YAS Links vs. Trump International Dubai - A battle for the top spot in the UAE

[David Davis]

As mentioned by Schulzie on his Top 100 Quest completed thread we were down in the UAE this last week. Tom Clasby and myself continued our trip by visiting a few other courses. The best of these was Trump International Dubai (Gil Hanse), which I learned form Adam Lawrence was not really a Trump course at all but they only licensed his name. No kidding. Well, they did one thing right and that was to bring in one of the top architects at this moment to put together the course. I hadn't honestly given it much hope once I heard it like every other course down that way was another real estate development however, I would admit to being very pleasantly surprised. While this thread might be a tough one to work out the aim is to give those interested a kind of side by side comparison between the two courses which for me vie for the best architecture work (from what I've seen and heard) in the UAE. You be the judge and let me know what you think. By the way YAS Links was designed by Kyle Philips and has enjoyed a Top 100 Ranking in Golf Magazine's 2017 listing.


Hole 1 - Yas Links


A decent drive to the left side leaves a short to mid iron approach into the green show below. Plenty of width as you can see, but Philips has put in some what I would call containment mounding style dunes which add to the visual and most likely help separate the holes for safety issues.









Hole 1 - Trump Dubai


Hanse has went with the short grass everywhere concept here emphasizing tremendous width but strategy based on angle of attack. The first fairway was even wide enough for us to hit.







Approach into the green

[David Davis]

Hole 2 - Yas Links


This holes is a 523 yds par 5. Off the tee it had a somewhat narrow feel and played into the wind in the afternoon. In the morning it was very reasonably reachable and Tom at age 65 had about 10 feet for eagle.








2nd Hole at Trump Dubai - 611 yds par 5 (I guess the tees we played were about 590 yds)


This is a solid 3 shot par 5 for all but the longest hitters. Please keep in mind there is quite some wind here as well and the course is playing very firm and fast.

[Thomas Dai]

Nice start David. A couple of questions if I may -

a) How do the grasses compare on the two courses?
b) Do you have to play 'air golf' flying the ball all the way onto the greens or can you land shots short of the putting surface and they will release forward?
atb

[Adam Lawrence]

Yas is all paspalum and I think Trump Dubai is a mixture of different bermudas.

[David Davis]

Nice start David. A couple of questions if I may -

a) How do the grasses compare on the two courses?
b) Do you have to play 'air golf' flying the ball all the way onto the greens or can you land shots short of the putting surface and they will release forward?
atb

Thomas,


Good questions. First of all all grasses are warm weather grasses so naturally they play different than what you are use to in the UK. Though admittedly some of the various new strains are becoming far more playable than the very sticky and catchy Bermuda grasses.


Adam was right, YAS is totally paspalum and Trump is a mix but don't ask me what mix as in the name of the different Bermuda strains.


Short answer is that both courses were playing firm and fast so yes you could play the ball short of the green. At YAS Links both the other guys hit their putters with pretty good success. For me it was too hard to judge so I used a rescue club most of the time and basically putted with it. Just messing around I tried an 8 iron like I would do back home to bump up a couple balls but that didn't work for me. The spin caught the balls and stopped it. I had better luck with a 4 iron but chose the rescue in the end. I found these shots around the green tricky at YAS Links.


At Trump Dubai everything was cut short to almost fringe height. Putter was easy to judge in comparison. Ball could be landed well short and chased up in the right circumstances. Chipped with a 7 iron and 8 iron a few times which also worked well allowing a little more variation in my mind. Also allowing higher hcp'ers the higher percentage option of putting.


Cheers,

[Thomas Dai]

Good questions. First of all all grasses are warm weather grasses so naturally they play different than what you are use to in the UK. Though admittedly some of the various new strains are becoming far more playable than the very sticky and catchy Bermuda grasses.
Adam was right, YAS is totally paspalum and Trump is a mix but don't ask me what mix as in the name of the different Bermuda strains.
Short answer is that both courses were playing firm and fast so yes you could play the ball short of the green. At YAS Links both the other guys hit their putters with pretty good success. For me it was too hard to judge so I used a rescue club most of the time and basically putted with it. Just messing around I tried an 8 iron like I would do back home to bump up a couple balls but that didn't work for me. The spin caught the balls and stopped it. I had better luck with a 4 iron but chose the rescue in the end. I found these shots around the green tricky at YAS Links.
At Trump Dubai everything was cut short to almost fringe height. Putter was easy to judge in comparison. Ball could be landed well short and chased up in the right circumstances. Chipped with a 7 iron and 8 iron a few times which also worked well allowing a little more variation in my mind. Also allowing higher hcp'ers the higher percentage option of putting.
Cheers,

Thanks David, just as I suspected and recollect. Firm and fast and the bump-n-run don't necessarily go together in the UAE.
Looking forward to the rest of your photo-tour comparison.
Great climate for golf in the winter. Bit more character building in the summer!
atb

[David Davis]

Hole 3 - Yas Links - 423 yds par 4


This solid par 4 rewards a drive taking on the left side yet there is plenty of room to the right. It played into the wind from the right side which made it feel slightly longer. That said none of us would be considered long hitters and we were all either on or around the green in two. To be fair, Clasby is actually a long hitter for his young age of 65-ish in my book.






