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Duncan Cheslett

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OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« on: February 11, 2018, 04:37:20 PM »
I've had the go-ahead to launch this initiative over the coming months.


I would appreciate all constructive comments and suggestions. The aim is to boost traffic during quiet periods and to use this exposure to sell memberships. We have over 2 million people living within our catchment area, of whom maybe 10,000 are members of golf clubs.


https://twilightgolfclub.weebly.com/


TIA

Jonathan Mallard

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 04:47:26 PM »
Everything looks great until one realizes that the cost of the official handicap costs more than 6 event entries.


So if you're trying to entice folks that otherwise don't play to come out once a month, you're essentially fine printing them that to win anything, it's twice the headline cost.

Tim Martin

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 05:49:29 PM »
Seems like a nice way to bring more people to the game that don’t have the time or inclination for 18 holes during the day. I am in awe of the regular membership rates for an Alister MacKenzie golf course with that kind of history and pedigree. Good luck with the venture.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 05:53:13 PM by Tim Martin »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 06:12:19 PM »
Duncan, hello to you. I love your course so folks should be lining up to play it. The resort, where I live, has had decreasing play as well. Ten years ago we averaged 22,000 rounds a year. Last year is we were down to 15,000. As low as that is, it is about 1000 rounds more than the previous year. One of the things we did was initiate 9 hole leagues. It got people to the course who have never been there. Many returned and brought friends.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Peter Pallotta

Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 06:56:19 PM »
All the best with this, Duncan. A fine idea; if I lived there I would be your 'target audience'. So I offer some comments from that perspective, but I limit them to only what you've actually *written*, i.e. I believe the idea is sound and will be appealing to many, but I think you may be a version or two away from the final presentation/form.

I think you are casting a wide net (re potential participants), and that's fine -- but after a strong opening page and the 'find out more' button, as the text is currently written and organized the reader gets a lot of messages (and I think *mixed* messages) in one big burst:

You write "competitive" twice in the first paragraph, "keen" in the 2nd, but then immediately afterwards note that twilight golf is "open to everyone;  seasoned golfers, complete novices, and occasional players alike."

Well, I have a feeling that, after reading those first few sentences: a) the complete novice will likely feel that he will be way out of his element with so many keen golfers around -- and so think twice about joining, and b) the keen golfers will likely feel that the competition will be diluted and the amount of time required to play lengthened with so many novices knocking about -- and so will also think twice about joining.

Okay, next point: It is only now, on the 3rd page, that Reddish Vale is mentioned and it's quality and pedigree as a Dr Mac design touted, which I think too late.  But it's the next page, I think, that is more problematic and requires a re-write/re-think:

In my view, any casual or novice golfer/beginner will have their eyes glaze over and will stop reading (and contemplating joining) when they get to this:

"All events are full qualifying competitions for handicap purposes, enabling members to maintain official CONGU handicaps.*  Holders of CONGU handicaps from other golf clubs will have their records updated automatically. Players without CONGU handicaps are welcome to play in events but cannot win a prize. Players can choose which set of tees they play from. In accordance with CONGU rules the computer system will make the appropriate calculations to ensure a level playing field between competitors playing from different tees. We suggest that inexperienced golfers use the red tees initially for maximum enjoyment and in the interests of pace of play."

I don't say this lightly (as i know how hard re-writes can be), but I would suggest that you ask yourself *why* you need that section at all, and that you consider deleting it. Any keen golfer who already maintains a handicap will know/surmise all of it already (and so doesn't have to read it here); and any novice or casual golfer who doesn't maintain a handicap will have no idea what you're talking about and will only have his first impressions -- i.e. that this isn't the place for him/her, as it is filled with much better and more competitive golfers  -- confirmed.

The last two pages are fine.

In short, Duncan (and I hope you don't take any of this amiss, as it's just my first impressions): I think the key, in the next draft, is to *simplify*.

You have a very good idea and one that I think will resonate with many; and you have a catchy first page/slogan; and you have a very well regarded golf course.  Focus on that, especially right off the top. And then maybe 'split' the ensuing pages -- what i mean is: write a short few lines and details to further promote the idea and the welcoming attitude specifically aimed at the novice/occasional golfers...and let it have its own *separate* link/tab/button, you know "For Novice and Casual Golfers". 

And then have *another* link/tab/button "For Keen Golfers" (or some such phrase) and put all the CONGU details and rules *there* (and nowhere else).

