Lido- Virtual Build

[Bret Lawrence]

Is it possible the 2nd green at Lido was based on an adaptation of Mackenzie's 18th green?  Macdonald mentioned that the 2nd green at Lido was based on a prize green.  Considering there were only three prizes and the 2nd and 3rd entries showed little detail in regards to the green, maybe he was referring to Mackenzie's green?  If you flip Mackenzie's green and substitute one of the hollows for a second plateau and make a few adjustments you could turn this double hollow green into a double plateau green rather easily. Even the runner-up designs that were published showed very little detail in their greens.

[Alex Miller]

For what it's worth (perhaps very little), I like Brett's interpretation quite a bit. It matches what my eyes are seeing in the model and could make for a compelling green complex. It would also help explain the stark ridge in the green in addition to the triangular knob back right - these could be used as backboards / feeder slopes for demanding plateau/hollow areas.

[Peter Flory]

Well, I'm finally done enough that it is test playable on 2K21. I still have a laundry list of little areas that I want to refine, like the 2nd green.  Bret, I didn't notice your post until now.  Where did CBM say that he patterned the green off of a contest entry?  Your theory makes a lot of sense. 

Here are some screen shots to show how it is looking.  For these, I went with a late 1920s aesthetic.  Still wild, but with the rough grown in a bit.  Early in its history, it was extremely wild and late in its history it was really grassed in. 

I'll just grab some random pics that I think represents it well- not in order.  Sorry, you'll have to scroll to see the full images.

3rd (ignore that mound to the right of the green- that is a secret tee box for the 4th for video game play only):



7th: approach:


9th hole- morning sun.  Shows what a difficult approach it would be from the left angle. 


10th- view of green from angle of approach around the alps


No caption necessary:


View of the Redan after walking down from the high tee box:



Looking down the barrel of Long.  I feel like it has a little Prestwick in it here, the way that everything ties together:

[Jeff Schley]

Peter what a great effort and I know you did this voluntarily and I learned a tremendous amount. I didn't know the name Lido when I joined the site, only that CBM had created a course on LI that isn't there anymore. I am curious on three points.


1. How many hours do you estimate you devoted to this labor of love?
2. If you had to estimate how close your creation is to what was actually on the ground as you are limited by photos and information you were able to find.
3. Are you being utilized by Tom Doak or Gil Hanse for their Lido creations currently?


Well done and I'd love to host you in the Chicago area to play a round when I get back next.

[Bret Lawrence]

Peter,


Great work!  Thanks for helping us visualize Lido.


C. B. Macdonald mentioned the second green was designed after a prize green in his July 1915 Golf Illustrated article.


“The second hole resembles in some measure the eleventh at the National.  The shot from the tee is a blind one, but on the fall there is considerable slope which gives particularly to the long driver who carries the bunkers to the right, a run which leaves him a driving iron or cleek to the green.  The green is a double plateau and is built after one of the prize greens selected by a committee consisting of Mr. Hutchinson, Mr. Darwin and Mr. Fowler out of eighty designs submitted to them in Great Britain for the best two-shot hole.”


Bret

[Peter Flory]

Peter what a great effort and I know you did this voluntarily and I learned a tremendous amount. I didn't know the name Lido when I joined the site, only that CBM had created a course on LI that isn't there anymore.

Lots of hours, but very spread out.  It never felt like a grind because I was learning more and more about the course as I was doing it.  Felt more like reading a really good book. 

In terms of the accuracy, it is really getting close thanks to all the triangulation.  One nice thing is that there weren't overall slopes to the property.  So, each feature is sort of its own thing and I just needed to get each one proportional to the rest and matching the ground level photos.  In that respect, it's not a chain reaction where one misstep could throw the rest off.  The biggest blind spots are the greens on 2 and 11 I would say.  But I have lots of really good aerials that show them and some features can be seen. 

Consider this a living model though.  I'll continuously refine it and will incorporate any new information or analysis. 

[Tom_Doak]

3. Are you being utilized by Tom Doak or Gil Hanse for their Lido creations currently?

I would not have signed on to an attempt to recreate the Lido unless I was convinced we had enough information to get it right.  Peter's work convinced me that we can do it, and he will certainly be involved.  As of now we are trying to sort out how to translate all his data points into a grading plan, instead of a video presentation.

[Thomas Dai]

Splendid. Well done Peter.
Atb

[Bill Seitz]

It's a lot of fun to play and looks absolutely great. 

[Peter Flory]

Getting down to some of the detail work, like power/ phone poles, etc.  Also going over the entire course again to try to get all of the micro contours and green contours as accurate as possible.

Here are some screenshots with some background blur to try to capture the atmosphere.

Looking over the cross bunkers on 7


From short of the 18th green


Looking at the approach on the 5th.  Knoll in the background.


Short of the green on the 6th


9th green looking back toward the fairway.  Wind whipping off of the Atlantic.


