Valley Club Damage?

[David_Tepper]

Anyone been by the Valley Club of Montecito lately? Word is about 10 holes suffered damage from the mudslides in the area and will be out of play till the end of the summer.

[Joel_Stewart]

I don't think thats accurate. All the Inland holes are fine.


Last I heard they had a lot of mud on 10 and especially the par 3 11th which is buried. It's the only green that needs to be regrassed.

[Pete_Pittock]

http://golfweek.com/2018/01/23/the-forecaddie-montecito-golf-courses-hit-hard-status-uncertain/


Pretty much everything east of Sheffield is damaged according to the article

[Tom_Doak]

The damage was all across the road, where the mud and debris in the creeks took out the bridges and the irrigation main line, and put a lot of mud on holes 10&11.  They have been scraping it off and we have given them a few spots to lose some of the extra dirt, but those holes will be closed for a while.  Overall, they consider themselves fortunate, a lot of neighbors in Montecito have been dealing with much worse.

[Kalen Braley]

I just drove by it yesterday when I was in town for my daughters lacrosse tourney.


The holes across the road were indeed closed and there was backhoes/equipment spread out all over the place.  There was what looked to be a foot bridge right near the road entrance that was in bad shape.  But Tom is right....there is some nasty damage to many many homes in that general area that will likely have to be bull dozed...

[David_Tepper]

Please remind me how many holes are "across the road."

[Kalen Braley]

David, I could be wrong, but looks like 3 thru 12 are across the road.


When I drove by yesterday there were golfers on the club house side, so looks like they are playing 1-2, 13-18 in a 8 hole loop....

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

Thanks. It sounds like my original info was not quite accurate. While all the holes across the road are closed, only #9, #10 & #11 suffered from the mudslide.

DT

[Tyler Kearns]

The most current aerial of Valley Club of Montecito on Google Earth shows the damage.


Tyler

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen -

Thanks. It sounds like my original info was not quite accurate. While all the holes across the road are closed, only #9, #10 & #11 suffered from the mudslide.

DT

David,


That's what I noticed as well taking a few peaks thru the fence.  The holes away from the creek to the west....seemed to be just fine....which is good news for the club.

[Matt_Cohn]

[Tom_Doak]

I stopped by The Valley Club on Sunday to have a look at their efforts to clean up the damage from the mudslides.


As I said in my previous post, the club's problems are inconsequential compared to those of some homeowners a bit further up the hill.  We drove past one neighborhood that had been swept over by several feet of mud moving at 10-20 mph:  wrecked cars, walls of homes torn away, some buried completely.


The barranca which runs across holes 9,10,11 and 12 was completely filled with mud and boulders and debris, plus five feet above the banks spread out on both sides, burying the 11th green and 9th and 10th approaches.  We've tried to find some places for them to fill within the course so they don't have to pay to haul all of it away:  for example, raising the right side of the 10th fairway to contain tee shots better, and raising the landing area at the 9th and tying it back into the high ground on the left.  At first I thought maybe they wouldn't want to tear up that whole fairway to place the fill, but once I saw it I understood there really wasn't much turf to save.


By the time of my visit they had already painstakingly removed five feet of mud from the 11th green [plus three inches of greens mix], and replaced the greens mix with clean material.  We thought we would have to do some grading there but they had put it back so well there was nothing for us to do.  It's too bad there is no longer a "restoration of the year" award, because the staff at The Valley Club should have won something for their work.

[Kalen Braley]

"As I said in my previous post, the club's problems are inconsequential compared to those of some homeowners a bit further up the hill.  We drove past one neighborhood that had been swept over by several feet of mud moving at 10-20 mph:  wrecked cars, walls of homes torn away, some buried completely."

Couldn't agree more on this one Tom.  I've seen some nasty stuff before, but nothing like those neighborhoods that got completely wiped out to the north and east of there, crazy stuff.

[Jeff Schley]

So in a situation like this where you have a natural disaster, did the Valley Club have insurance or how is this being funded?

[Tom_Doak]

So in a situation like this where you have a natural disaster, did the Valley Club have insurance or how is this being funded?

They do have insurance, which probably won't pay for everything, but it certainly helps.

[Jeff Schley]

Played here a couple weeks ago and the course was fantastic.  Our host showed the areas and extent of damage which I never would have known it as Tom's team and the course super did a wonderful job. 






I also have to say the bunkers were a great example of Mackenzie bunkering and can't think of a better example of his classic bunkering style with the sharp edges and shaved mowing into the edges.  Great maintenance practices here or they couldn't keep them looking so great.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Would be interesting to know the insurance details, although admittedly a bit nosy.  But it would be for professional knowledge.


I have seen a few courses that have insurance for tree damage, maybe some flood damage, but in most cases, it seems they assume the course is natural and not subject to damage.  I know one club that was insured more for the pro leaving and the silverware being stolen than they were for the golf course.  Also, I presume it's probably expensive to impossible to get earthquake or mud slide insurance in certain areas of CA?

[SB]

Jeff,
There is a specific policy generally referred to as "tee and green insurance", which covers damage to tees and greens from things such as floods, but many times it only covers actual damage from things like erosion where the green is literally swept away.  Some times simply covering the area with silt or, in this case mud, may not always be covered, particularly if you are in a flood zone, although I'm guessing VC was not.  .   

I've never heard of mudslide insurance, but there is earthquake insurance, but it can be really expensive. 

[Ira Fishman]

The Greenbrier is in a major dispute with its insurers over the tragic floods in 2016. Apparently they paid over $30MM but Greenbrier claims they are owed much more.


Ira

[Bernie Bell]

I've handled golf property claims in my day job, but am not working on Greenbrier's.  The golf property policies can cover "earthquake" (or "earth movement") which is typically defined to include mudslide, but I am not sure that earthquake coverage is available in California, Pacific NW or the New Madrid Seismic Zone.  I have seen coverage for damage to "golf holes", which includes "cut and maintained playing surfaces normal to the operation of a golf course including ,but not limited to, tees, greens, fairways, roughs, driving ranges, bunkers and sand traps." And for other things too, including man-made structures, golf car fleets, trees and landscaping, debris removal, and loss of income from business interruption. 

[Tom_Doak]

When we were building Pacific Dunes, one day Mr. Keiser asked me if I thought he should buy the tsunami insurance someone was trying to sell him. 


My response was that if something happened that would severely damage the golf course, it would probably do much more damage to everything else within 50 miles.  So, it was unlikely that the resort would even try to get back up and running for a while anyway, and we would have to redesign around what was left.  I couldn't see how the insurance would actually cover all of that without it costing a small fortune, too.


I never asked but I think he just took the risk instead of insuring against it.

[Bernie Bell]

We're getting into serious insurance geekdom here! Tom, in that situation, the policies are typically designed to put the owner in the position they would have been in had no loss (hurricane, flood, tsunami) occurred.  The standard language is that "for the purpose of ascertaining the amount of loss sustained, due consideration shall be given to the experience of the Insured's business before the date of damage or destruction and to the probable experience thereafter had no loss occurred."  So at least to start with the claim would be adjusted on the basis of historical profit extrapolated forward during the period of down time ("period of restoration") as if no loss had occurred.