St. Marlo Atlanta

[Edward Glidewell]

Has anyone here played St. Marlo in Atlanta (technically John's Creek/Duluth)?


I played it Saturday afternoon, and while the entire course is too narrow IMO, the 9th hole takes the cake as one of the worst holes I've ever played. I can't find any good photos of it, but it's a 456 yard par 5 that plays straight uphill back to the clubhouse. It obviously sounds short via the yardage, but it's so far uphill that it plays significantly longer. I hit an okay drive on the right side of the fairway (both of the guys I was playing with hit it 5-10 yards off the fairway and lost their balls), then had to just lay up with a wedge to about 130 yards so that I'd be in a flat spot. It was probably a 260 yard carry to reach the green in two when factoring in the elevation change, and there's a huge rock embedded in the hill just before the green that blocks your view. It's also a small green, and while short is absolutely dead (you'd probably be sitting behind the rock with no shot except to play sideways or backwards, or possibly roll all the way back down to where you hit from originally), you really can't miss long either. Even my shot from the relatively flat layup zone required a couple of extra clubs because of the elevation difference/to make sure it was up over the boulder.

I assume the rock was preexisting and the hole was routed there as a means to get back up to the clubhouse, but wow. The only real option is to hit it dead straight off the tee, and then be able to hit it very high to get it up to the green on one of the following shots. I imagine there are some golfers who have no way to play the hole because they can't get the ball up to the green.




I'm curious if anyone else has played the hole and can offer a defense, or if it's just incredibly bad architecture.

[A.G._Crockett]

I've played St. Marlo, and 9 is a bad hole.  The degree of "local knowledge" required to play that hole is off the charts, and 10 is arguably nearly as bad, with bunkers all over the place in the landing area. 

It's a Denis Griffiths golf course, and I really like his work.  But I don't really know of a defense for those two holes; they mar an otherwise good course.  There is just no good way to play either hole.  I've always sort of assumed that 9 is a textbook example of what can go wrong on a residential development golf course, but that isn't a good explanation of the fairway bunkering on 10.  9 might be better as a very short par 4, perhaps?

I was a member for a number of years at Crystal Falls, which is a Griffiths course just into Dawson County.  Wonderful golf course, with some of the best fairway bunkering you'll ever see anywhere.  He also did a lot of the GA state park courses, all of which are excellent, and Old Union and Brasstown Valley are excellent designs of his as well.  So I have to give him a pass for #9 at St. Marlo, though I can't explain it.

[Doug Bolls]

From a friend of mine, Jim Indermill, a member at St. Marlo:


Ah, our 9th hole.  Feel free to forward to your GCA friends if you think it fits the conversation.  Every time I play the hole I think of the 1st hole on Prestonwood Highways.  It was a great example of what to avoid in golf course architecture.  I will try to get you some pictures when we play tomorrow.
 
First, we understand that Griffiths original plan was to place the green beyond the cart path crossing which would add 60-80 yards to the length and make the third shot more reasonable, yet still uphill.  The developer/owner wanted the rock formation more involved in the hole so we have a short, uphill par 5. 
 
I have played the hole over 900 times and have scored from 3-10.  Depends on where the hole is cut and how well you are controlling the golf ball.  Don’t scores on most holes depend on this?
 
If you are driving well, and you have several holes to determine that before #9, keep your drive left center off the tee then decide If you want to go for the green.  I add 3 clubs(30 yards) from the bottom fairway and 2 clubs(20 yards) from the upper fairway.  If you are not driving well long iron, hybrid or 3 metal off the tee is the play. 
 
If you are not going for the green in two, the best play is short of the green on the left side of the fairway.  You are pitching to the length of the green and Griffiths provided two backstops if the flag is in the front or back.  It is an easier approach if you take on a  more challenging lay up. 
 
#10 is a lay up Par 5 off the tee. The two cross bunkers and the slopes around them make them areas to avoid.  Cross bunkers here are visible and allow plenty of room to avoid them short.  Most players cannot carry them and hoping to bounce past them is low percentage golf.  If you do carry them, they leave a downhill mid-long iron to an uphill green.  Not a percentage play for most. 
 
Overall, St. Marlo is tight with no obvious side to miss on for most holes(classic residential golf, but the handicaps travel well).  The par 4’s are a good mix of longer and shorter lengths with a variety of second shots required.  The Par 3’s are challenging with good creativity from the architect.  The Par 5’s are not as strong but are more akin to par 4 1/2 holes. 

[Edward Glidewell]

That's an interesting take from someone who has played the hole many, many times -- staying on the left side? Of course I've only played it once and so defer to his experience, but it seems to me that if you stayed down the left then you are bringing the huge rock into play even more, and you may have to carry over it to reach the green. I suppose the pin location makes a significant difference, though.

I don't really remember the 10th hole, probably because there was a group on the green, in the fairway, and waiting on the tee when we arrived, so we had a very long wait and I stopped thinking about the course.

I do agree that the par 4s were mostly solid holes, albeit too tight. The par 3s weren't bad, but the two that stand out in my mind both had a forced carry over a pond to reach the green... I can't remember if every par 3 required that or if it was just those two.