3rd shot on the 4th.  Added civilization to the background. 

[Ira Fishman]

Peter,


This may have been asked and answered earlier, but do you maintain a website with all of the wonderful work in one place?


Thanks,


Ira

[Ben Stephens]

3. Are you being utilized by Tom Doak or Gil Hanse for their Lido creations currently?

I would not have signed on to an attempt to recreate the Lido unless I was convinced we had enough information to get it right.  Peter's work convinced me that we can do it, and he will certainly be involved.  As of now we are trying to sort out how to translate all his data points into a grading plan, instead of a video presentation.

Tom - Hmm I thought you weren't convinced by or anti golf courses designed in 3D computer modelling in another thread yet you are intending to proceed with this particular form of information have you turned a corner?? 

Peter - the work you have done for one course is astonishing - well done.

[Peter Flory]

Peter,

This may have been asked and answered earlier, but do you maintain a website with all of the wonderful work in one place?

Thanks,

Ira

No, I'm just posting periodic updates here because I know that there are people interested in the progress.  Also, I have received some really helpful information from others here, so want to share back.  I never would have been interested enough to tackle this project if it wasn't for all of the prior threads and research that others contributed.

[Matthew Rose]

Looks amazing in 2k21.

[Michael Dugger]

Hey Peter, what are you calling the course on 2k21?  I searched Lido last night and nothing came up.


I'm on the new version too, to be clear.


Looks good!!! 

[Pat Burke]

I don’t understand enough about the work you have done and the research applied,
But holy cow that is just an unreal looking presentation


Thank you for sharing this
I am looking at simulators for a facility and looking at your work is just thrilling to me

[Brian Finn]

Hey Peter, what are you calling the course on 2k21?  I searched Lido last night and nothing came up.

Can anyone answer this question?  I’m hoping to play it. Thanks!

[Tom_Doak]

Tom - Hmm I thought you weren't convinced by or anti golf courses designed in 3D computer modelling in another thread yet you are intending to proceed with this particular form of information have you turned a corner?? 

Ben:


In this case we are attempting to recreate a course which once existed, and the important part to me is all of the research and photo triangulation that Peter has done to get the elevations of the course as accurate as possible.  After that, someone else designed a program to grid his 3-D model and spit out a grading plan . . . and I am convinced that that grading plan is a better start than anything I could draw up.


But I still have no interest in designing a golf course from scratch on the computer.  If you and others enjoy playing the computer game, that's fine, but I'll wait for the full scale version!

[Michael Dugger]

Hey Peter, what are you calling the course on 2k21?  I searched Lido last night and nothing came up.

Can anyone answer this question?  I’m hoping to play it. Thanks!

Search for NLE and he's got a couple of versions up.  Select the higher number for the latest version.

[Mark Fedeli]

Hey Peter, what are you calling the course on 2k21?  I searched Lido last night and nothing came up.

Can anyone answer this question?  I’m hoping to play it. Thanks!

Search for NLE and he's got a couple of versions up.  Select the higher number for the latest version.

Someone just gave me a Nintendo Switch Lite as a gift. I've been out of video games for quite a while. If I buy 2k21 will I be able to download the Lido and other similar user-generated courses? Thanks.

[Matthew Rose]

I believe 2k21 is available for Switch.

If you have it, you should be able to play any publicly released course.

[Mark Fedeli]

I believe 2k21 is available for Switch.

If you have it, you should be able to play any publicly released course.

The game is available for Switch, but I see that “course designer” isn’t available for Switch. So I’m wondering if that means I also won’t be able to download custom courses like Lido. I probably wouldn’t buy it if I was stuck only playing the 6 pre-loaded Tour courses.


EDIT: Found my answer. Looks like the standard edition of the game has access to the user courses. Excellent.

[Bill Seitz]

To be honest, a lot of the user based courses are better than the courses that come standard with the game.  I got hooked into a "Tour" set up by guys from the No Laying Up message board (NLU Refuge Tour), and they play a bunch of user courses.  There's a Bandon Style "resort" (complete with short course) that was a big project for a bunch of designers.  These are all courses I never would have found on my own.  The user created recreations are surprisingly faithful.  Our next event is the playoffs, and they've chosen Pete's final version of Lido for the venue.


Note as well that you don't need to download courses.  You just access them through the game. 

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm tempted to purchase PGATour2K21 for my PC. I've never played it. Does anyone here play it on PC? Is that a one-time purchase?


https://pgatour.2k.com/

[Matthew Rose]

I have the PC version - had to go through Steam, which is an online store similar to iTunes or Apple Music, but for video games - I had an account already from the previous version as well as when I bought Perfect Golf. I have maybe 10 courses out or so, a few which were ported over from 2019. There are two or three that are 90% done but I haven't got around to finishing them off.

I work for Trackman now so it's pretty much become my job... unfortunately I don't get much time to design for pleasure, but I still try to once in awhile just to get me out of re-creation mode.