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Jeff Shelman

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2018, 01:35:08 PM »

Dan Moore

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2018, 04:18:03 PM »
Looks to me like today's 10th (Raynor's 8th) could be the road hole.  It has the proper length, a bunker short left of the green and, in the 1930's aerial, a couple of bunkers at the back left of the green to mimic the road. Another bunker short right of the green might be a stand in for the station masters garden.   I don't recall if today's green had a tier or a false front?  Mac/Raynor often improvised on the strict intrepretation of the road hole so this adaptation seems possible. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Nigel Islam

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2019, 10:36:32 AM »

Mike Manthey's Midland Hills blog:
http://www.mhccturf.com/?p=1140


Scroll to the bottom of the home page and click on "Seth Raynor" to view MM's hole-by-hole dissection of the course.

Lots of info found there, along w/this wonderful photo of SR:




That looks like Michael Palin to me......


Just to close the loop on this picture this is Charles Frazier.


http://theaposition.com/anthonypioppi/golf/personalities/2245/the-mystery-of-faux-seth-raynor-photo-unravelled-by-crack-researcher

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2020, 03:59:53 AM »
My friend Hal Phillips sent me this nice story and it seems like a good update for this thread:

The lost routing: How stumbling upon a century-old course map led to architectural gold

https://golf.com/travel/seth-raynor-map-found-midland-hills/

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -5
Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2020, 08:01:02 AM »
Congratulations Jim and to everyone else involved with the project.  This is a perfect example and a great thread to read for anyone trying to understand why it is near impossible to do “true restoration”. A huge part of it comes down to how hard you search for historic information and also as in this case, how lucky you are in what you can find.  I am sure Jim would have done a great job trying to restore what he could without this plan but finding a discovery like this can only help the cause.  However, as most here know, plans like this still need to be cross examined/compared with early aerials and course photos as many of the classic architects altered their plans once they started work in the field.  Some didn’t even add bunkers to many of their courses until they saw how it played.  To know what actually got built and then to understand how the architect tweaked it to his or her perfection requires a lot of study and effort and unfortunately some guess work.  This is a great example of the challenges of restoration!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 09:54:10 AM by Mark_Fine »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found!
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2020, 09:51:52 AM »
I have never played Midland Hills. It was just down the street when I was in Seminary in the late 60's and early 70's but t that time I had not contacts. On subsequent trips back it never worked out. It is one of the courses in the cites that I'd like to play, even more so now.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

JC Urbina

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Re: Midland Hills -- Raynor Plan Found! New
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2021, 03:40:15 PM »
Mike S
Thanks for adding the link to this thread.

If I may throw in a few thank you's to all involved in a very unusual year in golf.

First off, I want say as I have said many times before, when the Golf Course Superintendent has a passion for the Golden Age of design and the green Committee as a whole has faith in the project, you have way more chance for success.  Mike Manthey spent countless hours on this project to make it happen.  I know for a fact that when he went home, the energy for his Seth Raynor designed golf course never turned off, never! It was infectious.

His maintenance crew gave everything they had even though they were not trained in golf course construction, after the project was done, I know they could do as good a job as anyone out there.  You see when you lead by example the project steam rolls, even the bad days are good ones. 

The two guys helping me create the look and feel of this Seth Raynor design were also a big positive.  Joe Hancock and Zach Varty were as important to the success of the work at Midland Hills as I was, maybe even more.  Without the eye for scale, design intent and craftsmanship of the work of the designers / shapers,  some of these projects are simply updates to drainage and sand quality and not designers intent.

The reason for such a renewed interest in the revitalization of these masters of design are simple, the quality of each hole becomes more evident.  The variety within each hole becomes more apparent and in the overall scheme of things the holes give a sense of wonderment, kind of a what's next anticipation.

The Alps at Midland Hills, I guarantee you will not see anywhere else in that configuration.
The Knoll is a one-of-a-kind feature not seen in modern day designs.
The Punchbowl is a perfect use of the topography given the designs of that era.
The 15th hole is as elegant a green site as one could ask for. 
The Eden couldn't be any finer of an example than of its namesake, complete with a body of water acting as the estuary and remember Seth Raynor never saw the original.

I could go on and on, you see even though some would say these template holes are over used I don't think so. They reveal an era of design not governed by the terms of fair and the dreaded U word, Unfair.

Happy New Year!!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 10:18:53 PM by JC Urbina »