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Jonathan Mallard

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Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 01:03:21 PM »
Well that is a shame, loved playing them both. Hopefully something can be worked out.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Greg Gilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 02:07:12 PM »

I would be terribly sad if these 2 disappeared. Really polarizing courses but....


I spent many fun days down at these 2 while living in Northern Virginia back in the 90's, &


Not enough Strantz in the world as it is

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 02:28:36 PM »
Royal New Kent is one of the more fun courses to play. Like other Strantz courses, it has holes you never seen before. It would be a shame to lose it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sam Kestin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 05:10:35 PM »
This is tragic--there are only so many Strantz designs and thanks to the heartbreaking loss of him at a early age there won't be any more forthcoming.


I've heard Nicklaus say a number of times something to the effect of "there's nothing new in golf course architecture--just variations on old ideas."


Strantz designs felt like something new and totally unlike anything else I ever played. They were strategically stimulating, visually stunning and an absolute blast to play. It's a shame to see two of them bite the dust.

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 06:35:51 AM »
Stonehouse definitely comes in [near] last among Strantz's designs, but the original version of Royal New Kent was right at the top.

Sad to lose any of his work.

WW

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 04:49:16 AM »
Deeply saddened to read this report. They are both such ambitious designs, or at least were when they were created.
 
I last visited both courses just over two years ago, playing (and walking) them on consecutive dark, drizzly days in early November. The weather emphasised the general air of gloom hanging over both. I wasn't expecting to find them in the advanced state of decay that I did, as my previous visit had been during their heyday, when both were dazzling.
Stonehouse was in especially dire straits in late 2015. With a maintenance staff of just three (including a mechanic) it was a monumental task for them to keep such an immense playing area in tolerable condition. There were washouts you could lose a car in, trees growing in front of tees and the bunkers were largely bereft of sand. Bunkers by the dozen had been filled in and whilst one could still appreciate the drama and creativity of Strantz's original vision, it had decayed beyond the point of resurrection. I could sense the flatline on the horizon.
 
RNK was magnificent and in much better condition, but shared the same decaying tropes. I really enjoyed the game and even the immense, solitary walk around the deserted course, but it was clear to see they were really struggling to keep it in shape. There was a more optimistic air about the place and Lester was a very genial host. We talked long after the sun set (though we never saw it through the low clouds) and I was struck by his real affection for the course. It was easy to see why, because it is an engaging, dramatic and fun course. I laughed out loud more than once at the sheer, outrageous artistry of Strantz's design.
 
I really hope something can be worked out for both of them, but I struggle to see how it's going to work. They're too far from both Richmond and Williamsburg and as the conditioning deteriorates they become less appealing to play and more difficult. It's a horrible downward spiral.
Tot Hill Farm could be next.
 
 
 
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James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 10:15:16 PM »
I lived in the Tidewater area in the 90s and would cite RNK as my first really thought provoking golf architecture experience.  Nobody plays that course and doesn’t have a strong opinion afterwards. 




BCowan

Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 10:37:58 PM »
I have played 3 Strantz tracks (Caledonia, Stonehouse, and Tobacco).  I'm bummed I haven't played True Blue and that I didn't play RNK, instead of Stonehouse.  Caledonia was far and away his best course of the 3, the routing was fantastic.  It's been 20 years since I've played it and I'd like to play it again.  Stonehouse didn't even look close to the other courses.  It reminded me of a Treetops course in N MI, one of the poorer ones like the Fazio track.  I'm not surprised Stonehouse isn't doing good.


Strantz is like a cross between Pete Dye and Mackenzie.  Pete Dye makes some great golf holes, then makes some head scratchers.  Dye on the other had has much better Strategy in his designs and always rewards angles, it's the means he does it half the time that I don't care for.  Strantz had mastered the visuals like a Dr Mack and I think that people even on here don't see his lack of strategy on some holes.   

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 10:47:17 PM »
http://www.traditionalclubs.com/    I think this company was involved...the Crooked Creek course they had in Atlanta was just foreclosed last week and the Milton CC course they had was sold a few weeks ago so I assume something had to be going on with the Stonehouse and New Kent places...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Greg Gilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 12:04:21 AM »

I have not been to either course for nearly 20 years. Were they both always purely public courses? Was there no attempt to convert to private club basis? Was there not some residential back up at both? Obviously not enough to keep them running or to work profitably...but...