Excuse the ramble; I didn't do very well at simplifying my *own* thoughts! I hope there is at least something there that you find of use

Peter


     




 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 07:02:31 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Peter Pallotta

Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 07:32:17 PM »
If you don't mind, Duncan, one potential revised approach (which I don't mean to suggest is best, but just food for thought):

PAGE ONE:

A game of golf needn't take all day -- or even half a day!

When the spring arrives and the evenings get longer, what could be better than a round of golf and a pint in good company on the way home from work -- all within a couple of hours?

Indulge yourself -- and consider becoming a part of Reddish Vale's "Twilight Golf Club", where you really can do a full day's work, maintain a happy home life, and *still* get your welcomed golf fix. 

Reddish Vale Golf Club in Stockport is designed by legendary architect Dr Alister MacKenzie, and is consistently ranked among the top 10% of all golf courses in the UK.

PAGE TWO:

The Twilight Golf Club offers a full golfing experience perfect for anyone who struggles to find the time to play golf as often as they would like due to work and family commitments.

Our regular 9-hole evening competitions can be completed after work in little more than the time taken to go to the gym or to attend a football or rugby training session.

Membership in the "Twilight Golf Club" is absolutely free and open to everyone: seasoned golfers, complete novices, and occasional players alike.

And Reddish Vale is easily accessible -- just a few minutes from the M60 motorway, particularly convenient for those working in central Manchester, and less than 6 miles from Piccadilly.

PAGE THREE

​"Twilight Golf Club" events are held throughout the season from mid-April until September, with flexible starting times between 4pm and 7.30pm. We vary the days of the week on which we play, in order to give ample opportunity for everyone to participate.

For more information on this opportunity to find the time to learn the game, or to enjoy more often the game you already love, click on one of the following:

"FOR NOVICE GOLFERS"  (and then this leads to information targeted to them, including the sign up sheets etc)

"FOR KEEN GOLFERS" (and here is where the CONGU and other details go, and then the sign up sheets etc) 

(This split would also let you offer, if you wanted, two/split schedules -- ie certain evenings for novices, and other evenings for keen golfers)

Again, Duncan, just something to knock about in your head. As the old saying goes (though I've never learned the lesson very well): all good writing is *re-writing*.

Best
Peter
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 10:53:16 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 01:42:31 AM »
Peter,


Thank you so much for your thoughts. This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for.


I am convincd that the idea is a sound one; the presentaton is very much a work in progress.


The current draft was done as much to sell the idea to the club committee as anything else. I agree totally that simplification is needed.


I shall work on it this evening.

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 02:05:01 AM »
Everything looks great until one realizes that the cost of the official handicap costs more than 6 event entries.


So if you're trying to entice folks that otherwise don't play to come out once a month, you're essentially fine printing them that to win anything, it's twice the headline cost.


But to obtain a handicap in the UK, you must be a member of a recognised golf club. That isn't going to change any time soon.


If we didn't insist on official handicaps, the whole venture would fail the credibility test and never get off the ground.


So what we are doing is offering a route to an official handicap for as little as £112. ( 3 x £10 + £82) Another £112 per year would keep it active. That is by far the cheapest means of acquiring a handicap that I have seen. Once a player has a handicap they can participate in open competitions at any golf club.

Many occasional golfers would love to have an official handicap but cannot justify the cost of club membership required to obtain and maintain one.

I see this opportunity as a positive selling point of the scheme. Of course, the intention is to upsell later once we have them on the hook.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:14:26 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Sean_A

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 03:34:12 AM »
Duncan

There used to be a scheme the golf union offered to obtain a handicap without membership.  I think the union dropped it when they realized they were not doing their member clubs a service by offering an opt of membership card, but still get some of the benefits of membership.  Are you sure this scheme is a good gateway into club membership?  It seems to me that its a good way to remain a vagabond golfer.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 03:48:18 AM »

But Sean,


more and more people are wanting to be nomadic and many (not all) golf clubs will have to look seriously at this market and how to tap it. I do not know about the EGU but I would not take any notice of what the SGU does up here as much is just plain bad practice. Another stunner this week with the appointment of a new top man who was at the SFA but left suddenly. They really do not learn as having had one disastrous head in the form of a man who would rather be in tennis now they have another who would rather be in football.


Duncan,


It is a great idea if the target market really want it. Will an official handicap be worth paying £112 for to many of them? Would your members pay that? Remember membership is seen as paying for the access to the course, clubhouse and for some competitions. Most members see the handicap as been free or at the most part of the Union dues.


