when they come and I remain undecided how I feel about the change.