We clearly had the Sunday pin. I hit 5 iron into this green in the afternoon and that back left pin is not to be messed with. The green is large however and there is also a bunker on the right side that both Schulzie and I found on one of our rounds leaving about an 80 ft bunker shot where long is gone.







Hole 3 at Trump Dubai - 217 yds par 3.







I found this hole playing tougher than it looks. Playing slightly into the breeze I pushed my slightly right just rolling off the right side but not into the bunker, granted that was semi short sided but the is a significant slope to climb which is tough to judge. At this stage I wasn't sure what the best play was yet and questionably chose for clipping a 60 deg wedge which bit too hard leaving 10 ft for par. The obvious play is middle of the green but to do so with a long iron or hybrid it requires taking on the water. I was not up to the task and would of loved another shot at this one. Incidentally really the only water to deal with on the entire course.

[David Davis]

Hole 4 YAS Links - 189 yds par 3


This was for all of us one of our favorite holes on the course. With a long narrowish green running diagonally left to right away from the line of play. The front and middle pins benefit from a clear Redan character at the front of this green. In the afternoon the wind had picked up and this pin was more accessible through the air while in the morning with little wind landing it short right and making use of the Redan portion of the green was much the better play.










Trump Dubai 4th Hole - 433 yds par 4


This hole was quite unique. With the slight tail wind both Clasby and I took on the drive and carry to the right side fairway. Playing slight uphill cutting the corner here with the waste area on the right felt like a worthy risk. End result left me with a 9 iron into this green. However we both loved the look and feel of this and the choices offered. Water was not in play unless you top it. (note I don't have the scorecard so the distances here are from the back tee) I guess this was playing around 400 yds for us.












This photo attempts to give an idea of this large two tiered back to front slopping green. Taken looking back down the green from the left side.

[David Davis]

YAS Links 5th Hole - 362 yds par 4


This slight dogleg left allows you to significantly cut the corner on your tee shot but visually looks as though you need to keep it right. The further left you are the better your angle of approach.















Trump Dubai 5th Hole - 224 yds par 3 (playing about 200 yds for us)


This was a great par 3 with a clear Redan characteristic. Firm and fast with a tail wind play right and watch the shot release and come around on this two tiered green.

[David Davis]

YAS Links 6th Hole - 430 yds par 4


This long par 4 also had a slight dogleg left in it. Playing slightly into the wind from the left we were approach with 5 irons.










Trump Dubai 6th hole - 410 yds


Another excellent long 4 played uphill to patch of fairway that ran out at about 285 yds.  With the wind behind and the firm fairway a solid drive will reward a short iron into this tricky green. The photo of the green is taken well to the right and 50 yds forward of where the approach would be played. Given it was significantly uphill this angle offered a much better view of the green.

[Thomas Dai]

Are the sandy areas 'all sand' at both courses or are there rocks and rocky outcrops within it?
atb

[David Davis]

Thomas,


I don't recall any rocks to speak of really at either. I hit myself into only a couple sand hazards and with one exception at YAS Links where I had a almost a vertical lie on the back side of a hill there were no issues and none with rocks.

[Adam Lawrence]

Yas is built almost entirely out of sand dredged from the sea -- Kyle got to design the actual coastline, which has surely to be a unique experience for a golf architect -- so I can't see any rocks there. Trump I haven't seen but the desert is not particularly rocky here.

[Derek_Duncan]

Hard to get a good sense of the actual contour from these photos but so far YAS is kicking its ass.

[David Davis]

Hard to get a good sense of the actual contour from these photos but so far YAS is kicking its ass.

Derek,


Both courses have a lot of contour, mainly it's the dune-like containment mounding used at YAS that adds to the visual I think. Why do you think YAS is kicking ass on the other. I'd be quite interested to hear your thoughts here.


In terms of the photos, other than the fact that I'm a rubbish photographer with my iPhone as I'm playing think about how difficult it is to get a feeling for a place like Augusta when you see it on TV or in the photos. I don't honestly know how to bring that out but these courses are anything but flat and without contour.


Anyone else agree/disagree with Derek?

[Sean_A]

DD

The courses "look" fairly similar in quality to me.  Maybe YAS looks a bit more interesting and maybe the greens are more adventurous, but it is hard to tell in the pix.  Neither course is calling to me to get on a plane. 