Jon

Sean_A

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 04:23:49 AM »

But Sean,


more and more people are wanting to be nomadic and many (not all) golf clubs will have to look seriously at this market and how to tap it. I do not know about the EGU but I would not take any notice of what the SGU does up here as much is just plain bad practice. Another stunner this week with the appointment of a new top man who was at the SFA but left suddenly. They really do not learn as having had one disastrous head in the form of a man who would rather be in tennis now they have another who would rather be in football.


Duncan,


It is a great idea if the target market really want it. Will an official handicap be worth paying £112 for to many of them? Would your members pay that? Remember membership is seen as paying for the access to the course, clubhouse and for some competitions. Most members see the handicap as been free or at the most part of the Union dues.


Jon


Jon


As I say...offering a system which encourages vagabond golf doesn't strike me as a great idea for membership recruitment.  That said, perhaps if Associate Membership wasn't required unless the golfer wanted a handicap, thus the £82.50 isn't due until entering the 4th event. And/or, if the cost of Associate Membership was applied toward full membership should the prospective member choose to join. 


A key aspect of a scheme like this is to pepper the events with members to act as recruiting agents just by being friendly etc.  Get the Captain etc involved. Treat this as a full on membership drive rather than merely boot slamming cheap golf.   


You could also create a table of merit and offer prizes...maybe the winner wins free Associate Membership.   


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 04:25:51 AM »
Jon,


The £112 doesn't buy access to the course. It is a pay and play membership costing £15 a round.


The category I really want to push is our Off Peak membership. This costs £399 pa for unlimited golf in the late afternoon when the course is quiet. We could sell 100 of these without adversely affecting the existing members.


Putting on events specifically for these golfers will generate a lot of interest IMO

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 04:27:23 AM »
Sean,


This is exactly what I have in mind.

Thomas Dai

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 07:30:25 AM »
Good luck with taking this forward Duncan.
One small detail, there may be tax/vat implications - the 'members' vrs 'visitors' debate - not just on the income generated by 'outsiders' playing in these events but also on any food/beverages they consume. Whilst this is not something that kicks the scheme into touch it is something to be aware of so I suggest any relevant £ generated is kept in separate pots to permit appropriate tax/vat treatment.
atb 

William_G

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 08:58:02 AM »
my first thought is a Golf Simulator if you are too busy to play
It's all about the golf!

jeffwarne

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 11:27:50 AM »
If you don't have TIME to play golf...
lowering the cost isn't the answer.


some common sense could be


Those who say "lack of time" is the problem
could walk the course rather than walk on a treadmill or going to a gym.


Involve their kids in family golf, rater than a for profit "travel" sports team.
Have your kid play on a local youth sports team, and use the time and $$ saved by not travelling all over the place-to play golf WITH them.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 12:49:16 PM »
Everything looks great until one realizes that the cost of the official handicap costs more than 6 event entries.


So if you're trying to entice folks that otherwise don't play to come out once a month, you're essentially fine printing them that to win anything, it's twice the headline cost.


But to obtain a handicap in the UK, you must be a member of a recognised golf club. That isn't going to change any time soon.


If we didn't insist on official handicaps, the whole venture would fail the credibility test and never get off the ground.


So what we are doing is offering a route to an official handicap for as little as £112. ( 3 x £10 + £82) Another £112 per year would keep it active. That is by far the cheapest means of acquiring a handicap that I have seen. Once a player has a handicap they can participate in open competitions at any golf club.

Many occasional golfers would love to have an official handicap but cannot justify the cost of club membership required to obtain and maintain one.

I see this opportunity as a positive selling point of the scheme. Of course, the intention is to upsell later once we have them on the hook.
All your doing is showing people an even cheaper way to play golf::::: £3x 10 (they wont even need to that IN THE SECOND YEAR if they play in OPEN COMPETITIONS at other clubs....RV COLLECT £82 AND SHOW THE WORLD HOW TO PLAY CHEAP then someone will cut your £82 to £65 and another will do it for £39.....cue race to the bottom. STAND PROUD RV.


PRICING OF MEMBERSHIP is a fine balance, get it wrong one way and you create a mess. Our full membership was £1125 and we have one at £565 where you pay £10 per round...you get free range balls with the 1150, and some other perks but many see the £565 as a cheaper option and I have a lot of people that play 30-40 rounds that have done the maths...I BROKE MY OWN RULE  about 20-30x green fee equals a membership fee, this season the £10 has become £20 at the peak times..If you play 30 times a year a full membership must be better than the standard green fee (x30).


