[Jake Marvin]

With an upcoming visit to the Volunteer State, I've got another day at Sweetens in sight. I'm not going for the Sugarloaf Social Club event, but anyone in the sphere of their social media presence has been bombarded with lead-up hype. The other day they posted their custom scorecard for the event, which included the actual course layout and an additional nine-hole routing composed of various "secret holes" including a par-3 from near 4 green over water to 6 green, a par-5 from 8 tee to 9 green, and plenty of others (2 is the only hole that plays the same in both routings). I'd post the picture, but I've never been successful at posting images here.


I'd heard about plenty of secret holes at Sweetens Cove, but never seen them fleshed out on a map. Concepts like this strike a chord with me because of the brand of golf I grew up playing on minimally planted, practically flat MN farm courses. When a course tips out at 5500 yards for a par of 70, you eventually start inventing longer, or at least more interesting, holes than the ones laid out for you. Moreover, it satisfies that armchair architecture dream just a little when you come up with a particularly creative hole, even if it's unsound or whatever since you can't move any dirt or trees.


I'm curious to hear about others' experiences with unorthodox holes, routings, etc. Do other courses have alternate holes like Sweetens, or have you ever created your own holes to spice up those Doak 1s or 2s? I've personally found myself looking at maps of relatively treeless courses I've played and imagining the kind of holes that could be played if I had the opportunity to play those courses frequently. Perhaps it's not within the 'orthodox' ideas of GCA, but I believe a golf course can only be better if it allows the golfer to devise their own way about the property on a day when business is slow.

[Matthew Petersen]

Probably the most famous example is Thomas' idea of the course within a course at LACC


I was struck by how easy it would be to play adventure gold at Augusta, if the membership were so inclined (obviously, I would imagine they are not so much).


At the course I grew up playing, the tee box for the second hole made for a great alternate tee for the ninth hole, turning it into a risk-reward par 5. We played it that way quite frequently, because the portion of the #2 tee box you used didn't interfere with anyone else actually playing the hole, so there was no one who was inconvenienced if you played the "wrong" tee. That was a small example but about as much as we could do on a heavily tree-lined course.

[PCCraig]

It's been discussed here before but Cassique at the Kiawah Island Club, a ~2000 Tom Watson design, has a routing that changes day by day. On the par-4 4th hole, you either play left to a low green or right to a high green. Then you play the next hole as either an uphill or downhill par-3 to the green you didn't play to. Then the 6th hole, a par 5, either plays from a high teeing ground or a low area roughly 150 yards to the left giving the tee shot two very different looks. It works well as it builds in variety into the part of the routing that sits on somewhat boring ground.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The Northumberland course at Newcastle upon Tyne has completely different summer and winter courses.

[Rick Lane]

Pine Valley has a hole with two greens, as does Streamsong Black.  So does Belfair in SC, but at Belfair they have flags in BOTH holes, so you choose, instead of having it chosen for you.

[Thomas Dai]

Worcester, UK, has alternative routings main season and winter, or rather when the brook floods and the rest of the time. They just bring a couple of short par-3’s into play and split a par-5 into a 4 and a 3. Shortens the overall yardage but works pretty well and is after all only an occasional temporary measure.


Sutton Coldfield in Birmingham also has a winter and rest of year routing. Can’t recall it’s exact changes though.


Atb

[Doug Lionberger]

Pine Valley has a hole with two greens, as does Streamsong Black.  So does Belfair in SC, but at Belfair they have flags in BOTH holes, so you choose, instead of having it chosen for you.

Number 9 at Pacific Dunes is another course with a hole that has multiple greens.

[Charles Lund]

Tokyo Golf Club has two sets of greens, which I think had different kinds of grasses at some point. 


At present, the course is undergoing a major renovation by Gil Hanse.   18 greens are being reworked and some are being moved to an alternate location.  There are some additional tee boxes being constructed and new water features are being constructed on a couple of holes.  All greens will have the same kinds of grass or blend of grasses.  There is significant tree removal in progress and more occurring as part of the renovation.


I had the opportunity to play the course about three weeks ago. 


Greens have adequate spatial separation and each green has its own bunkering.  The member I played with commented that the plan is to provide varying degrees of difficulty, depending on various tee/green combinations.


The different green complexes were situated in a way that one did not intrude on the other in a visual sense.


