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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Agreed!


But how does it (best) resolve itself?

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Agreed!


But how does it (best) resolve itself?



I think it has resolved itself--the problem is that some don't like the USGA's resolution.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
I’m one of them...


We can hold out hope that the leaders of the great clubs in the country will realize handing the USGA carte blanche to their course for 5 years has a negative return on investment. At that point, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay and Torrey etc...can fight for US Open rights.

Peter Pallotta

Tough question. Jeff beat me to one possible answer. Another is the emergence of a wily Gorbachev-type leader: one who speaks the USGA language and understands the framework and the apparatus well enough to survive unnoticed as he/she rises up through the ranks, and then, after consolidating power, able and willing (even at the cost of later losing that power) to totally re-vision the empire.
My vote goes to Bob Crosby!
(I hope I haven't blown his cover)


JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
I’m one of them...


We can hold out hope that the leaders of the great clubs in the country will realize handing the USGA carte blanche to their course for 5 years has a negative return on investment. At that point, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay and Torrey etc...can fight for US Open rights.



I'm on your side--just playing Devil's Advocate.


I'd suggest few,if any, clubs which have given the USGA carte blanche think there has been a negative ROI. And that's the problem IMO.


Drop down a tier from clubs like Oakmont, Merion,WF,etc. and tell me how many of those clubs' leaders would say no the "prestige" of hosting the US Open--even if the price was a complete makeover of their golf course.






JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Very few, if any...

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
jeffw, can't really argue with anything you said.


-----


Regarding "why not allow -20?", or its corollary, "why focus on a winning score?", I'll offer the following:


Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, you really need to push things to the limit to separate players. This holds true in other areas as well. When I was in college, my second semester freshman year I had a chemistry course that was an eye opener, for me and most of the class. The thing is, a few kids still rocked the first test. They were smarter and better prepared. That test identified that.


I realize that means occasionally you have things like Shinny's 7th, or Olympic's 18th. I accept that. Most seem to want it both ways - have a course tough and brutal to identify, but not accept when something OCCASIONALLY goes awry.


Similarly, in looking at US Open records/results, to me, Tiger still has the most impressive performance. When makes his -12 in 2000 special is not just the final number, but also - mostly, even - the margin of victory. Rory went further under par, but his margin was half that of Tiger's.


What does that mean for Shinny? Not sure I can really say, at this point. I sure don't recall no one being able to hold greens, I recall them really struggling. Yet somehow, two players, who were arguably the two best players in the world at that moment, managed to put together solid scores. That says something to me. Much like Ben Curtis's win in 03 at Sandwich is not a bad mark on the course or the set up - sure, he didn't do a whole lot else (much more than Beem, Micheel, and other one hit wonders, though) - but because he beat Bjorn, Singh, Love and Woods when they were all at the top of the charts.


I'm looking forward to seeing everyone play the 10th more than almost any hole in recent memory.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tim,


If thats the goal, then so be it.  But I think what some of us are saying, is why butcher a track like Shinnecock to accomplish this?


Go to a track like Valhalla where you can stretch it to 7500 yards, setup uber merch tents, mow the fairways 20 yards wide, grow the rough to 6 inches, don't water the greens for a week, and voila you got your beastie track all ready to go, carnage and all.


Leave the old classics be.
It’s tough to take your argument seriously when you use “track” to refer to a course.


And its hard to take your criticism seriously when you completely ignore the content/main point and focus on one inconsequential alternate term for golf course.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Looks like Mike D is setting expectations up front after last years bomb and gouge fest with low scores...


“I’m a believer that the difference between a soft, still U.S. Open, in other words, it’s been raining, there’s no wind out there, versus a firm and windy one could be as much as 20 strokes,” Davis said. “I’m not exaggerating.”
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Having watched 3 rounds, I still stand by my earlier post:  "It's so very sad.   To see a national treasure like Shinny be altered in such a malicious way is akin to going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa with a magic-marker mustache.

Can the USGA do anything right with regard to our Open Championships?