There are some good points about what your trying to do...I would go more £10 for 5 holes with a pint )1 HOUR or £20 for 13 holes with a pint ie 2 HOUR GOLF.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 02:23:02 PM »
Adrian,


I suspect that the hardcore vagabond is a lost cause, and certainly isn't the target market for this initiative.


The target markets are;


a.  30-50 year old professional men with families. They have a high income but also an expensive mortgage and often school fees to fund. They generally love golf and play with friends a few times a year, but  cannot justify to their wives the time or financial commitment of traditional golf club membership. The Victorian villas of South Manchester and the Heatons are literally crawling with thousands of these guys. They are on the doorstep of Reddish Vale yet few have even heard of the place. Get them in now on an Off-Peak membership deal and they will be full members once the kids get to 15 or so.


b.    Members of other golf clubs in South Manchester and Stockport who play on indifferent course which are mud baths in winter.




We perhaps need to tweak the pricing structure to attract the above but price out the hardcore cheapskate vagabond.


We are also planning special 9 hole events aimed at specific groups. For example, we will hold a rugby players open and invite the local rugby clubs to come along for a one-off evening as a promotion with a barbeque afterwards


Other groups might include;




Firemen and Paramedics
Local doctors and pharmacists
Tradesmen (a large proportion of our members are self-employed tradesmen)
Architects and Surveyors
Territorial Army
etc
etc


We probably won't even charge for events like this. It's not about a few quid in green fees - its about gathering data and selling memberships.






 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:52:58 PM by Duncan Cheslett »

BCowan

Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 02:52:56 PM »
PRICING OF MEMBERSHIP is a fine balance, get it wrong one way and you create a mess. Our full membership was £1125 and we have one at £565 where you pay £10 per round...you get free range balls with the 1150, and some other perks but many see the £565 as a cheaper option and I have a lot of people that play 30-40 rounds that have done the maths...I BROKE MY OWN RULE  about 20-30x green fee equals a membership fee, this season the £10 has become £20 at the peak times..If you play 30 times a year a full membership must be better than the standard green fee (x30).

Adrian,


Excellent post and I agree with u almost completely. One of the US courses I'm a member at has 700 single members at 1200 pounds a year, and maybe 50 donate for access types for 365 pounds. The donate for access pay 20-35 pounds per round on top of that depending on time of day. I converted everything to pounds.  I think your 565 is too high for entry, 365 pounds will get the current non committed to buy in. He then can take family vaca and not feel bad when he doesn't use course 3 times a week.


I applaud Duncan for being proactive but agree that he is devaluing RV too much imo. I wouldn't be happy if I was a full member.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 03:17:25 PM »
PRICING OF MEMBERSHIP is a fine balance, get it wrong one way and you create a mess. Our full membership was £1125 and we have one at £565 where you pay £10 per round...you get free range balls with the 1150, and some other perks but many see the £565 as a cheaper option and I have a lot of people that play 30-40 rounds that have done the maths...I BROKE MY OWN RULE  about 20-30x green fee equals a membership fee, this season the £10 has become £20 at the peak times..If you play 30 times a year a full membership must be better than the standard green fee (x30).

Adrian,


Excellent post and I agree with u almost completely. One of the US courses I'm a member at has 700 single members at 1200 pounds a year, and maybe 50 donate for access types for 365 pounds. The donate for access pay 20-35 pounds per round on top of that depending on time of day. I converted everything to pounds.  I think your 565 is too high for entry, 365 pounds will get the current non committed to buy in. He then can take family vaca and not feel bad when he doesn't use course 3 times a week.


I applaud Duncan for being proactive but agree that he is devaluing RV too much imo. I wouldn't be happy if I was a full member.



Ben-I was floored at the membership pricing. You can’t join my local municipal course as a resident for the price of full membership at Reddish Vale.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 03:52:38 PM »

Ben-I was floored at the membership pricing. You can’t join my local municipal course as a resident for the price of full membership at Reddish Vale.


The vast majority of golf clubs in the UK charge less than £1000 per year with no initiation for unlimited golf. Many are far cheaper. Reddish Vale's membership fees are probably about average.