With the cultural reverence for trees in Japan, my guess is that tree removal wasn't warmly embraced in some circles.  Generally, the fairways have adequate width, from my perspective as someone who grew up playing in fhe Pacific Northwest.  It looked to me like some stands of pines that were removed will allow better light and ventilation.


Charles Lund

[Edward Glidewell]

One of the holes at the Barefoot Resort Fazio course has two greens. I don't remember the hole number, but it's a par 4 with a green right in front of you at the end of the fairway, and a separate green to the left across a marshy hazard. I've only played the course three or four times, but I don't think I've ever played to the straightaway green.


I think Oyster Bay in Sunset Beach, NC also has a hole with two greens (I can't remember if it's Oyster Bay or another nearby course). It's similar to the hole at Barefoot in that there's a straightaway green and a second green to the left across a hazard. The last time I played there it looked like the straightaway green had been abandoned, but I don't know if that's the case or if it was just in poor shape at the time.

[Jeff Schley]

You David Williams 7,200 yard golf course on just 50 acres design.  Can 't get the photo here, but here is the link:
http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/how-to-fit-a-7200-yard-golf-course-into-50-acres#

[Jim Franklin]

The Creek Club at Reynolds Plantation has three greens on #18.

[Mike Hendren]

The 3rd hole at Nicklaus' Spring Creek Ranch east of Memphis is rather unique in that it provides alternate fairways to be chosen at the tee separated by a heavily wooded area with both routes ending at the same green.  The shorter route on this 540 yards hole is to the left where one must carry very large fairway cross bunkers set into a short hillside, leaving a second or third shot that must carry a pond fronting the green.  Play down the alternative right side is along a fairway that bends gently left with the pond on the left side of the green.  Really, two distinct holes playing to one green. 

[BHoover]

The 18th hole at Jefferson G&CC outside Columbus has a huge crescent green, which effectively is four greens in one. The club puts two pins on the green, and depending on the tee you play, you can play to the left or the right pin.

[Jake Marvin]

Admittedly, this thread took a much different path than I intended, but let's roll with it. As a further question, most of these concepts, with the exception of summer/winter courses that exist for agronomic/playability reasons, seem like the sort of thing that are contrived for their sake rather than for the sake of good architecture or interesting play. It's the equivalent of an academic writing a paper full of big, meaningless words; it screams "look at how smart I am!" rather than teaching you anything or providing an insightful read.


Where's the line between innovative concepts that add to the architectural and playing experience, and concepts that come off as rinky-dink and clumsy or are simply promotional material?

[Forrest Richardson]

I have created a few designs with "bridge" holes that are short-cuts to change the routing. Never built, but designed. At Baylands (Palo Alto) we did a par-4 (14th) with two separate greens. I have played a few of these in my career...Virginia CC, Bandon (Doak) and Jim Engh's Reynolds Plantation's 18th with, as I recall, three greens to choose from.

[Jon Wiggett]

Seaton Carew (Hartlepool) has 22 holes in total which are used for a summer and winter variation. Dewsbury also has/used to have summer and winter courses with the winter course being the better of the two.

[Pete_Pittock]

Sevillano Links near Corning, CA is designed from par 72 to par 90.

[Ian Andrew]

The European Club has 20 holes.
I prefer the alternate threes ...
I think most people simply play 20 because it links together that way.

[MClutterbuck]

Club del Lago in Punta del Este, site of a PGA Latinoamerica tournament has 20 holes as well. Have not played there in 25 years, used to be a nice track.

[Mark_Fine]

Pine Valley actually has two holes with two greens.  Crump saw the one set but not the other. 

[B.Ross]

16 & 17 at rancho park in LA are both holes w/ 2 greens. heck even 15 at rancho has a small green looking surface 75 yards short of the main green, but that appears more to be an internal elevated sod farm.

[Tal Oz]

16 & 17 at rancho park in LA are both holes w/ 2 greens. heck even 15 at rancho has a small green looking surface 75 yards short of the main green, but that appears more to be an internal elevated sod farm.

14 is still maintained as green, though I've only seen it in use once on aeration day. I think 11 was another one of the alternate greens. An older gentleman I played with one morning told me in the 80's they thought it would be a good idea to have alternate greens on most holes to cut down on traffic, only a few remain. For those unaware, Rancho Park was up until a few years ago the most played course in the country.

[Thomas Dai]

What about ‘composite courses’ where a club has more than one course...say Royal Melbourne?
And are ‘reversible’ courses to be considered?

Atb

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