Ciao

[David Davis]

7th hole YAS Links - 507 yds par 5


This par 5 plays downwind and was reachable from our tees on the day. However the second shot was blind and up over a hill with a downslope and a bit of a kick plate to the green below which is well protected with slopes and fall offs.















7th hole Trump Dubai - 481 yds downhill par 4 playing into the wind.


This 4 wasn't as long as the card suggests even though it was into the wind. A solid drive into the fairway would leave a long iron or a rescue club into the green. I pulled my tee shot hard left into the hazard but had a perfect lie and managed to put my second shot on the front edge, the angle in was quite good from there and I luckily made solid contact. It's clear that a drive down the left side taking on the hazard will leave the best angle into this green.

[David Davis]

At this stage I would like to add for those that might not consider this point. These courses started with nothing basically, land with no contours at all so everything you see has been 100% created and shaped. Not the first time of course but credit goes to the shapers that worked here. In my mind an amazing task and accomplishment on both accounts. I've seen quite a few courses that started with blank canvases but few that have such a high quality of overall shaping work.

[David Jones]

Thanks for these David. I've played Yas a couple of times and loved it. It is a phenomenal creation. I'm heading over to see the Trump course next week and this is whetting my appetite fantastically - much appreciated! 


A friend who played both recently said he though Yas just pipped Trump, Trump was a definite step up on Majlis though for him Looking forward to forming my opinion next week and keep 'em coming!

[David Davis]

DD

The courses "look" fairly similar in quality to me.  Maybe YAS looks a bit more interesting and maybe the greens are more adventurous, but it is hard to tell in the pix.  Neither course is calling to me to get on a plane. 

Ciao

Sean,


They may look similar but I assure you that they play nothing alike as far as I'm concerned. That may be partially because of all the short grass at Trump but also the grasses are hugely different as Adam already pointed out. There is also a way different feel to the shaping as well as the strategy and how the angles are used. Something else that's hard to see is how much elevation change there is at Trump. That alone makes the courses not feel similar at all. To me YAS feels and plays like a very high end Polder course from The Netherlands. Given it's all on reclaimed land. I'd be almost amazed if the Dutch didn't have something to do with it, though I don't know the answer to that.


Ciao

[David Davis]

Thanks for these David. I've played Yas a couple of times and loved it. It is a phenomenal creation. I'm heading over to see the Trump course next week and this is whetting my appetite fantastically - much appreciated! 


A friend who played both recently said he though Yas just pipped Trump, Trump was a definite step up on Majlis though for him Looking forward to forming my opinion next week and keep 'em coming!

David, have fun and try to play more than once if you can. Always helps to improve your feel for a course. One other point, both these courses are made to be walkable, especially this time of year but they just as a standard set up everyone with carts.


I'll be curious what you think, please come back and let us know.

[Adam Lawrence]

David, have fun and try to play more than once if you can. Always helps to improve your feel for a course. One other point, both these courses are made to be walkable, especially this time of year but they just as a standard set up everyone with carts.




I haven't seen Trump, but Yas is a great walk if it's not too hot. In particular, the back tee of the fourteenth hole is literally one step off the back of the thirteenth green -- I really love that feature.


Dana Fry is currently building the second course on Yas Island.

[David Davis]

YAS Links 8th hole - 174 yds par 3


This medium one-shotter was quite fun to play, wind was left to right, some nice shaping on and around the green and as you can see in the photo one of the first times where grain had a significant role for me. This pin position was in a funky spot on the raised back level and this putt looks mild but had a crazy amount of break in it including the speed change due to the grain.













Trump 8th hole - 343 yds though our tees were playing about 310


This uphill short and drivable 4 was a blast to play take your pick of which club to play, not drivable for us on the day as it was playing into a cross wind from the left. This one is really about trying to pick the distance of your approach that you like. It was a tricky uphill approach to a raised green that sloped heavily back to front.

[David Jones]

Thanks for these David. I've played Yas a couple of times and loved it. It is a phenomenal creation. I'm heading over to see the Trump course next week and this is whetting my appetite fantastically - much appreciated! 


A friend who played both recently said he though Yas just pipped Trump, Trump was a definite step up on Majlis though for him Looking forward to forming my opinion next week and keep 'em coming!

David, have fun and try to play more than once if you can. Always helps to improve your feel for a course. One other point, both these courses are made to be walkable, especially this time of year but they just as a standard set up everyone with carts.


I'll be curious what you think, please come back and let us know.

Thanks David.  My experience walking Yas last year inspired me to write this - [size=78%]http://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/the-trials-of-a-walking-golfer[/size] . There was some shock on their faces when we said we were planning to walk!


I think I’m only going to manage one round at Trump but will definitely do it on foot. Thanks again for the thread, really looking forward to it.

[David Jones]

Dana Fry is currently building the second course on Yas Island.

Great. Another really quality track there would be good as a companion to Yas rather than having to head to Dubai.