Membership at Cheshire golf clubs has declined from 40,000 to 24,000 in the last ten years. That gives an indication of the problems facing golf clubs. Membership is cheap, but clubs are losing members. Green fees are in a downward spiral as clubs chase every penny just to meet the wage bill each week. Yet visitor numbers are also in decline.


Clearly the traditional golf club model is broken. To maintain a reasonable standard and to get good value for money golfers need to be playing at least twice a week. Yet most people can't spare the time to play 18 holes twice a week - so they don't join a golf club.


Hence The Twilight Golf Club...










 




Jon Wiggett

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 03:28:54 AM »

Duncan,


just to be clear, in my previous posts I was not saying I think the model is wrong but rather is it what the non-member golfer would want to buy into or more of what the club would prefer to sell? Hopefully it is both.



The fall from 40K down to 24K is not a price problem. It is a product problem in that many people no longer want the product many traditional golf clubs offer. Are you sure there is a market for the product? It might be attractive to you but then you are someone who like me finds the traditional membership model an attractive model which clearly is not the case for many.


ps. I would not join any organisation who allowed me to be defined as a 'vagabond'.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:31:29 AM by Jon Wiggett »

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 03:59:09 AM »
PRICING OF MEMBERSHIP is a fine balance, get it wrong one way and you create a mess. Our full membership was £1125 and we have one at £565 where you pay £10 per round...you get free range balls with the 1150, and some other perks but many see the £565 as a cheaper option and I have a lot of people that play 30-40 rounds that have done the maths...I BROKE MY OWN RULE  about 20-30x green fee equals a membership fee, this season the £10 has become £20 at the peak times..If you play 30 times a year a full membership must be better than the standard green fee (x30).

Adrian,


Excellent post and I agree with u almost completely. One of the US courses I'm a member at has 700 single members at 1200 pounds a year, and maybe 50 donate for access types for 365 pounds. The donate for access pay 20-35 pounds per round on top of that depending on time of day. I converted everything to pounds.  I think your 565 is too high for entry, 365 pounds will get the current non committed to buy in. He then can take family vaca and not feel bad when he doesn't use course 3 times a week.


I applaud Duncan for being proactive but agree that he is devaluing RV too much imo. I wouldn't be happy if I was a full member.

Yeah, we have a £335 level and £20 per round as well. The key is the balance and if someone plays 30 times per year THEY ABSOLUTELY MUST join as a full member, unless of course THEY  are foolish and join for £335 and play twice a week!
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 04:07:02 AM »
Jon,


The culture of most golf clubs revolves around 18 hole competitions at the weekend with maybe another 18 hole comp midweek.


In addition there will be a morning on which the seniors play an 18 hole game, and various roll - ups during normal working hours in the week, all of them 18 holes.


The culture of most golf clubs is therefore geared to members who can devote at least half a day at weekends and another half day during the week to their hobby.


People in 9-5 jobs with weekend family responsibities are excluded from the culture of most golf clubs. Sure, they can play a few holes by themselves after work during the summer but that does not justify the cost of membership.


The golf club model works well for many existing members, but the figures prove that it does not work for very many others.


I am merely asserting that the culture needs to be tweaked to appeal to younger guys living a modern lifestyle. It might not work,  but it's got to be worth a try.


The alternative for many golf clubs is a slow decline into bankruptcy.


If we could recruit 100 new members at Reddish Vale at £399 pa who could only play at unpopular times such as late afternoon 5 days a week it would net us an extra £40k each year without meeting any resistance whatsoever from our existing membership - all of whom by definition have bought into the traditional club culture.


No existing member is going to want to trade their entitlement to play in all competitions at weekends or on Wednesdays for a cheaper package which restricts play to summer evenings.


My aim is a new and almost entirely seperate club culture at times when the course is currently almost completely deserted other than the odd member playing a few practice holes.


As time goes by and an individual's circumstances change,  he may well choose to embrace the full membership model.


It is all about being all things to as many people as possible.


By the way, £40k per year would make all the difference between scraping by and being able to develop the club and build a reserve.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 04:29:49 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - Golf for busy people who don't have time to play golf.
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 04:26:11 AM »
The idea of providing animation for twilight 9-Hole golf is like offering the apple in the garden.


Enticing the daddy's onto the course and into the bar, who on returning will find they're banished from the garden, is good for bizness but bad for mums and kids.


Target the golfing mums, with creches and clowns for the kids, and you will unlock the gate to the garden.