I am guessing those people who built houses within each estate must now be mortified that their golf community is now just a community?

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2018, 01:47:03 AM »
Royal New Kent was as good as Stonehouse was bad

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2018, 05:47:06 PM »
Royal New Kent was as good as Stonehouse was bad


Well said, Mike. Having played them all, Stonehouse is the only Stranz course I didn’t like - classic Doak 0 in that it occupies a piece of land that should never have had a golf course on it. Despite having so few Stranz courses in it, the golf would probably wouldn’t suffer its loss.


But losing Royal New Kent would be a tragedy. RNK was the first Strantz I ever played - it instantly got me hooked on his work and made me seek out more of his designs. I would hate to see this one disappear.
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Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal New Kent And Stonehouse (Strantz) closed. Temporarily. For now.
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2018, 08:14:44 PM »
http://www.traditionalclubs.com/    I think this company was involved...the Crooked Creek course they had in Atlanta was just foreclosed last week and the Milton CC course they had was sold a few weeks ago so I assume something had to be going on with the Stonehouse and New Kent places...


You have it right.


With each transaction, you can scramble the eggs a bit more.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is another idea: What if the Dormie Network bought Royal New Kent to add to their collection of Dormie, Ballyhack, Arbor Links and Briggs Ranch?


I would say the course would fit in with their collection of courses.


What do you think?

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is another idea: What if the Dormie Network bought Royal New Kent to add to their collection of Dormie, Ballyhack, Arbor Links and Briggs Ranch?


I would say the course would fit in with their collection of courses.


What do you think?


Only if they could buy up those intrusive condos at the start of the back nine.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sadly, there is nothing as permanent as a temporary solution in many cases.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
This looks promising.


$2 Million renovation in addition to the purchase price.


Talk of 1500 tons of sand, new drainage, and restoring the original design intent.


https://richmondbizsense.com/2018/06/01/shuttered-local-golf-course-finds-buyer/




Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
The linked article has the following quote from the proposed purchase, describing Strantz' courses:

[/size]“All of them have the same feeling of the Irish or Scottish design,” Tuck said of Strantz’s work. “They’re all hard as hell but they’re all interesting.”[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size] Really???
[/color]
 ???


[/size]I agree with interesting, but certainly not the same feeling. If anything, Strantz courses are quite varied for such a small portfolio. Caledonia is not very hard. True Blue was when it opened, but is very playable today.[/color]




MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Promising news.


Call me a masochist but I'm hoping Stonehouse can be saved as well. I really love that course even though it beat me around the head and shoulders.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 04:37:22 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Photo album of RNK from a summer of 2007 visit:


http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/RoyalNewKent/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Those Royal New Kent photos remind me of Bull's Bay quite a lot. Different aesthetic surrounding the holes, but the architecture looks very similar. Caledonia and True Blue (the only other Strantz courses I've played along with Bull's Bay) don't have that same look IMO (although I absolutely love Caledonia).


It looks like a very fun place to play.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is a update on the restoration work taking place at Royal New Kent.


Lots of work to do but it will help the course last another 20 years.


https://affordablegolfdesign.blogspot.com/2018/10/royal-new-kent-renovation-report-1.html


"They don't build golf course like they used to." Reply- "No one built courses like Mike Strantz."




Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Stonehouse was purchased for $800k. $1.4MM of renovation work is already underway with a targeted re-opening of July 1, 2019.


https://richmondbizsense.com/2019/01/25/area-golf-course-sold-800000/

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am tickled to see the work at RNK. I just love the course. I'll have to get back there after it opens. Stonehouse is probably a gamble. I like a number of the holes, especially the par threes. I hope it works out for the new owner. I think Stonehouse is a course folks will play once because of the novelty but not return. Because of the long rides between holes it takes a long time to play. I have walked RNK and have enjoyed many memorable rounds there. It is a great place for a foursome to spend a few days.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi